Wizard MAGIC STAFF: Phoenix, Sea, Stone & Wind (+new spells)

[lestodante]

A little update on this post, almost 1 year and a half old now and is still WIP.
My goal here is to create 3 additional spells (level 2) for each of the elemental groups. Please note the one described at page 1 where at an early stage, I developed them in Italian language first to be sure the text will match the translation too (Italian words are way longer than English ones).
Created 3 more spells for each Darkness, Protection and Detection group.
As previously discussed for the Tyrant's Tomb questpack I split the 8 Elf spells in 3 groups, Time, Nature and Illusion (adding an extra 1 to match a total of 9) and created 3 new ones for each group, so the Elf will also have Level 2 spells now.
Together with the special staffs I created new Magical Skill cards that allow you to use the level 2 spells for one quest only or potions that allow the wizard or the elf to acquire a temporary knowledge of the extra spells or even to mix the groups together. There is a lot of stuff in developing, still waiting for some of the images and also "virtually testing" them trying to avoid smart players to be able to combine skills, spells and special artifacts all together to create some sort of loop where they can use the same spell as many times as they want.
I love the Wizard Hero and trying to make him more enjoyable for the players without overpowering him.
At the same time, Hero Skills are also in developing and will be available for ALL Heroes, including the Wizard.
Below some more samples, Earth and Darkness spells, Level 2.
I will update the images with English text as soon as I can (any help with the translation will be much appreciated).

[iKarith]

Warning, incoming rant…
Warning, incoming rant…



I don't think the stone staff is too powerful. Used to be I would have, but then again I'd played the dwarf or the elf, preferring the elf who's got some healing magic and can carry his own in a fight.

If anything, I used to think the wizard having Genie was unbalanced. A chance to attack with five CD in every game? That's so overpowered! To attack once. ONCE.

Ball of Flame is literally not much different than the basic attack of any other player. And he can use it exactly ONCE. Yes, a straight 1/3 odds of hitting. each time (which makes your odds of hitting at least once about 5/9 or a bit over 55%. The odds of anyone doing two CD attacks (so everyone else) is around 80% of hitting. The difference is that even the lowly goblin can defend. Of course, the wizard can do this devastating attack ONCE.

The other attach is the iconic FAR OF ROTH! … which is also used ONCE and … is only half of a ball of flame.

That's it.

Well, that means 1/3 of the time the wizard can take out even the most powerful enemies in the … Oh. UK rules. By US rules, the wizard … yeah.

But what about all that fine support magic? Courage! Yeah, didn't EVEN get to use it once because Kurgan had two extra-tough Chaos Warriors both retreat from behind the narrow corridors to exhaust the spell so that it literally was wasted. And evil wizard is likely to do the same. Useless.

Rock skin? The moment you cast that, the evil wizard is going to ensure you hit a trap and lose it immediately, if you're playing with any sort of threat cards (and we were—I realize this is not part of the base game, but it's pretty typical for people here to be using them, and its understandable why—gives Morcar something to actually DO on his turns. (And odds are your elf has it anyway, since if you're not an idiot as the wizard you took fire, he likely takes earth.

Courage … if you're playing with a Morcar who decides he will tell monsters who cannot see the wizard or what the wizard has cast, what its weakness is, and for all stronger-than-normal monsters to move deliberately just outside of seeing for just long enough to cancel the spell, then rush back in and attack once it's gone …

Sleep? That was pretty useful. But it doesn't work on nearly half the critters in the game because it's been 'balanced".

Veilf of Mist? Not useful for the wizard himself because moving unseen past monsters really just means that a monster can't block your space.

Tempest will cause one monster to miss a turn. Cool. Guess it's useful if you intend to miss a turn and use the chance to GTFO. Maybe if your barbarian isn't acting like an elf, that might give him a chance to take a couple extra swings at something big to even the odds a little. But since you have no real chance at fighting, it's kinda your chance at getting away from something that's deliberately aiming for the wizard because he's weaker than the other players… Swift wind is much the same … you kinda want that when you need to move. Again, useful only once.

And Water of Healing or Heal Body is kinda wasted on yourself … Much better used on the barbarian after he's taken some hits (again, assuming he's not hanging back in the first two rooms) … but you'll have one and the elf the other. Use it wisely I guess.

Basically the wizard's not great in UK rules, but he'll do. Under US rules where most things take 2-4 rounds to kill, he's got three attacks that aren't 1 CD against monsters who are not often able to kill YOU in one hit, rather than the other way around.

The tactic I don't like of forming up the party outside a door and then having the barbarian open and block it while the rest of the party takes diagonal attacks from safety … the wizard's pathetic nature pretty much forces that play style.

SO, I'm interested in seeing the wizard get some chance to actually belong there. His attack should BE magic, maybe have a little lower chance of hitting, but be harder to block when it does. Perhaps he starts with a more limited Fire of Wrath that works only on the 8 squares around him. 5-6 is a hit, black shield on 1CD defends … maybe some monsters have less defense against fire (mummies are enbalmed with and then wrapped in flammable … yeah.) But that is his attack, and he hasn't got another weapon to start. No limit on using it … Maybe he's got a once-per-quest ability that comes from his magic or his starting equipment? Hmm…

Maybe he can use single-handed weapons? But hasn't the strength for two-handed, and they'd impede using magic. Same for certain heavy armors. Needs to find, buy, or make artifacts to increase his magical abilities. Maybe these are just a better use of his money than weapons and armor.

With adventuring and artifacts/equipment found, bought, or made … he could be the match for any quest's big bad if he plays strategically. But maybe he's a gotta make sure to keep his BP up so he can make it that far.

[Davane]

Nice rant iKarith. Just one thing though, check the wording on the Courage spell.

I'm pretty sure that the "you" being referred to is the player, and it's supposed to last as long as Morcar has activated monsters on the board, so that Morcar can't just dispel it by moving figures around the corner or something.

That's how I run the spell, at least...

I know it can be exploited - for example, leaving a slow monster alive and active, so Courage works for the next battle, but for me, this is no different than the Barbarian just kicking down the door of the next room full of monsters rather than finishing off the ones they are currently facing...

[Kurgan]

Courage is worded differently in the different versions (in addition to the differences in understanding of spell targeting in the different rulesets). The thread discussing the different interpretations (of which the EU version lends a lot more) could make it a lot more powerful. I have always taken a strict interpretation of the NA card as written for my games, but I again, extend the house rule olive branch to the players that they can use their movement to get some monsters back into LOS to (hopefully) prolong the spell if done on the same turn.

[lestodante]

All the three Fire spells, Rock Skin, and also Sleep are very different in the two releases.
I like more the European than the US version.

[Kurgan]

Not to get too far off topic (and I'm only speaking of EU 2nd edition here, I don't have access to 1st ed cards)...


...but Ball of Flame/Fire of Wrath would be weaker in the EU version if we read "shields" as "any kind of shield" as opposed to just Black (monster) Shield (which would then make them stronger). So 50% chance of them each being deflected vs. 33% chance.

Of course there was never any need for a two body point attack in the EU until ATOH introduced multiple body point monsters... unless you were trying to deathmatch your allies, that is (perfectly possible in the EU edition!).

Sleep is an interesting one I had never really thought too much about. You're right, initially the Monster has an easier chance getting out of it (if we interpret "shield" as any shield... so 33% instead of 1 in 6, for each Mind Point) but on the next one he has to roll a six (so using a red die now only once, if I'm reading that right) "or if attacked" meaning the "free damage to the monster" doesn't keep on going, you have one chance to kill him without him having a chance to retaliate. Though it doesn't say "if attacked he gets to defend" it just says he awakes. Do you interpret that as the monster never gets another chance to wake up (with the red die)? Then it's better for the Heroes to just leave him asleep instead of attacking because if they miss...

Weaker spells against weaker monsters... or stronger spells against stronger monsters.

In some ways the EU is easier, in other ways its harder! With the few EU spells that are stronger, I made those "champion" level spells in my upgrade system for the Wizard/Elf in my NA base.

[Kurgan]

But back on topic, can we agree that cool wizard staffs (staves?) are cool? I like them, especially the artwork! The idea of inserting a device into the Wizard's staff to give it a new power is an awesome idea I plan to use also.

Many are agreeing that they want the Wizard to have more options an that's a great way to do it!

[lestodante]

Ok... so plural of staff is STAVES? I didn't know!
Also planning to create the artifact card "Mana Stones": the wizard can bring a certain number of mana stones and when he use a spell 2 or 3 mana stones are gone instead of discarding the spell itself. He can then buy new mana stones through quests. Stronger spells will absorb more stones.
There will be some tokens (as the SKy Orb) which must be discarded once used. The Wizard Hero will not be able to chose when to use the stones or not, this should avoid him to save them for his favourite spell only; they will be used automatically whenever a spell is cast.
On the other side, the Evil Wizard player will get some Chaos Tokens (which are NOT the spells from Against the Hogre Horde): he can spend some tokens to avoid certain situations, like a boss being killed at first attack or to power up a monster or regain life points and so on.

[iKarith]

Nice rant iKarith. Just one thing though, check the wording on the Courage spell.

I'm pretty sure that the "you" being referred to is the player, and it's supposed to last as long as Morcar has activated monsters on the board, so that Morcar can't just dispel it by moving figures around the corner or something.

That's how I run the spell, at least...

I know it can be exploited - for example, leaving a slow monster alive and active, so Courage works for the next battle, but for me, this is no different than the Barbarian just kicking down the door of the next room full of monsters rather than finishing off the ones they are currently facing...

The spell is broken the moment the hero can no longer "see" a monster.

Does that mean have direct line of sight or the moment one is no longer visible? I continue to contend that there are two kinds of visibility in the game, but others have disputed that.

[lestodante]

If anything, I used to think the wizard having Genie was unbalanced. A chance to attack with five CD in every game? That's so overpowered! To attack once. ONCE.

Ball of Flame is literally not much different than the basic attack of any other player. And he can use it exactly ONCE. Yes, a straight 1/3 odds of hitting. each time (which makes your odds of hitting at least once about 5/9 or a bit over 55%. The odds of anyone doing two CD attacks (so everyone else) is around 80% of hitting. The difference is that even the lowly goblin can defend. Of course, the wizard can do this devastating attack ONCE.

The other attach is the iconic FAR OF ROTH! … which is also used ONCE and … is only half of a ball of flame.

Genie, is the only powerful attack a Wizard can use and only once. I don't see it unbalanced, it is like saving a great power to unleash it against a great monster! I think it works fine.
Ball of Flame is very different from a standard attack, try to figure a Wizard casting it against a Ogre: with a standard attack the Ogre can roll 5 or 6 dice to defend but against BoF only 2.
Fire of Wrath has half the power of Ball of Flame but, in the Eur version (can't understand why they removed this very cool feature in the US version) it can seek and hit the target anywhere on the board!