Armour pricing help

[Templar]

I'm having trouble pinpointing fair prices for my home made armour pieces. Comparing prices with existing armour parts only goes so far...If you have the time to give me an approximation of how much an armour piece is worth, I would be very grateful.

For instance, here are my body armours:

Body Armour.JPG

Some of you will think that this is too many or too advanced rules for HeroQuest, and you will probably be right...but I still would like to try these with my gaming group.

Here are my current prices:
Leather Armour - 250 g
Chain Mail - 450 g (normal cost of course)
Gladiator Cuirass - 600 g
Breast Plate - 900 g (Changed from basic card)
Full Armour Suit - 1300 g

Does this seem OK? Not so good? Bad? I'm all ears

[Maike05]

when I come up with new item for the armory, i usually set up a pricing system. For example 1 attack/defense dice = 100 gold. Amy additional features such as diagonal attack or résistance against magic would increase the price by another 100... Etc. Try o be consistant with the rest f your pricing list and the rest will come naturally.

[chaoticprime]

If you are interested in historically accurate names for your items, the "gladiator cuirass" was called a "heroic cuirass," "chain mail" a "mail hauberk," and "full armour suit" a "plate harness." You could also call the "breast plate" a "plate corslet."

[Count Mohawk]

In your system, how many dice do unarmored Heroes roll for defense? If it's two, then why does your leather armor exist? If it's one, do the Heroes' start with anything?

In general, though, I tend to price armory products on the higher end, but 250 for leather, 450/500 for chain and 600 for the cuirass seem about right. You buffed the plate a little, on average, so 900 is probably fine for that although I would probably make it an even 1,000. And I would go 1,500 for the full-body stuff. Moving slowly bites, but it's hard to overstate the effect rolling six or seven defense dice (depending on shield use) will have on your Heroes' longevity. Incidentally, the longer your ideal HQ campaign is, the more expensive stuff should be to help combat the 'too much gold' syndrome that pops up after a while - particularly if you have an expanded weaponry list!

[Sjeng]

Hi Mohawk! Welcome to the Inn, have a look at the guest book, so you can properly introduce yourself

[Templar]

For example 1 attack/defense dice = 100 gold. Amy additional features such as diagonal attack or résistance against magic would increase the price by another 100... Etc.

This is probably the way to go, but since my additional features vary SOO much (stupid brain that comes up with too advanced ideas ) I'm not sure how fair the prices would be...

If you are interested in historically accurate names for your items, the "gladiator cuirass" was called a "heroic cuirass," "chain mail" a "mail hauberk," and "full armour suit" a "plate harness." You could also call the "breast plate" a "plate corslet."

I am interested, but only in swedish I'm afraid...Im translating the cards roughly for you guys to see and possibly use. But if I make a pure english version some day, I will be very interested in these names.

In your system, how many dice do unarmored Heroes roll for defense? If it's two, then why does your leather armor exist? If it's one, do the Heroes' start with anything?

In general, though, I tend to price armory products on the higher end, but 250 for leather, 450/500 for chain and 600 for the cuirass seem about right. You buffed the plate a little, on average, so 900 is probably fine for that although I would probably make it an even 1,000. And I would go 1,500 for the full-body stuff. Moving slowly bites, but it's hard to overstate the effect rolling six or seven defense dice (depending on shield use) will have on your Heroes' longevity. Incidentally, the longer your ideal HQ campaign is, the more expensive stuff should be to help combat the 'too much gold' syndrome that pops up after a while - particularly if you have an expanded weaponry list!

Note taken. As for the leather armour, some of my heroes starts with only one defence die, and after their first quest they need to boost their defences quick! I have the leather armour, and also a shield and a cape for this purpose
As for unarmored heroes, I hav not really thought about it...In the swedish version the heroes start with weapons and armóur accounted for in their profile, and there is no way they can loose those. However, I am (like most people probably) pondering on an escape-type quest, where the heroes has been disarmed...I'm guessing 1 or 0 ad/dd depending on class would be appropriate.
Also, as Sjeng said, welcome to the inn

[torilen]

Some of what I'm going to say here is common-sense, but I'm going to say it anyhow - just in case.

It is important to keep prices for things "fair", but there are a few other things you can use to help
with that, since you're doing this with only your game group (it would be a lot different if you were
putting this out for everyone to use, for example):

1 - you can always tailor the amount of treasure given out, so that the items are easier or harder to
get, and this can be done from quest to quest, so it would be easy to control.

2 - you can always tailor the monsters encountered, so that if you have made it too easy for your heroes
to get a hold of certain items (powerful armor/weapons), you can simply make your monsters easier or
harder to kill in the future...just keep notes of what you changed so it stays consistent. You can also
create ways to rid your players of these items - acid it always a good one (black dragon, anyone?). Theft
works, if you can make it believable. If it is magic that is your problem...anti-magic zones or something
that zaps the magic in certain items. The big thing here - KEEP NOTES, so that everything stays consistent
and on point for future games.

3 - try to keep the pricing comparable across the board. It would seem really silly to have an armor cost 1000 gold
coins, when some ring or amulet which offers the same defense dice is only 500 gold. In fact, any small object
that replaces attack or defense would certainly be more expensive, as they normal stack on top of the dice offered
by weapons and armor. Any special abilities, try to give those comparable pricing:
- disarm and/or find traps
- pick locks
- hear/see monsters without them hearing/seeing you
- climbing/swimming/jumping/running/etc. better than others
- casting spells/healing/hurting/etc.
Try to judge how playable these abilities would be in your games...and don't look at just a game or two, try to look at
your overall campaign, where you will be taking the game in the near future and far future. If an ability is seldom used,
but you want to offer it, make it cheap. If it is used a lot, or offers multiple players the ability in the future, make it more
expensive. If only one hero will be making use of, but it will make them shine more often now, make it more expensive.
If only one hero will be making use of it (or can make use of it), and it will actually put them in the spotlight as much as
other heroes in the future because of it, make it cheaper.

4 - Always keep your world economies in mind. This will be a little harder, as they might not come up as much, especially in
hero quest, but it is important. Prices will change from town to town, based on availability, and this must always be taken
into consideration if you do even the smallest amount of "role playing". You may even sometimes have to give thought as to
why something are more expensive or cheaper, even if your heroes will never find out why. Why is that pieces of armor more
expensive - they only have one blacksmith instead of two or three...BUT wooden/string weapons (bows) will be cheaper as you
have a lot of wood-crafters in the area. Wonder why magic based on water and air is cheaper here - because it is a town set on
the edge of a river near the top of a hillside, with a lake just to the west.
Even if you don't really role-play - the economy would still come into play. Even the lowliest mercenary and town guard use weapons
and armor...why would they not have access to a long sword and plate mail if they are very cheap? Why wouldn't goblins run around
with battle axes if they're a dime a dozen?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's all I've got for now. If I think of anything other pointers, I'll post them. Good luck - believe me, pricing is one of the hardest
things I do. Especially when you get away from the "board game items" and get more into the "role playing items" - like clothing
and horses, canoes, and meals at the local tavern. UHG. I hate that stuff.

[Templar]

Thank you for this write up torilen. All good advice there
Especially regarding quest to quest pricing...I gather that what I'm actually looking for is prices for these items that I would have as basis for modification, depending on the quest. I.e. what the community here think is a balanced cost.

I honestly had not thought about acid as ameans to rid players of their armour...even though I've played a LOT of Heroes III over the years. I do have a kind'a theft thing between two quests though, but this is more due to the following quest being a sort of infiltratory voluntary kidnapping

...

Here are my helmets:
EDIT: this is important to know for the gladiator helmet!
Metaphysical attacks are defended against by rolling normal dice per intelligence points. If a six is rolled, the whole attack is ignored.
Ockult attacks makes the target lose mind points instead of body points.
Psycic attacks are both ockult and metaphysical.

Helmets.JPG

I have set the helmet cost to 125 (nearest price divided by 25 from standard) and the storming cap to 175. From there I am at a loss. I would approximate the prices to
Gorer - around 300
Gladiator helmet - around 350
Barrel helm - 450?
Close helm - 650
Wizard's mask - 750??

[Count Mohawk]

I find it hilarious that you spelled "metaphysical" correctly, but missed on "occult" and "psychic". Unless those were purposeful misspellings...

Well, if the helmet is 125 and the storming cap is 175, the gorer should be something like 350 because it has the potential to give you an extra attack, albeit only at 1 power and only once per room. By the way, if you're using the -1 move on many of these helmets as a balancing measure, I should point out that although it may be thematically appropriate (how much can one helmet weigh?), by itself it doesn't actually slow your Hero's pace down that much.
The gladiator helmet feels more like an artifact than an equipment with its current effect, or at least a 'lesser' artifact. I don't usually like putting 'magical' effects on common armory equipments, but if you choose to follow this route, 400 or 500 price seems appropriate.
The barrel helm is approximately equivalent to chain mail in terms of defense, so it should be priced around the same. 500 seems about right.
The close helmet, despite its multiple restrictions, is super strong and should not cost less than 800 no matter how cheap you want players' equipment to be. 1,000 may be more appropriate.
The wizard's mask is analogous to a gimpier set of Bracers. It should cost slightly less than they would; ie 200 or 250.

Some thoughts:
When you have the ability to greatly improve your statistics as seems to be the case in your system (current maximum is 8 defense before shields and artifacts), you don't want the prices of each intermediate step to be too close together, as savvy players will willingly play a few of the earlier, easier Quests with base-level armor so as to grind enough gold to pick up a high-class armor later, thus saving themselves the cost of the middle-level armor minus any extra healing potions they had to drink to survive on 2 defense dice during the interim. This strategy, fortunately, is less tenable if full-party death or Rust Fimir Apocalypse happens during a later Quest, as the Heroes will need the one or two extra dice to survive stronger monsters' attacks.
Also, what does Borin's Armor do in your ruleset? I ask because original-ruleset Borin's is 4 base Defend, which may or may not be preferable to 5 base and halved Move from the Full Armor Suit!

[Templar]

I find it hilarious that you spelled "metaphysical" correctly, but missed on "occult" and "psychic". Unless those were purposeful misspellings...

No, their genuine mistakes Most often I dont feel like going to google translate or wikipedia to find the correct spelling when in the middle of a good typing. When/if I compile everything in a final english version, I will of course check it again for errors...

if you're using the -1 move on many of these helmets as a balancing measure, I should point out that although it may be thematically appropriate (how much can one helmet weigh?), by itself it doesn't actually slow your Hero's pace down that much.

This is true. However, the avarage move goes down to 6, which is many dangerous monsters move rate. I hope this will make running away harder, when it comes to that. Also, combined with using a shield that also slows you one square, the impact on movement should at least hurt a little...
As a sidenote, I make my quests pretty darn tough to get through...I aim for around one hero death per quest, with two deaths not being uncommon

The wizard's mask is analogous to a gimpier set of Bracers. It should cost slightly less than they would; ie 200 or 250.

Yeah, sorry, that's one more mistake on these cards I'm afraid...appearantly I was more tired than I thought last night It should be THREE dice that defends on black shields. That makes it slightly better I have corrected it now

When you have the ability to greatly improve your statistics as seems to be the case in your system (current maximum is 8 defense before shields and artifacts), you don't want the prices of each intermediate step to be too close together, as savvy players will willingly play a few of the earlier, easier Quests with base-level armor so as to grind enough gold to pick up a high-class armor later...

So true. But how close together is too close? This is why I need some help with the pricing. Your comments have really helped with this, so thank you mohawk

Also, what does Borin's Armor do in your ruleset? I ask because original-ruleset Borin's is 4 base Defend, which may or may not be preferable to 5 base and halved Move from the Full Armor Suit!

Well, it gives you four dd without a movement penalty, so it would clearly be better. However, the primary use of my new armoury cards will be in my home made campaign rather than any of the basic ones. As the heroes start from scratch there, there will be no Borins Armour unless a quest is played seperatly and someone wants to use their base game character. In that case, I can't see why he/she should not be able to use it, but it's also just one player who gets it, so I don't think it matters much