Ye Olde Inn

I am in contact with some illustrators and asked them to paint some black&white scenes in the HQ style useful to create new cards to include in my new expansion pack.
I know this may be very dfferent, depending by each artist, but do you have any idea about what a honest price should be?
I am focusing on the style from the base set cards or from WoM cards, because the cards in the Barbarian and Elf packs are a bit different and in my opinion more detailed (=more expensive).

I would say anywhere between £5-£25 depending on the quality and complexity of the images.
Stuff like the images I've donated to the community, I would probably demand ~£10 per piece if they had been commission pieces. Maybe even as low as ~£5 per piece if the order was big enough - and the customer was satisfied with me not matching another artist style exactly, as that would take substantially more time to do.
£5 is extremely low for artwork of any kind though, and any lower the artist would be ripping himself off.

The rate (or the ability to obtain a discount) will likely depend on how you will use it. If you are a non-profit, posting freely on the internet, you may be able to get a much lower rate. Particularly if you do attribution, include a thank you and link to the artists business, and allow hm to retain copyright for any commercial uses, etc.

whitebeard wrote:If you are a non-profit, posting freely on the internet, you may be able to get a much lower rate. Particularly if you do attribution, include a thank you and link to the artists business, and allow him to retain copyright for any commercial uses, etc.

Oh my...!

Credits and "thank you" does not compensate the hours an artist puts into a piece. And quite frankly "exposure" through some nobody's hobby is worthless. It's like paying someone to paint your house, but expecting half price because people coming over will see what a good job he did.
Of course it matters what you are going to use the pieces for, but it's more like if you are a big business the price will go up. Not so much that you can get it for next to nothing just because you are using it for something non-profit. The artist still spent time creating the pieces.
In principle the artist doesn't care what a private person uses a piece for. Frame it or wipe your ass... Once the transaction is over; don't care.

I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but having taken lots of small artist jobs over the years, this kinda struck a nerve with me.
For some reason people think they can get artwork for free?! It's your hobby anyway, right? Yeah, it's my hobby to realize MY ideas and thoughts through art, not your ideas.

allow him to retain copyright for any commercial uses, etc.

It works the other way around actually. If you want exclusive rights to use a piece you are paying extra for that right.
Per default the artist owns the copyright to everything he creates. The customer just buys the right to ALSO use the artwork. It's not much different from those stockphoto sites.

I agree with Goblin-King here.
It's our hobby. Why don't we make our own art in the style we want? Ah yes, it's not that easy... So we gotta find somebody for whom it's doable.
And that limits options and thus raises the price. There's really not much any other factors regulating that price.

It's harsh, but that's how it is.
You could see the "Thank You" as advertisement, but how big is the target group of the product, really? Is it worth taking less direct payment?
It's a romantic thought, and there might be artists out there with whom we might get lucky.

And then there's the copyright, and GK is spot on in regards to that, too. There is no idealism or romaticism involved here.
The whole thing will be even more regulated in the future with bigger punishments for smaller transgressions...
I think there's no room for naivity here.

"Whom", twice in one post.

I agree with many points, but I often contacted several illustrators asking for artwork of different genres (miniatures, graphic..).
They always ask me the question: is it that for yourself or for the market?
Personally I hate this question because I am paying the talent and the time he will spent so as GK sayd he should not care about my purpose.
I also find an artist who did amazing drawing in 30 minutes with photoshop and he asked a lot of money for it, about 200 euros. Personally I work in an office and get payd about 10 euros for 1 hour of work taking on myself lot of responsabilities and feel a bit fooled when someone ask so much money for less than 1 hour of job. It happened the same with a blacksmith, he looked at my blocked door and sayd "I will take 100 euros to open the door, is it ok?" I had no choice and agreed and he opened the door with a steel stick in less than 10 minutes. I really felt fooled when I saw it!!
Going back to the artworks I've seen different prices, asking for a Heroquest Box style artwork I was asked from 600 (from professional) to 2000 euros (from people with a lower level). Also one time a "wannabe friend" asked 19.000 euros to us to record a music video for a rock band but at the end we recorded it with just 800 euros with another person. So I really think there are people stealing money and people doing things in the right way.
So it is not to understimate the job of someone, but sometimes if they ask really so much they simply lost the job. I don't think for an expert ilustrator it will take more than 2 hour to paint a HQ card in black and white, so if they will ask me more than 10 I will try to find someone else because I am doing it just for passion and will share with other people for free so I CAN'T really spend so much for it.
And also the fact of crediting him will probably bring him some other customer. Anyway he sayd he like Heroquest and is happy to help me with drawing the cards.

Goblin-King wrote:Oh my...!

...

Of course it matters what you are going to use the pieces for, but it's more like if you are a big business the price will go up.

You can't start an argument by agreeing with me. The bigger the business, the more you will be charged, period. It is not that the big business is getting ripped-off, it is YOU are getting a discounted rate. The less you look like like them, the less you will be charged. It's just a fact. Lestodante needs to be explicit about his use, such that he gets competitive rates. And it applies to just about any profession. If you asked me for something I would assume it would be going into a commercial application unless I was told otherwise.

However if the GNU Software Foundation needed an expansion for a software package and stated their price point, I might match it, even though it might be only 10% my regular billable rate. Hell, I might even do it for free. Most open source software is after hours work donated by professional software developers (Linux, GIMP, Blender, etc.). And a commercial business looking at my code may give me a call to buy it or even re-do it even better for them.

But a start-up business requesting my help... They have investors with deep pockets. Is the CEO you are talking to working for 10% of his market rate? Of course not! They get nothing for free from me.

Goblin-King wrote:

allow him to retain copyright for any commercial uses, etc.

It works the other way around actually. If you want exclusive rights to use a piece you are paying extra for that right.
Per default the artist owns the copyright to everything he creates. The customer just buys the right to ALSO use the artwork. It's not much different from those stockphoto sites.

It works exactly this way for software and industrial design as well too. Everything you write you own by default, but very few jobs go this way as commercial jobs are often explicit in the contract about the product and all derivatives being their property.

If you want an hour of someone's time with no strings attached, it is going to cost you. Make it clear that extra strings don't bother you.

commercial jobs are often explicit in the contract about the product and all derivatives being their property.

This. Most situations where your work would by used in any capacity beyond the buyer just acquiring the physical work, there would be a detailed contract.
Your initial statement made it kinda sound like just because it was for non-profit you should get it dirt cheap - sorry if I misunderstood - but this is the main point.
A private hobby person would just acquire the artwork for private use. The bigger the company, the more they would be using the artwork, hence the bigger price.

They always ask me the question: is it that for yourself or for the market?
Personally I hate this question because I am paying the talent and the time he will spent so as GK sayd he should not care about my purpose.

Artist shouldn't care what a private person does - but if the artwork is being used in any capacity other than you just owning the piece, it gets tricky.
I agree that the artist should indeed "simply" get paid for his time. But that's only the cost for him actually producing the artwork. From there you pay extra for everything beyond private use.

Also teeeeeeeeeeeeeeechnically you actually can't reproduce an acquired piece, even for private use, but who the hell is gonna stop you?

I don't think for an expert ilustrator it will take more than 2 hour to paint a HQ card in black and white,

Sounds about right

so if they will ask me more than 10 I will try to find someone else because I am doing it just for passion and will share with other people for free so I CAN'T really spend so much for it.

Your boss comes in and asks you to stay 2 hours extra - he offers you £10. BUT...! Your boss is very passionate about his business
At the end of the day you are asking another person to spend time doing work for you. It's as simple as that.

Goblin-King wrote:Your initial statement made it kinda sound like just because it was for non-profit you should get it dirt cheap - sorry if I misunderstood

Whitebeard, I isunderstood your first post the same way.

I miss Gerwin Broers style... he had some great stuff.





http://members.quicknet.nl/lm.broers/picstek/index.htm

Almost 17 years ago, but maybe he'd be up for it