Hydra -- A Tavern Game for Heroes

[mikemacdee]

With the help of a certain forum member's hard mathematical work, and that of a close friend of mine outside of this forum, I came up with a tavern game for one quest in my White Mage adventure, which other adventure designers may want to try using.



Thoughts and suggestions welcome. You can also put your own spin on it in your adventures.

UPDATED 6-15-2013

[Sjeng]

I don't get it. You bet 1-10 coins, and then toss 3 dice. So what happens then? I either lose the bet, and my money, or I roll 2,4,6 or 8 gold winnings. Then my bet and the winnings are put in the bank, and I either take it all, or try my luck with the dice a second time? Is that basically it? Why would I bet a second time if I can safely take my money each turn? Better to risk losing one bet than 2 at once.
So where does the money come from if I win? The bank? If I win a lot, I empty the bank?

I think you need to play it to understand.

[Ethica]

I can't be bothered to do all the maths but looking at your table it appears the odds of winning something are higher than the odds of losing your stake (in 1 round at least) also you stand to win alot more tha you would lose, I doubt any house would run that game.

I like the idea of a dice gambling game within a quest (anyone remember dragon dice from Moonstone?) but think you need to rethink the mechanics.

[mikemacdee]

The problem is when I had it the other way around, the players basically never won; the few times they did it was always jackpot-equivalent winnings. I dunno, I feel like there's something here, but I'm just not a good enough game designer to get it right. Any suggestions for what the middle-ground would be?

EDIT: Maybe the key is having players bet on certain rolls (like triples) rather than simply placing a bet and rolling.

And actually Dragon Dice did give me the idea. Maybe if I make this work, players could add a similar "tavern" sequence between games.

Sjeng: you basically have it. The original idea was to entice players to risk everything in the hope of doubling their money. But it probably isn't necessary.

[Sjeng]

Yeah, the way I figure it, I always bet 1g, roll, and if I win, I take the cash. If I lose, well it's just 1g. Easy money

[mikemacdee]

Well, you're also not a typical gambler then...

I've reworked it a bit (well, "a bit" is an understatement) but haven't posted the new version yet. Now all combinations have payouts, but your bets boil down to:
- specific combos
- any triple
- white or black shields

[mikemacdee]

I updated the game in the first post. So far this version plays a lot better, but could probably still use work.

[Templar]

The following comments may be obvious but I will make them anyway, to "think out loud" so to speak...hopefully something will come out of it.

People are generally more willing to lose money when they can win a lot of money, than they are willing to bet on something that are statistically better if there is risk of loosing a lot of money. I will give examples assuming players can only bet on or against combinations in the list of sigils above...

Example 1:
The game leader is about to throw the dice.
A player puts 10 gold coins on "Hydra". If are rolled, the player will recieve 1000 gold coins back (100 times the bet). Otherwise only 5 gold will be repaid (Half the bet, rounded down if necessary).

This would be the first kind of game. The house win slightly, statistically, but the payoff is great, to keep the players coming.

Example 2:
The game leader is about to throw the dice.
A player bets 100 gold against "Taxman". Lets call it Not-taxman, or Red Taxman... If three white shields are NOT rolled, the player will get 102 gold back (2 % win, rounded down if necessary). But if are rolled, he looses his entire bet.

For a coldhearted statistician, this is clearly the best of the two bets. The bank only earns 1,78 % gold coins on average vs 3,96 % with the first bet. But for anyone else, the chance of loosing everything versus only winning a meagre 2 % gold should be palpable...You need to bet at least 50 gold to have any chance of winning in the second game. But what if the triple shield comes up first?? You will loose 50 bucks right of the bat, and still need to gamble more if you are to compensate your loss. You may get unlucky again!!

So even though the second bet is mathematically better, most people will prefer the first bet, due to the "what if" thoughts that we mortals all have...

Very interesting, no?

[el_flesh]

"Graveyard" and "Ferryman" are what will usually show up. "Graveyard" is a sure bet if I put down (1Au) 8 times in a row. Odds don't favor the house - players will count themselves ahead and leave if they roll it in less than 8 tries. I closed my eyes and worked it out - exact same situation for your top Jackpot! The odds you wrote are equal. I know I would certainly bet HYDRA and sit there however long it took to make the win - I am certain I would sit there alot less than 216 rolls, too; even though my chance is only 1/216 for any given roll.

For a boardgame like this, however, adding gambling to it is going to go over STELLAR. Especially since it isn't real Au! For once the heros get to actually MAKE some $$$ with lower risk. Now I must thank you effusively - I'm going to pass an enjoyable hour or two trying out dice rolls hahahahah!

You might explain to younger ones, though, that this isn't real gambling - where it's loaded in favor of the house.

[Count Mohawk]

Establishments which run games of "Hydra" are sometimes untrustworthy

When I read this line, I immediately thought of Flint's multicolored dice. I can easily imagine an untrustworthy house slipping a 'black die' (4 , 1 , 1 ) in amidst two regular dice and screwing over the players by changing the odds...

"Graveyard" and "Ferryman" are what will usually show up. "Graveyard" is a sure bet if I put down (1Au) 8 times in a row. Odds don't favor the house - players will count themselves ahead and leave if they roll it in less than 8 tries. I closed my eyes and worked it out - exact same situation for your top Jackpot! The odds you wrote are equal. I know I would certainly bet HYDRA and sit there however long it took to make the win - I am certain I would sit there alot less than 216 rolls, too; even though my chance is only 1/216 for any given roll.

The odds of rolling whatever combination don't quite work that way. While it's true that it might take you less than 8 tries to get a "Graveyard", you're not certain to have rolled one within 8 rolls at all. (The actual odds for 8 rolls are 1 - (7/8)^8 = ~65%, for the curious). That said, most of the sigils actually pay fairly based on their odds, so it's not unreasonable to gamble some gold in the hope of collecting more. Plus, who doesn't like gambling??