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Failed to playtest

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Barbarian Quest Pack: The Frozen Horror.

Re: Failed to playtest

Postby The Admiral » Friday October 26th, 2018 12:36pm

wallydubbs wrote:I really can't be surprised it's the American expansion packs that have all the errors.


Why?


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby wallydubbs » Friday November 9th, 2018 2:58pm

The Admiral wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:I really can't be surprised it's the American expansion packs that have all the errors.


Why?

Stephen Baker, the creator of Hero Quest had no part in putting together the North American expansions, as he left Milton Bradley in 1992.
He was the head of the original game system project and managed the collaboration between Milton Bradley and Games Workshop in the UK. He also played a major roll in Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord, but grew more distant during the creation of Against the Ogre Hoard, as he started working on StarQuest, but still say in it as well as Wizard's of Morcar.

North American adopted the first 3 portions of the game from the UK, where it had it's biggest success.
The Barbarian and Elf quest packs came out in 1992 as Baker left Milton Bradley and their collaboration with Games Workshop shifted direction as they started working on Battle Masters.

I can't find the exact date when Games Workshop and Milton Bradley partnership broke, but most sources point to the Early 90's, so I wouldn't go later then 1993.

Just the same, HeroQuest, Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, Against the Ogre Hoard and Wizard's of Morcar all originally came out in Europe between 1989 and 1991 and 3 of them were adopted by the US with minor changes. I'm not sure what caused the split but at some point in 1991 North America stopped adopting the UK versions and tried making their own. Although made by the same company there was a completely different group of people in on putting it together. Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror seems as if it was rushed through without playtesting, possibly to make room for Battle Masters; plus they received more trouble for making MotM as a lawsuit ensued when Warp Graphics sued them over trademark.

If you've played Mage of the Mirror you can tell this game doesn't really flow with the rest of them as it also contains numerous errors that would've been caught had a thoughtful playtester been employed:
A few chests within the game have no label for contents; the error between Set of Magical Elven Chainmail and Set of Magical Elven Braces, which has already been pointed out; the fact that solo quests 2 and 3 are unbeatable by an uneqipped elf; the immensity of body points on an Ogre and Giant Wolf; the plunder of a single chest could be greater then all rewards a single hero receives from the first quest system put together; spells and artifacts that effect eachother don't even have a footnote for a "what if", scenario.

I haven't played Frozen Horror yet, but some other posters pointed out that the Sorcerer's Table is used twice in a quest that any playtested would've caught.

All this linked with American incompetence (I'm American, I should know) and you have my reasons why.
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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday November 11th, 2018 4:53am

Yeah... he knows his shizzle!


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby The Admiral » Sunday November 11th, 2018 5:55am

You are correct with most of your error spots. I think the wolf and ogre body points are okay. There are not many ogres and they are only encounterd singly, bar one possible occasion. The Heroes should be powerful for these quests so more powerful monsters are not a bad idea. I really enjoyed this quest pack, and the frozen horror.

Incomptance is not the sole domain of the US, and I think someone else nailed it in another thread that the lack of playtesting was an economic driven error.
Last edited by The Admiral on Sunday November 11th, 2018 4:50pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby wallydubbs » Sunday November 11th, 2018 10:21am

:greenorb:
The Admiral wrote:You, are correct with most of your error spots. I think the wolf and ogre body points are okay. There are not many ogres and they are only encounterd singly, bar one possible occasion. The Heroes should be powerful for these quests so more powerful monsters are not a bad idea. I really enjoyed this quest pack, and the frozen horror.

Incomptance is not the sole domain of the US, and I think someone else nailed it in another thread that the lack of playtesting was an economic driven error.


Oh, that's highly plausible, economics could be a reason for rushing through without playtesting. I can do a bit more research on Milton Bradley sales in the US in '91 and '92.

I played Tormuk's guests yesterday and found additional errors:
Tormuk is allowed to reanimate the undead with one of his spells, yet there are no undead in the room with him.
Most of the other expansions are considerate when it comes the # of figurines without having additional expansions. As in one of the rooms contain 3 zombies. This implies that one must own Return of the Witch Lord as well to have the necessary figurines. When I played The elf got sepated from the group due to the falling blocktrap and it took him a while to clear out the undead in the tomb, at which point the Dwarf and the Wizard made quick work of the northern room with goblins and fimirs, only to encountered more undead in the next room.
There was another one I can't quite remember now...
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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby lestodante » Sunday November 11th, 2018 11:36am

Can we make a thread with all errors of the official questbooks that require corrections?


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby wallydubbs » Sunday November 11th, 2018 11:49am

lestodante wrote:Can we make a thread with all errors of the official questbooks that require corrections?

And with suggestions on how to correct them, that would be nice.
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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby Pancho » Sunday November 11th, 2018 12:03pm

wallydubbs wrote:
lestodante wrote:Can we make a thread with all errors of the official questbooks that require corrections?

And with suggestions on how to correct them, that would be nice.

I think these are great ideas.
Separate threads for each pack, or one big thread covering everything?


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby lestodante » Sunday November 11th, 2018 12:25pm

I think separated threads are better or it will become difficult to take track of all the things to fix for more questbooks on a single thread.


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Re: Failed to playtest

Postby wallydubbs » Monday November 12th, 2018 9:29am

lestodante wrote:I think separated threads are better or it will become difficult to take track of all the things to fix for more questbooks on a single thread.

In addition, the slight differences between the North American version and European version. Not that the European version is perfect but I feel the majority of the blunders come from North America, look at America's Dwarven Forge in Keller's Keep and tell me how to get into Room F.
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