Which is the best hero and best group?

[wallydubbs]

Now that we have an entourage of heroes we can mix and match a variety of creative teams to embark on quests as each hero brings something different to the table. Though we already have 12 to choose from there will likely be more to choose from in the future. So I've taken up the opportunity to analyze the heroes available to us from Avalon Hill to determine which hero is the best and which ones would come out best working together. However it must be taken into account that starting heroes would not necessarily turn out to be the same when all the heroes are maxed out with armors and weapons, so this too must be taken into account.

We'll start off with the Barbarian, who is traditionally regarded as the tank of the group, starting off with 8 Body Points and a Broadsword as the starting weapon, it's the heaviest hitting weapon a hero starts with and the only one that has the potential to take down a Dread Warrior or Gargoyle in 1 hit. Possible but not likely.
Every group needs a tank, someone who can give out and take much damage and it's usually the Barbarian, only to have competition by a recently added hero.
The Barbarian starting off with a Broadsword gives him a heavy weapon to start with, which gives him the opening to build up a defense right away while the other heroes might debate if they want to slowly increase offensively or defensively. The Barbarian's shortcoming is his resistance to magic, with low mind points, there are other heroes who can beat him out in regards to that. However artifacts such as the Talisman of Lore or Amulate of the North can raise up his mind points to make him more formidable.

The Bard seems to be a helpful hero that is there to back up his fellow heroes. In such rare cases of solo quests the Bard is poor as most of his spells are put in place to aid other heroes. He may have a Lullaby but we all know how often the Sleep spell fails. His Inspiring Tale is alright and can be won back, but it's easier to win this spell back in the later stages of a quest pack once all the heroes have accumulated armor. His Healing song though, is probably his greatest contribution as it's a spell that can heal multiple heroes, and healing spells are often needed. He's also equipped with a rapier, allowing diagonal attacks and he starts off with 1 extra defence dice, which is somewhat radical... only problem is, though he's not restricted from wearing armor, he loses that extra defence dice, unless he gets Borin's Armor, but that would probably be better off on the tank.

The Berserker is a recent addition that shows qualities one might attribute to the Barbarian. Though he starts off with the same weapon and mind points as the Barbarian, he has 1 less body point, which shouldn't make that much of a difference. He excels over the Barbarian with 3 skills: Enrage, Frenzy and Retaliation, which can all only be used once. Enrage is a double edge sword, it costs him/her precious body points for a chance to inflict more damage against an opponent, it may or may not work out. The other 2 skills are only accessible when his body points diminish, this is an incentive players need to be mature about. You don't want to intentionally waste body points to unlock skills early on, this could be grievous mistake. Frenzy is an attack that could be made against multiple monsters while Retaliation gives him a chance to return an attack. His/her only other shortcoming is that he/she can't use ranged weapons/attacks. He/she can be a useful tank, but weather he's better than the Barbarian is a matter of opinion.

The Druid's main use is in her healing spells. She's restricted from armor but not weapons. The Shapeshift ability isn't overly useful as it's easily broken but not as easily gained back. That 1 attack dice dagger doesn't really help, not until it's upgraded to a Longsword, as the Druid is best not having to direct attack, but reach with a diagonal attack, upping it to 4 attack dice upon Shapeshifting. She can't really go higher than 4 defence dice so it's best she doesn't go for a direct attack against someone with more then 2 Body Points and 3 attack dice because once her healing spells have been used up Shapeshift is hard to gain back. In fact, among the 3 reoccurring spells (Shapeshift, Inspirational Tale, and Demonform) Shapeshift is the most difficult to regain. So keeping her out of direct combat and reserving the healing spells for more direct heroes is the better option. The other problem is her hesitation upon searching for treasure. A simple Hazard card can break her Shapeshift She's formidable once she's maxed out and has a fair amount of mind points, but as a starting hero she's not someone you want to send into the front lines with.

Next we have the Dwarf, with just 1 Body Point below the Barbarian, he's a contender for tank once he's maxed out. In fact the only noticable difference between the Dwarf and Barbarian is a body and mind point and the Dwarf's ability to disarm traps while the Barbarian starts off with a stronger weapon. Even without a tool kit the Dwarf's trap disarm ability is more powerful, and it's an ability that can be used in almost every quest multiple times. Until the Barbarian gains the Amulate of the North the Dwarf is on par if not better then the Barbarian once he has all his armor and weapons, Artifacts make up the difference. Until recently the Dwarf was to go-to trap guy.

The Elf is the bridge between the Barbarian and Wizard, he's a formidable fighter with the ability to cast spells. He can't cast half as many spells as the Wizard nor regain them, but he has access to more spells then any other hero with not just Elemental spells, but a variety of Elf spells that only he/she can access. He may not have the body points to tank like the Barbarian, but once he's reached his full potential there's a bunch of artifacts that only he/she can possess from Mage of the Mirror.

The Explorer has a lot working for him/her, but combat isn't really his/her forte. With only 5 body points and unable to wear metal armor she's not the greatest hero to bring into battle. However the Explorer excels at one area most heroes can't touch, which comes in the form of traps, in detecting, disarming and avoiding. Her Trapsmith and Danger Sense make her the prime hero to lead the way through unexplored, sensing adjacent traps and avoiding the first hazard card drawn on her search. He/she can also accumulate gold a lot quicker by getting a bonus 25 gold whenever finding gold, so you could build her up rather quickly. She also has a bewildering 5 mind points! So she won't likely be chosen as the target of spells. He/she is a good hero to have on the team when it comes to scoping out traps. But if you wish to favor someone more battle hardened that can disarm traps stick with the Dwarf.

The Knight is an interesting hero that I can't help but be impressed by. He has only 1 less Body Point then the Barbarian and instead of a third attack dice he has a third defense dice with a few skill cards that make him a great pick for group quests. The Knight is very defensive not only for his sake but the sake of his friends. So he probably won't be attacking with more then a Longsword as two of his skill cards (Shield Block & Stalwart) require a shield and two of them allow him/her to protect their friends (Knight's Challenge & Shield Block). Stalwart practically gives him an extra body point, salvaging him/her from death.
Starting out the Barbarian has a better chance of removing a monster from the board, but the Knight is more durable in his defense and could probably last longer in an onslaught thanks to the shield, so he's a very formidable contender for a tank especially when he's maxed out: the majority of heroes choose not to wear Platemail because of the movement penalty, but for the Knight it does not restrict his/her movement. This is unprecedented as he's likely to max out with 6 defense dice! I've only seen once before where a hero chooses Platemail and fight the movement penalty by constantly buying Potions of Speed and Dexterity. The Knight doesn't have to do that. Two of his skills are only useful for teammates, but Knight's Challenge could hurt him if he uses it, but the idea is solid enough to protect your partners as the Knight will probably have the best defense of any hero.

Next we have the Monk, who is the most different of all heroes. He's the only hero to rely on techniques instead of of spells or skills to beef his/her attack. The Monk's fists are just as deadly as a Shortsword on their own. He/she requires some understanding of when and how to use his/her techniques. The Air Techniques allow him/her to safely jump identified pit traps or pull off multiple attacks when surrounded by monsters. The Earth techniques are increasingly useful as well, often able to search for both traps and secret doors in a single action while giving him/her 4 attack dice against 1 monster in the moment of battle. The Water techniques are helpful too in negating damage or splitting your movement between actions. The Fire Techniques are the most powerful but are rarely achieved during a quest. If the monsters can keep the battle alive long enough during a quest the Monk will pull off his most powerful attack. However, if the monsters survive his Fire Techniques his powers are spent and make him vulnerable. The Monk is the most difficult to compare to other heroes, but if you're in a quest with a lot of 1BP monsters the Monk can clear a room impressively quick.

The Rogue is an interesting character to play as because it's very risky. With only 5 Body Points his/her skills insist that he/she gets involved in physical combat. Opportunistic Striker and Ambidextrous are supposed to give him a boost but he's only formidable against monsters with 1 or 2 body points. When the heroes are bottlenecked trying to get into a room the Rogue's Combat Mobility gives easy access and it's necessary if the Elf or Wizard don't have Veil of Mist. Starting off with but a single dagger his Ambidextrous skill is unusable, he'd need to upgrade to a Shortsword and I think the ideal weapon for him/her would be Orc's Bane, his Opportunistic Striker ups the attack to 3 dice and he still has Ambidextrous to fall back on. Combat Mobility can also be used to get him out of a pinch but it could also backfire if he/she goes into a room and fails to take out any monsters, with only 5BP and his armor restrictions he/she can become a primary target for multiple monsters. He has good resistance when it comes to magic and I can admire his storyline, but to bring him/her into the group at Mage of the Mirror with monsters like the Giant Wolf, Ogre or Elven Warrior these monsters are too tough for the Rogue. On the note of Mage of the Mirror I have to wonder, since the Rogue is of elfkind, would he/she be allowed to use some of the Mage of the Mirror artifacts? Even after he/she obtains the Bandolier it's only infinite throwing daggers and a tool kit. A tool kit isn't overly helpful for the Rogue when he/she only has 5 Body Points and 50/50 chance to disarm a trap. He's a fun and risky hero to play as, but only in group quests, she can't stand alone because she loses her most important skill (Opportunistic Striker). I think he/she is only good in combat with weaker monsters. You gotta learn to weigh your options with this hero because it can always go wrong when it comes to dice rolling.

Some might consider the Warlock a decent replacement for the Wizard as she can handle his/her artifacts, but only the Wizard's Cloak would aid her in defense. She doesn't have nearly as many spells as the Wizard, though she can constantly regain her Demonform, which is probably her strongest spell, giving her and extra dice from her wand and allows her to avoid pit traps. Starting off, the Wand is a huge help to the team, but unlike the Bard, Knight, Rogue and Wizard her spells do nothing to aid the other heroes, they're very selfish. She has limited body points so she needs to be utilized like the Wizard, keep out of close combat and attack from a distance, don't use Dark Wings unless absolutely necessary. Fear is the only other spell she has, which can be cast on a monster, but it's only of 1 time use, but I suppose it would be effective against monsters like the Polar Warbears or Giant Wolf. But overall I think she'd get a little boring as she can't really handle other forms of equipment. Though I would imagine, like the Wizard she probably wouldn't need a Reagent kit, which is always a plus.

Finally we have the Wizard, who is the most limited in terms of combat but is extremely useful in other ways. He's another hero that doesn't work well with solo quests as so many other heroes, he/she is best with support be it offensively or defensively as his spells could often turn the tide of battle. Playing the Wizard is very different then the other heroes, you need to know when to play your spells and when to keep out of battle, he could die very easily just by drawing a Wandering Monster. He'd make a good pair with the Knight. Although it would be nice if there were extra spells for him to pick from (things can get stale with the same spells all the time, changing it up with some of the WoM spells adds a bit of flavor), but the current elemental spells are powerful enough to boost other heroes like Courage or Rock Skin; provides healing Heal Body, Water of Healing; provide offensive spells like Genie, Ball of Flame and Fire of Wrath; hold off offense from monsters like Tempest and Sleep; and helping the other heroes maneuver around the board like Veil of Mist, Pass Through Rock and Swift Wind. The Wizard was never meant to be the main hero, but he's a very important one when it comes to teamwork. He's resistant to a lot of spells and can max out with 2 Attack Dice (with diagonal), and 4 Defense Dice, his spells can provide a difference too. The Wizard also does not require a Reagent Kit, which is an added benefit to the group.

So which of these heroes is the best? I'd have to go with the hero that is capable in all facets: combat, spells, trap disarm, armor wearing, artifact handling, etc. Once he/she gets a hold of the Magical Elven Bracers and boost her Body Points to 8 and Mind Points to 5, it's evident that the Elf wins out, having a large variety of spells to pick from, multiple artifacts that only he can wield, and though having a Tool Kit doesn't put him/her on par with the Dwarf's ability she's still have a 50/50 shot at disarming a trap, plus in a combat oriented game she's not restricted on armor or weapons, she's well rounded in every way.

And what would be the best group to go questing with? It's different when you have beginners and maxed out heroes. For beginning heroes you'd need a well rounded group, someone with magic, someone with battle skills, someone that could disarm traps and someone multifaceted: the Dwarf or Explorer obviously good pick, their ability to disarm traps gives the other heroes time to build up their weapons and armor before investing in a tool kit, but it depends if you're looking for someone with body points and someone to build up to wear armor or someone that has a knack for detecting traps and that could get a couple more pieces of gold; for magic the only one with an arsenal of spells to go around is the Wizard, they'd come in handy if you know how to use them; for a tank you can either go with the Barbarian, Knight or Berserker depending what you want more of (Offense, Defense or Wreckless Luck), i think offense would be better but at the same time the Knight can step up and defend the Wizard in the event of a Wandering Monster, but then again Barbarian and Berserker are the only ones with an attack capability to take down a monster with 3BPs, but then again that's what magical support is for, it could give the Knight a bit of a boost to make him temporarily stronger then the Barbarian, so it's up to you. The final hero is someone that needs to benefit the group: although the Elf would be a logical choice the other heroes should be considered too, the Druid has some healing spells but her attacks aren't spectacular even with the Shapeshift; the Warlock doesn't provide any useful spells to the rest of the group and is just as low on body points as the Wizard; the Rogue is a good hero that feeds off his teammates when attacking but just starting off with a single dagger he can't take advantage of ambidextrous; the Bard has a healing spell for all to benefit from and Inspirational Tale has the potential to be replayed again and again with the Knight's shield and maybe Rock Skin, plus he adds another sleep spell and can attack diagonally with 2 attack dice, and he gets an additional defence dice for not wearing armor. This seems like a good team to start with, but I've never actually done it, but theoretically this team might work: Knight, Wizard, Dwarf and Bard.

But when we have a crew that's maxed out you want to stray away from heroes that can't wear armor, the Barbarian with the Amulate of the North and Ring of Fortitude could bring him up to 11 Body Points, 3 mind points, 4 attack dice and 4-5 defence dice (hopefully Borin's Armor wasn't lost in Return of the Witch Lord). How can one resist the Knight with 8 Body Points (Ring of Fortitude), 3 mind points (Talisman of lore), 3 attack dice, 6 defense dice. The Elf with 9 body points, 5 mind points, Spirit Blade as the weapon, 6 defence dice. Wizard (5 Body Points, 6 Mind Points, 2 Attack Dice, 4 Defence Dice.

Anyone want to submit their opinions?
I respect it if anyone chooses the original 4, that's my favorite, but are they the best?

[Aki]

I like this type of tactical discussion and I don't know why nobody has reply yet!
However, I'm agree with your analysis ( except Mythic Tier heroes, I don't have those, and quite frankly I don't like them)
First rule is stay alive, so I like to play with a great number of body points and bring as much heal spells I can ( so Earth, Water spells and Magic Ring with Heal Body)
I tried the new Knight, and in the immediate future I'll play the Rogue, in my personal Lore I like to switch the party from one expansion to another because the Heroes works done on many fronts againts Zargon's multiple threats! For example I don't play Elf in the Return of the Witch Lord, beacuse he's in travel for Elethorn, instead I bring the Knight (female) because she's Kenarion daughter and she want vengeance!
So, Knight is a tank and have a great ability (Shield Block) can bring Armour Plate without movement penalty, I'm evolved she into a Paladin with the Spirit Blade and the other stuff against Undead
For me the best Heroes are Dwarf and Mage, they are the perfect support group, unfortunately the Dwarf died in MoM and be replaced by the Barbarian, I like to use the Mage with he's two dice diagonal attack, how many monster dies under he's infidious staff!
My best party is:
Knight ( -1BP less the Barbarian but skills and no Plate Armour penalty)
Dwarf ( 7 BP and the best against traps)
Elf ( 6 BP and Elf Spells, someones are a gamechanger!)
Wizard ( Earth, Water and Air spells)

That's all!

[Odanan]

My best party is:
Knight ( -1BP less the Barbarian but skills and no Plate Armour penalty)
Dwarf ( 7 BP and the best against traps)
Elf ( 6 BP and Elf Spells, someones are a gamechanger!)
Mage ( Earth, Water and Air spells)

This ^

[Odanan]

What about the Wandering Monk? Is it good?

[wallydubbs]

What about the Wandering Monk? Is it good?

I haven't been able to playtest the Wandering Monk, based on what details I saw I don't know all of his/her abilities, nor do I completely understand the elemental fighting style mechanic, so I can't say for certain how I feel about the monk or how I'll take to him/her. But once the Wandering Monk becomes available and I can study his moveset/abilities, I'll be sure to make updates.
He seems complicated from what I've read, only allowed to use certain weapons while having to utilize Earth, Air, and Water abilities in order to use fire tactics. But we'll see.

[wallydubbs]

I like this type of tactical discussion and I don't know why nobody has reply yet!
However, I'm agree with your analysis ( except Mythic Tier heroes, I don't have those, and quite frankly I don't like them)
First rule is stay alive, so I like to play with a great number of body points and bring as much heal spells I can ( so Earth, Water spells and Magic Ring with Heal Body)
I tried the new Knight, and in the immediate future I'll play the Rogue, in my personal Lore I like to switch the party from one expansion to another because the Heroes works done on many fronts againts Zargon's multiple threats! For example I don't play Elf in the Return of the Witch Lord, beacuse he's in travel for Elethorn, instead I bring the Knight (female) because she's Kenarion daughter and she want vengeance!
So, Knight is a tank and have a great ability (Shield Block) can bring Armour Plate without movement penalty, I'm evolved she into a Paladin with the Spirit Blade and the other stuff against Undead
For me the best Heroes are Dwarf and Mage, they are the perfect support group, unfortunately the Dwarf died in MoM and be replaced by the Barbarian, I like to use the Mage with he's two dice diagonal attack, how many monster dies under he's infidious staff!
My best party is:
Knight ( -1BP less the Barbarian but skills and no Plate Armour penalty)
Dwarf ( 7 BP and the best against traps)
Elf ( 6 BP and Elf Spells, someones are a gamechanger!)
Mage ( Earth, Water and Air spells)

That's all!

Thanks for agreeing, I too wonder why nobody wants to take part in this discussion.
I agree with you on the Mythic Heroes, the Bard and Warlock are too D&Dish and don't fit into the overall genre of Hero Quest. I could buy there being a Druid upset at Zargon's forces raiding the lands. But when it comes to the Bard and Warlock I'm relieved there's only 1 of each in my hero pool.
I have a hero pool of 3 Barbarians (Male, Female & Frozen Horror), 1 Bard, 1 Druid, 2 Dwarves (Male & Female), 3 Elves (Male, Female, Mage of the Mirror), 3 Knights (Male, Female, Rise of the Dread Moon), 2 Rogues (Male & Female), 1 Warlock, 3 Wizards (Male, Female & Mentor). So I have experimented with some of these other heroes and have found the ones that can't wear armor can die very easily. Running through the Game System the Elf (MotM) and Warlock died in The Trial and Wizard (Female) in Lair of the Orc Warlord, and then the Rogue died in Keller's Keep. But I managed to get through the rest of the expansions with Barbarian (Female), Druid, Elf (Female) and Dwarf (Female).
Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror should not be done with 4 heroes, you'll need a 5th, if it's the Wizard you'll need to give him all 4 Elemental spells and let the Elf rely on his MotM spells.
The Rogue, though supposed to be Terellia's son is not mentioned in Mage of the Mirror (understandable it's a remake and he had no part in the original), but you could add him as an ideal candidate as the 5th hero for MotM, especially if Zargon allows him to wield some of the Elven artifacts (He is elfkind). Frozen Horror, since taking place in the Barbarian's homeland, I would recommend a 2nd Barbarian joining that group you could write her in as the sister or Ex-love interest for the heroes personal story, you need heavy hitters to get through this quest pack.
I did all of this before acquiring the Knights, so I'm really curious to see how well they do. A couple months we'll have the Monk too and see how well they do.

I agree that healing spells are necessary and when you play the Solo Quests in Mage of the Mirror, you should never pick Air spells. Earth spells are probably your best option for the first MotM quest, you get an extra defence with Rock Skin, a healing spell and Pass Through Rock if you want to make a quick escape from the Undead in the last room. After that pick Water Spells for On Sacred Ground and Terellia's Maze, even though you may or may not get to use Veil of Mist, that Sleep spell is your best friend against a Giant Wolf.

I agree that the Dwarf and Wizard are great allies, even the Bard and Rogue are in my opinion, but when I said best hero, I was thinking more along the lines, when it comes to standing alone, the Elf is probably the best. Even though he can only have 3 spells it's more then the Barbarian, Rogue, Knight and Dwarf have, and he has access to more spells groups then the Bard, Druid, Warlock and Wizard, he can even surpass the Dwarf and Knight on body points if he gets a hold of the Elven Bracers and artifact handling.

[Aki]

For MOTM and probably works well also for FH here my analysis viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6494&p=126116#p126116
For the Monk honestly I want wait to test before gave my opinions, but I have the suspect is a bit op and yes probably the Elf with the right spells and artifact is the best solo Hero, about the Rogue he can't wear the Elf artifacts probably because his class is Rogue and not Elf, or is just a young rebel.
My next chapter is ROTDM and the party is: Knight, Elf (because part of my story) Rogue (because I want to evolve he into a sort of Assassin thanks to the new camouflage mechanic) and of course, Mage

[The Admiral]

Mage ( Earth, Water and Air spells)!

Is this the same as the Wizard?

[Aki]

Sorry, is the Wizard yes

[Aki]

With the announce of the new Quest Packs, probably I'll play them with my version of baddest Heroes: Barbarian, Rogue, Bard (because is Orc) and Warlock seems fun!