Trying to figure out the EU timeline / history

[Zenithfleet]

G'day all,

I'm trying to pin down a timeline for when fictional events happened in official Heroquest materials. How long ago did Rogar the Barbarian live? When did Morcar first show up? Things like that.

(I'm sure this has been done before, but the thread is hiding somewhere in the depths of the forums and I don't have a stone / cardboard map ...)

For my purposes I'm only relying on the EU game materials, because reasons. That is, the Rules of Play, the base game questbook, Kellar's Keep, RotWL, Against the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar. Other sources are welcome but I'll look at them with a suspicious sidelong glance.

I'm deliberately ignoring anything from Warhammer materials for the moment, as I just want to see if the published game and quest packs have some kind of internal coherency. Please restrain your urge to shout "THE BLACK MOUNTAINS ARE OVER THERE YOU FOOL!" If it's not mentioned in Heroquest then pretend it doesn't exist.

Here's what I have so far. Let me know if I've missed anything.


LOCATIONS

The Empire

Borderlands - home of Rogar

Black Fire Pass - mountain pass that links Empire to Borderlands.

Athelorn - home of Ladril the Elf fighter-mage.

Fountain of Lebin - Elven fountain.

World's Edge Mountains - eastern border of Empire. Home of Dwarves such as Durgin.

Black Mountains - Orcs, ancient retreat of the Witch Lord.


Karak Varn - in World's Edge Mountains. Great Dwarf stronghold, of which Kellar's Keep is inner bastion.

Note that Karak Varn's geography doesn't make much sense. It lies 'within the heart of the World's Edge Mountains', but is also specifically a huge fortress on the eastern
side of the mountains to guard against the Dark Lands.

However, this means the Emperor's army somehow takes shelter on the eastern side (in Kellar's Keep) after fighting at Black Fire Pass. That is, on the far side of the World's Edge Mountains! So are the Dark Lands and the Borderlands the same place? And this is despite the Emperor's army drawing up in front of the pass, facing it to defend the Empire, while Morcar's army pours down from the steep slopes--so presumably the Emperor is on the western side facing into the pass. Very weird.

The description also can't seem to decide whether Karak Varn was a city or a fortress (but it could be both). There is an implication that it's still inhabited, or at least garrisoned, by Dwarves, because it was the only city/stronghold not to fall to Morcar's Orcs and Goblins long ago.


Halls of Belorn - in World's Edge Mountains. Crosses from west side to east side by the Dark Lands, with gates on either side and a Great Citadel in the middle; built on the richest ancient mine of all, Belorn's Mine. To reach Kellar's Keep in Karak Varn, you must travel through the Halls to the East Gate. (See above.)

Keloth's Tor - site where Dwarves won a great victory against Orcs and Goblins long ago, ushering a time of peace (until everything changed when Morcar attacked)

Keloth's Hill - site of a Dwarf battle involving King Holgar, probably pre-Morcar. Maybe the same as Keloth's Tor (one could be an early draft name that wasn't changed by editors), or else it's a nearby location.


Northern Chaos Wastes

Dark Lands - east of World's Edge Mountains

Sea of Claws

Barak Tor, Barrow of the Witch Lord - presumably on the Empire's side of Black Fire Pass, because the Witch Lord will attack the Emperor from the rear if not
defeated in base game

Kalos - dead city, surrounded by Plains of Death
Last king was Agrain
Kalos has three thrones, a High Throne and two others; High Throne overlooks the Plains of Death


Kaltrac, dark tower of Morcar

Sarako, where the High Mage is from

Shuddering Forests and associated graveyard swamp (!)

Tarak Mountains where the High Mage lives

Note - for a much more detailed list of places and geography, see this great thread elsewhere on the Inn:
viewtopic.php?f=143&t=3552&hilit=kaltrac


DRAMATIS PERSONAE

Mentor

Morcar
Morcar's General

The Emperor
Prince Magnus
Sir Ragnar
Kenaron, captain of the Emperor's guard

Rogar the Barbarian
Durgin the Dwarf
Ladril the Elf
Telor the Wizard

King Belorn (Dwarf)
Grin
King Holgar
King Garin

King Agrain of Kalos

The Witch Lord
Skulmar, Captain of the Dead Host
Kessandria, the Witch Queen

Festral (Chaos Sorcerer sent to the Ogre clan)

Dirgrusht Ogre clan

4x Wizards of Morcar (Sorcerers / Lieutenants):
Fanrax
Grawshank
Boroush
Zanrath

[Other named characters to be inserted here if they're important enough]


TIMELINE

Empire

???? - Empire formed

???? - Ollar builds the Castle of Mystery on a gold mine

Over 1000 years ago, maybe much more - Mentor and Morcar as teacher and apprentice (see below)

???? - Melar creates the Talisman of Lore but fears Morcar's allies will steal it


Present day:
Emperor (unnamed)
Prince Magnus

Sir Ragnar captured, then rescued
Various adventures
War with eastern Orcs brews
Emperor rides with army to Black Fire Pass (links Empire with Borderlands)
Biggest army in living memory; greater even than Rogar's host
Almost wins but then Morcar unleashes his magic (lightning/firebolts) and Doomguard attack
Remnants of Emperor's army retreat to Karak Varn, 'the ancient dwarven stronghold'

After RotWL:
Sir Ragnar falls to Chaos
Helps Skulmar
Is captured and executed
Ogres ravage the land (Borderlands?)


Morcar, Lord of Chaos

'Many centuries ago' - was Mentor's apprentice
Learns secrets too quickly, then flees
Mentor catches up; Morcar has pledged allegiance to Great Powers of Chaos (they will serve him for a time and then destroy him)
Mentor and Morcar battle
Morcar, weakened, flees to Northern Chaos Wastes; recovers, hones skills, conjures powers to overthrow the Empire
(so Empire existed when Morcar first turned bad and fled)

Over 1000 years ago - Morcar destroys city of Kalos and gives it to Witch Lord to rule
(King Agrain and his people die defending city)

???? - Morcar attacks Dwarf cities under World's Edge Mountains with army of Orcs and Goblins.
Destroys the cities one by one, except Karak Varn.
Halls of Belorn overrun and ransacked.
(King Garin dies defending Halls and is buried there.)

???? - Devastates Empire; army marches under the Black Banner; land laid waste; survivors hide in 'hills and forests'
Rogar the Barbarian from the Borderlands (with Star of the West on brow) rallies the people
Joined by Durgin, Ladril and Telor

Rogar trains his army 'for many years', avoiding open battle, harrying supply lines
Finally attacks Morcar's army from two sides in the high passes
Morcar and general escape beyond the Sea of Claws

(Fall of Kalos and the Dwarf cities could happen at same time as invasion of Empire, meaning that Rogar et al lived over 1000 years ago)

Present day - Morcar reappears at Black Fire Pass and unleashes magic + Doomguard to defeat Emperor's army

After RotWL:
Plants Chaos Sorcerer in Dirgrusht Ogre clan and they overrun the Northern Borderlands (?)
Prepares the four Wizards of Morcar


Dwarves

'Many thousands of years ago' - build homes under mountains

Karak Varn built on eastern side of mountains to guard against the Dark Lands (but see problems with its geography above)

King Belorn finds Belorn's Mine. Builds the Great Citadel on top of it and the Halls of Belorn around it.
Grin the loner and unsuccessful gold miner finds a passageway into Kellar's Keep (Grin's Crag). Carves his stone map and gives it to Belorn, his lord.

Belorn dies and is honoured with a great burial hall (the one in the quest 'Hall of Dwarven Kings').


King Holgar - descendant of Belorn (although text is a little ambiguous and he could be a forefather) - led warriors at the battle of Keloth's Hill - buried in Hall.

Dwarves soundly defeat Orcs and Goblins at battle of Keloth's Tor. (Same as Keloth's Hill?)


Slow decline over time of peace.


Morcar comes with new army he had patiently raised, of Orcs and Goblins. Attacks without warning. Destroys all the Dwarf underground cities except for Karak Varn.
(This implies Karak Varn is still inhabited by Dwarves to the present day - at least a garrison of some kind if it's mostly a fortress.)

King Garin - descendant of Belorn - defends against Morcar's attack and dies 'fighting to the last' with his brothers. Buried in Hall. (Probably the last burial here.)

Halls of Belorn ruined and stripped of valuables. Orcs and Goblins live there from now on until present. But can't find the gold in Belorn's Mine.

(???? - at some point in history the Dwarves forge the Spirit Blade in cooperation with the Elves)


Undead

Witch Lord - King of the Dead - 'powerful servant of Morcar' - already undead when Morcar first attacked?
Can raise his 'legions of the dead' / Legion of the Damned
Spirit Riders led his skeletal cavalry into battle
Elite are the Forgotten Legion, led by Skulmar the Captain of the Dead Host

Over 1000 years ago - Kalos, city resplendent on fertile land
King Agrain, ruler in a 'time before chaos' (probably meaning a time before Morcar's first attack)
Morcar destroys Kalos and gives it to the Witch Lord to rule
King Agrain and his people rush to defend the city against Morcar (presumably killed or they escape)
Witch Lord builds for himself a great stronghold to keep the light of day off his creatures (because they're already undead?)

Fertile lands around become Plains of Death, parched, barren, dust-clogged and scorched by sun

???? - Spirit Blade forged by Dwarves and cooled in Elven fountain of Lebin. (Before or after Witch Lord attacked as a servant of Morcar?)

Time of Rogar and company: Witch Lord destroyed by the Spirit Blade
Buried at Barak Tor - magically sealed/imprisoned
Stronghold beneath Kalos shut, and no one ventured in or out
Spirit Blade placed in temple

Present day:
Heroes find Star of the West in Barak Tor (why is it there?)
Accidentally awaken Witch Lord
Retrieve Spirit Blade from now-ancient and ruined temple
Defeat Witch Lord
Witch Lord flees to 'ancient retreat' in the Black Mountains
Then he moves to Kalos
Skulmar and Kessandria join him
Prepares to raise his undead army under the Black Banner
Witch Lord destroyed by heroes

After RotWL:
Skulmar survives and escapes from Kalos with many of the WL's powerful spell books; was helped by corrupted Sir Ragnar
No mention of Kessandria's fate



I haven't looked closely at Ogre Horde or Wizards of Morcar yet for timeline purposes.

The most important reference for pinning things down is 'The Silent Passages' (quest 3 of Return of the Witch Lord), which says that Kalos fell to Morcar over 1000 years ago. If it wasn't for that line, then almost everything would be nebulous - 'long ago', 'many centuries ago', etc.

However, if Kalos fell at the same time as the Dwarf cities and/or Morcar's first invasion of the Empire, it causes a few issues. Not necessarily with the internal timeline, but with the feel of things.

For instance, I get the feeling Rogar and friends lived a bit more recently than over a millennia ago. In particular, there's the line at the end of the base game questbook about the Emperor's army: "No such army has ever been raised in living memory. Greater even than Rogar's host it was." I always took that to imply that elderly humans might still remember Rogar and his host. Of course, the two sentences aren't necessarily related--and Mentor has a very long 'living memory'! (So do Dwarves and Elves.)

Still, would it really take Morcar over a millennium to plot his revenge? Years or decades, sure. Generations, even. Centuries, maybe. But over a thousand years of hanging out with his general beyond the Sea of Claws between his first invasion and his second? Seems dubious.

(The real answer to these questions is probably that the Heroquest background was written in a hasty off-the-cuff manner as befits a boardgame, riffing on existing Warhammer background, and the writers didn't really take time to make sure it fit together perfectly. See also the weirdness of Karak Varn's geography.)

Also, players more familiar with the North American edition might be scratching their heads over a few things above, especially with regard to Kellar's Keep and the Dwarves. This is because the NA questbooks stripped out quite a bit of flavour text in order to make room for pedantically saying "you must find the wooden exit door" over and over again.

[Kurgan]

The Maze, The Trial (2nd Edition) and the other 13 quests of the core game, then Kellar's Keep OR Return of the Witch Lord (but probably in that order), then Against the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar. When do Running the Gauntlet and A Growl of Thunder take place? What about The Halls of Durag Dol and Eyes of Chaos? Or Revenge of the Weather Man? (the latter were all published through Hasbro Bradley via Corgi for the Dave Morris official HeroQuest novels and the others in cooperation with GamesWorkshop through White Dwarf magazine and Marvel comics). Is "A Plague of Zombies" (Adventure Design Kit) official? There's a lot of lore there, but not everything from Warhammer Fantasy Battle/RPG is automatically canon for HeroQuest. Though many would try to say that BattleMasters (also released in the EU) and possibly Advanced HeroQuest should also be taken into account. Of course throughout it's more the world and historical personages, because the heroes get different names (and even different personalities) in the various presentations (Mentor and Morcar's appearances also change somewhat in their portrayals, see especially in the sticker album and the 1991 Gremlin pc game(s)). HeroQuest II: Legacy of Sorasil is a whole 'nother thing... but it was official back in '94, so who knows?


I don't own the EU editions of KK/ROTWL (and am far less familiar with the differences there) so I would love to scour those for more flavor text when playing them (under NA/Remake rules).

Then again maybe Morcar was busy trying to spread over other parts of the world while this was going on? (he incursions isn't the Island of Neef in the Japanese edition might be more recent?)

[HispaZargon]

LOCATIONS

The Empire

Borderlands - home of Rogar

Black Fire Pass - mountain pass that links Empire to Borderlands.

Athelorn - home of Ladril the Elf fighter-mage.
.
.
.

Hi, as I pointed on this post of thread Definitive, Unofficially Official, HQ Cartography Discus, the name of the dark tower where Morcar met the four wizards at the beginning of Wizards of Morcar's quest pack is Kaltrac.

The name of the tower is not mentioned in the quest book, BUT fortunately it is mentioned in the back of WoM expansion's box, so I think it should be included in the list.

[Kurgan]

Another reason I love Ye Olde Inn... so much awesome info stored away for that day when you need it!

[Zenithfleet]

The Maze, The Trial (2nd Edition) and the other 13 quests of the core game, then Kellar's Keep OR Return of the Witch Lord (but probably in that order), then Against the Ogre Horde and Wizards of Morcar. When do Running the Gauntlet and A Growl of Thunder take place? What about The Halls of Durag Dol and Eyes of Chaos? Or Revenge of the Weather Man? (the latter were all published through Hasbro Bradley via Corgi for the Dave Morris official HeroQuest novels and the others in cooperation with GamesWorkshop through White Dwarf magazine and Marvel comics). Is "A Plague of Zombies" (Adventure Design Kit) official? There's a lot of lore there, but not everything from Warhammer Fantasy Battle/RPG is automatically canon for HeroQuest. Though many would try to say that BattleMasters (also released in the EU) and possibly Advanced HeroQuest should also be taken into account. Of course throughout it's more the world and historical personages, because the heroes get different names (and even different personalities) in the various presentations (Mentor and Morcar's appearances also change somewhat in their portrayals, see especially in the sticker album and the 1991 Gremlin pc game(s)). HeroQuest II: Legacy of Sorasil is a whole 'nother thing... but it was official back in '94, so who knows?

Er, Kurgan matey, did you reply before reading what I wrote?

First, I'm not focusing on the minutae of which quest happens after which quest. (That's pretty obvious, but also up to the players to decide.) Instead, I'm looking at the big picture of the overall backstory.

Second, I'm paying no attention to the supplementary stuff like the books, White Dwarf bonus quests, Marvel Winter Special and so on. Just focusing on what you might call Tier A canon. The rest is basically fanfiction to me until proven otherwise. (In the same way, when I read Warhammer-related stuff, I don't treat the many, many novels and their sometimes wobbly or eccentric interpretations of the fluff as 'canon', even though they've grown increasingly closely tied to the canon over the years.)

Third, I said I'm ignoring Warhammer for the moment. I will un-ignore it eventually, because I enjoy trying to cram Heroquest into Warhammer history as much as anyone who grew up with both. But not yet.

I do include the back of the official EU boxes, though.* Which, from discussion elsewhere on these forums, leads to the interesting conclusion that the Barbarian was originally from the Borderlands like his predecessor Rogar. Apparently the 1st edition EU Heroquest box said this on the back, although I haven't tracked down a picture yet. It would make sense in the original conception of Heroquest that the four player characters hail from the same places that the four famous ancient heroes came from. Later, this seems to have been rethought and the box cover changed for the 2nd edition; from then on the Barbarian was implied to be from the chilly north instead--maybe because that's a stronger Conanesque archetype. But because the 'cold north' background came from supplementary stuff and the NA quest packs, I intend to cheerfully ignore it.

*I wouldn't put the Plague of Zombies in 'Tier A canon' even though it's on the back of a box, because it's clearly meant as an example of something a kid would invent on his/her own.

not everything from Warhammer Fantasy Battle/RPG is automatically canon for HeroQuest.

That's a whole other topic ...

I will say one thing here about Warhammer, though. There's one source of info in the official Heroquest EU materials that I'm ignoring: the map on the back of the Return of the Witch Lord questbook. I don't consider that to be Heroquest canon even though it's printed right there on the back cover.

The reason is that it's clearly just a map yoinked from Warhammer and slapped on the back of the book without any effort to Heroquestify it.

You can see this in the name 'Border Princes' for the region on the other side of Black Fire Pass. In Heroquest, that's almost certainly the area called the Borderlands. They probably changed the name because 'Border Princes' sounds like a bunch of people, not an area of land, which would have puzzled the 10-year-olds buying the game. Other locations are called 'Loren Forest', i.e. Athel Loren as it's known in Warhammer, not Athelorn as it's known in Heroquest. (You could argue that they're two different places, I suppose, but that would be as silly as searching the inside of a pit trap.) Karak Varn isn't shown by name even though that's a vital location in Heroquest. And so on. The map hasn't been adapted to the Heroquest nomenclature, so it doesn't count and I see naught but a blank parchment.

By contrast, the 'Minions of Morcar' illustration on the back of the Kellar's Keep questbook has been Heroquestified. The creatures not found in Heroquest have been edited out.

Hi, as I pointed on this post of thread Definitive, Unofficially Official, HQ Cartography Discus, the name of the dark tower where Morcar met the four wizards at the beginning of Wizards of Morcar's quest pack is Kaltrac.

The name of the tower is not mentioned in the quest book, BUT fortunately it is mentioned in the back of WoM expansion's box, so I think it should be included in the list.

Great find! I'll add it to the list.

I have that box, but it's safely stored away in a treasure chest somewhere.

Kaltrac, eh? That's an odd name. I would have named it Chazwozzer's Tower.

I also recall the back of the Ogre Horde box saying "The Northern Borderlands lie ruined!" which might be one of the few mentions of the Northern Borderlands. That sentence disturbed me a bit when I was a kid because it sounded like a sudden mini-apocalypse.

That cartography discussion thread is a great resource--thanks.

[cornixt]

Here is the Warhammer 3rd edition timeline from the rulebook, if it is of any help.

10,000 before present
Construction of warp-gates and arrival of the Slann.
9,000
Slann reshape planet and reposition its orbit.
8,750
Elves emerge.
8,500
Elves are established on Ulthuan under the tutelage of the Slann.
Dwarfs begin northwards movement from equator.
7,000
Collapse of the warp-gates and the first Incursion of Chaos. World-wide catastrophe as warpstone dust permeates atmosphere causing mutation and insanity.
6,000
Elf civilisation enters its golden age. Colonies established in the New World and Old World.
5,500
Dwarfs found Caraz-a-carak.
5,250
Rebellion of the Dark Elves and civil war in Ulthuan (ends 3450). Dark Elves found Naggarond.
5,000
Dwarf/Elvish alliance drives evil creatures from Old World.
4,500
Dwarf/Elf wars begin.
4,100
Dwarf/Elf wars end. Elves abandon the Old World except for a few arboreal communities later to become the Wood Elves. Although victorious, the Dwarfs are seriously weakened.
4,000
Start of the Goblin wars. Volcanic activity and goblinoid invaders breaks the Dwarf realm into countless fractions. Wood Elves found Athel Loren.
3,000
Human primitives reach Old World and divide into numerous barbaric tribes.
2,500
Aided by a confederacy of northern tribes, the Dwarfs finally drive the goblinoids from the Old World. Goblin wars end with the majority of goblinoids pushed into the Dark Lands. Sigmar unites confederacy of tribes into a single nation. Founding date of The Empire.
1,500
From the founding of The Empire to this time, human groups war against each other, founding and demolishing a succession of states. In The Empire the so-called Age of Wars begins (IC 1152) marking the division of Its principalities for five hundred years. Halflings settle in The Moot
750
Human nomads, the Gospodars, sweep into north of Old World rampaging and killing. Eventually, settle down to found the state of Kislev, north of The Empire.
500
Human explorers denied access to Ulthuan by the Elves. Disintegration of The Empire is complete, with all central authority destroyed or ineffective. There is no recognised Emperor until the election of Magnus the Pious. Goblins start to infiltrate the human nations.
350
Elves return to Old World and set up trading missions in human cities.
200
The Incursions of Chaos, always subject to periods of expansion and contraction, becomes extremely active (IC2302). A new age of mutation and insanity amongst humankind. Beastmen become numerous in the forests. Goblinoid raiders capture many of the passes in the Worlds Edge Mountains and set-up permanent camps in the Old World. Chaos creatures pour into the world from the north. Praag is overrun by Chaos hordes (IC 2303).
The Present day
The last two hundred years have seen the discovery of Lustria (IC2402) and the New Coast (IC 2421). However, mutation and the goblinoid threat continues to cause problems in the Old World, and the Incursions of Chaos are growing increasingly active.

[Zenithfleet]

That's brilliant. Thanks, cornixt!

At first glance that 3rd edition timeline seems to match up pretty well to the 4th/5th ed timeline I'm more familiar with. It looks like HeroQuest's background doesn't fit in with 3rd ed WFB's timeline any better than it does with later editions.

The only major difference that jumps out at me is that in 5th edition, Lustria was discovered by the Old World a lot earlier--about a thousand years before the present if I remember right. (1500s by the Empire calendar). But don't quote me on that. And the Norse found it even earlier, around the 800s by the Empire calendar.

Those changes aren't surprising given that Lustria was completely revamped for 5th edition after staying offstage for most of 4th.


Is there a specific Undead timeline in 3rd edition? Anything about Nagash and Nehekhara / Khemri?


Incidentally one of the bigger timeline changes after 4th/5th involved the Undead in 6th edition. The split into Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings (which began in 5th edition) led to retconning of Nagash's early history. It also replaced Morgheim and Kadon, from the 4th ed Undead book, with Mourkain and the Strigoi vampires, from the 6th ed Vampire Counts book.

[luizplk]

Greetings!
Congratulations on the initiative!
I also started a similar project. I’m cross-referencing the information from all the quest books with the books by Dave Morris, understanding them to be canonical and that the events described there make up the story.
For example, in the first book, they are adventuring in Athelorn, the land of Ladril the elf from the introduction. It says there that the Mountains at the Top of the World are close to this forest. And so it goes…

When I have more results, I’ll post them here.

See you soon!

[Kurgan]

I mean centuries ago the man Morcar betrayed Mentor and pledged himself to the great powers of Chaos. At some point they fought but neither could defeat the other, with the bad guy having powerful allies who also fought Mentor's allies. Wounded, Morcar fled to the Northern Chaos Wastes.

Sometime (years?) later he waged war upon the Empire, and Mentor recruited Rogar and his companions. These heroes of legend fought skirmishes and ran missions for years (?) and then the final battle that drove Morcar back into hiding. Morcar's general (which I always assumed was meant to be the Witch Lord) was also defeated at this time.

Centuries after these events, Loretome and signs around the Empire show Mentor that Morcar has returned. Mentor summons the current four heroes. At some point the Emperor and his men are trapped in/around Karak Varn and the heroes are sent to rescue them.

The heroes wage many battles and run missions for the Emperor and/or Mentor culminating in a new defeat for the Witch Lord (after they thought they defeated him in his tomb with the Spirit Blade) in battle with the Empire's forces, but Skullmar escaped with many magic books (unresolved cliffhanger). At this time Sir Ragnar was (in the EU lore only) discovered to have been a traitor and executed.

Morcar sends Festral to get the Digrusht clan of Ogres on his side until the plan is thwarted by the heroes, then the Emperor's troops are led by the heroes to route and mop up the remaining forces loyal to Morcar. Shortly after this, Morcar recounts the failures and executes Festral and his companions, then somehow the heroes go to track down and eliminate the four evil Wizards of Morcar (even though the story kind of sets them up as being there to eliminate the heroes).

A plague of Zombies comes across as a side mission but is released around this time unfinished of course, you could read it as just a sample demo and nothing more.

Sometime after this there is another treason plot within the Empire and the heroes are sent to wipe out Hinsgrim and his fellow traitors (the "dark warriors") who have allied with the remaining Doomguard. And then it all kind of ends without much explanation. The heroes have their rings of brilliance and who knows...

About this time BattleMasters is released which details assaults on the border lands by the forces of Chaos (Morcar's armies?). Mentions of assailing the borderlands is mentioned in the narration text of Mentor to the Heroes for the initial 14 quests.

The Sticker Album and Marvel Winter Special tell a version of a party of heroes that might have been summoned by Mentor, using different names and art implying alternate interpretations or parallel tellings of the story. Further confusion is added in the presentation of Morcar as either an unseen force, a Wizard very much like Mentor, some kind of twisted crone (possibly, via the DOS game on PC from Gremlin in the cutscenes) or else a hooded figure with glowing eyes resembling Skeletor in terms of his outfit and skin color. Marvel Winter Special gives some background on Skullmar (told in a humorous "tour" given by one of his minions through the monster roster) while the Sticker Album presents Morcar as a young man who becomes an old Wizard in red cloak in magical duel with white bearded Mentor who bears pointed ears and a blue outfit.

Yet another vision is presented in the first Dave Morris novel (and the Barbarian and Wizard who have solo adventures in the next two novels appear to be each a different character than the ones presented in the first novel "Fellowship of Four"). This to me emphasizes the fact that the heroes are yours to customize. But the basic outline is that they have other adventures outside the ones we see in those quest booklets and there are probably other adventurers that Mentor has recruited, who either failed, or continue to run missions on the side. The heroes are more like a special forces unit at a certain point in the scheme of the war. Then there's Advanced HeroQuest and I don't know enough there to see where it might fit in, or be yet another alternate interpretation of everything once more (more new names for the heroes).

What little I know of the Warhammer 3rd edition background (current at the time of the birth of HeroQuest and the source of some of the art pieces) seems to indicate that Morcar is not the same as "Morkar" the ancient Chaos Warrior (even less is "Zargon" the "Zargon" from D&D current at the time, a hideous mutant! Morcar the historical figure is a dead end as well as Sargon the historical figure as connections to these fictional characters and their histories). He and Mentor don't figure at all in the canonical history of WHFB or WHFRPG circa '89-93 (somebody check me on that last one). But that doesn't mean it didn't happen! I love the speculation and attempts to fit it all together though (some even point to the fact that "Sigmar" is given as a suggested name for the Barbarian in 1st edition to somehow mean that the Barbarian in HeroQuest is Sigmar himself or a reincarnation... or that Rogar is a reincarnation of Sigmar, etc etc). Or the theory that Prince Magnus is Magnus the Pious.

If Warhammer Quest or Warhammer the Old World drops any easter egg references to HeroQuest, that would be pretty cool though. Anybody know?

[wallydubbs]

Still, would it really take Morcar over a millennium to plot his revenge? Years or decades, sure. Generations, even. Centuries, maybe. But over a thousand years of hanging out with his general beyond the Sea of Claws between his first invasion and his second? Seems dubious.

(The real answer to these questions is probably that the Heroquest background was written in a hasty off-the-cuff manner as befits a boardgame, riffing on existing Warhammer background, and the writers didn't really take time to make sure it fit together perfectly. See also the weirdness of Karak Varn's geography.)

Also, players more familiar with the North American edition might be scratching their heads over a few things above, especially with regard to Kellar's Keep and the Dwarves. This is because the NA questbooks stripped out quite a bit of flavour text in order to make room for pedantically saying "you must find the wooden exit door" over and over again.

You could probably fill in a brief portion of the thousand year time frame with Morcar licking his wounds and hatching other schemes that never came to fruition. The Sea of Claws, I believe , is to the North of the Empire. What's up north? Frozen Horror wasn't part of the European edition, but it can fit into the narrative as the Frozen Horror is an "ancient evil" and "heard its master's call," indicating that Zargon is the Frozen Horror's master. The Frozen Horror had been defeated in the past by Kalvenos, another Barbarian hero whose corpse was left in the mountain, now controlled as an undead. So it seems apparent that Zargon has tried this before.