are officially released HeroQuest versions compatible?

[Cael Darkhollow]

HeroQuest has been officially released over many years in many forms, but are they all basically compatible as part of the same game? What do YOU consider HeroQuest?
Is it all HeroQuest to you? Or do you exclude some official releases from what you consider HeroQuest?
Do you feel the different versions share the same game world?
Do you feel minor differences in rules or back story make them incompatible? Do you feel major differences in format such as the video Games or Card Game make them a separate version that conflicts or is incompatible with the main HeroQuest?
Some players will convert different versions for play under one rules format and consider all of that HeroQuest, do you?
Do you think any HQ versions have irreconcilable differences and should be kept separate as it's own rules system, mythos, background or version?
Which versions (with conversions to one rules set, background mythology, etc.) do you consider compatible HeroQuest?
Which version of HeroQuest do you consider the core version that the others should be converted to if possible?

Mark any you think should be kept separate as it's own version of HeroQuest, incompatible as released (without major conversion to the version of HeroQuest you prefer)

Discuss which version you feel is your "official version" that you would convert other releases to if possible.

[Cael Darkhollow]

I feel like the original 1989 HeroQuest release was the prototype version with many bugs and errors, the 1990 revised version of the European rules the beta test where solutions were worked out by many players in the field, and the North American version as the final refined version of the game.
I feel like the majority of the HeroQuest products can be converted to the NA rules system.
Has anyone converted quests like Mage in the Mirror and The Frozen Horror to the original European rules?
I use and play all of the original quests produced by Milton Bradley/ Games Workshop converted to the NA rules, and plan to for the new quests.

I feel like the Japanese version from what I have seen is a separate game and version and has a completely different world and mythos and should be kept separate (without major conversions)
Advanced HeroQuest while sharing the same world and mythos (and even some of the same characters if you look at the artwork and figures closely) has rules systems too different and should also be kept as a separate game but that I consider to still be HeroQuest.
The Hasbro 2021 version while it has minor conversions of rules, text and it's own general world, is compatible already basically using the NA rules system, and any background world changes can be effectively ignored.
The video games diverge considerably from the main game and should be kept separate.
The card game is an anomaly that is HeroQuest in theme only.

THe Habro 2021 versions are different enough that I feel they should have a separate room here at the inn to discuss, as we would quickly confuse which version any particular post is talking about if left all together.

Should current release versus original releases be considered? Is the new release now the "official" version, or is the original version always the "official" version and the latest rerelease is just that?

[Kurgan]

Depends upon what you mean.

If you mean "canon" then I guess there are desperate interpretations there. You'd have to come up with a new unified canon to make some of it fit. I am totally cool with there being multiple canons of a franchise, and to me HeroQuest is no different. It started out in the UK but they deliberately made it different in other territories like Japan and North America, virtually simultaneously.

If you mean compatible in terms of gameplay, well the video games and card game are going to be their own thing, but the other games would need some kind of unified ruleset. In creating a unified ruleset, you've created new rules. But the old rules don't go away just because a new ruleset exists somewhere or other, officially or not. I like the idea of searching "passages" (corridors) for treasure (once each per quest, rather than 4 searches each like rooms) in my hybrid rules that use the NA as a base.

If you mean can you play most quests out there with the physical elements without too much trouble? Absolutely, although translation may be necessary at times. That's what's so great about the game, it's very easy to customize and play all the great content others have created, and modify at will.

To my knowledge...
All of the EU and Japanese quests have been converted to NA rules.

The game has been translated into many languages... how many of those are using EU rules or NA rules I can't say.

Re: the NA exclusives, I'm not sure the quests have been converted to EU rules, but the cards (including monsters and artifacts) have been.

I'd love to see it continue and someone convert the 2021 remake to the EU rules (it'd be no different than converting the classic NA material, just a few extra spells and artifacts basically). More the merrier, I say. I can understand people wanting to own the new game but play it more how they were used to in the past with a different ruleset.

I'm inclined to see all of the officially released material as "canon" in some way (even if it all isn't completely non-contradictory with itself). Even if the Legacy of Sorasil was a little dull and I've never played AHQ but some people seem to love it. The Remake new quests had a lot of people worried but from what I've seen, barring some typographical errors, they seem perfectly playable and not too crazy in terms of deviating from established lore... and are easily adaptable to whatever ruleset one prefers.

[Cael Darkhollow]

Depends upon what you mean.

If you mean "canon" then I guess there are desperate interpretations there. You'd have to come up with a new unified canon to make some of it fit.

If you mean compatible in terms of gameplay, well the video games and card game are going to be their own thing, but the other games would need some kind of unified ruleset.

If you mean can you play most quests out there with the physical elements without too much trouble? Absolutely, although translation may be necessary at times.

All of the EU and Japanese quests have been converted to NA rules.

Re: the NA exclusives, I'm not sure the quests have been converted to EU rules, but the cards (including monsters and artifacts) have been.

I'd love to see it continue and someone convert the 2021 remake to the EU rules (it'd be no different than converting the classic NA material, just a few extra spells and artifacts basically).

As far as gameplay I think NA rules are the main HQ version that others should be converted to for uniformity.
As far as canon mythology I feel that the original games set in the Warhammer Old world compatible as published is the core canon, and variants that diverge such as the 2021 remake or are wildly different such as the Japanese system are not canon. Some products like the winter special, the novels, etc. that have perceived discrepancies can be considered semi-canon but need corrections.
Of course the mythology isn't necessary to play the game (never has been) and it can be generic such as the rerelease has done. (will we see that become established as a new mythology? Especially if there are future releases?)

We now have three major versions: European, North American, and Rerelease. Any of those could be considered their own separate version and have conversions done to fit or just use the products released for them.

[Cael Darkhollow]

Depends upon what you mean.

If you mean "canon" then I guess there are desperate interpretations there.
I'm inclined to see all of the officially released material as "canon" in some way (even if it all isn't completely non-contradictory with itself). .

I guess that is what I mean, all official releases are "canon" per se, but are they all really compatible, or do you feel some should be kept separate because they are too different?
Because of the differing rules we all play some sort of hybrid or conversion unless we only play the quests from what was released in each region/rules version.

As far as I know other foreign language versions are just that, the original game translated. The Japanese version is the only one that was a completely new game or new material using a unique version HeroQuest game system. It is totally different enough that it should be kept separate for me.
I think the video games (mainly the sequel) strayed far from what HeroQuest is, and some aspects of the remake such as the warlock and orc bard characters wildly diverged from what I consider HeroQuest too. (both the new characters can be ignored and left in the box or considered the same level as fan made material so not that big of deal I suppose.)

Do you consider the three main versions of HeroQuest (European, North American, and 2021 remake) basically the same or do you consider them different separate versions?

[lestodante]

I marked all the videogames and the Advanced (GW) HQ versions plus the Card Game because they are different games, you can not merge them with the classic one.
The Japanes edition is the same game too, but is located in a different world with different caharacters, but is still compatible. The 2 quests included in the Novels are also focused on different characters and alternate stories but they can be still palyable as any other custom quest. The same for the Brazilian quests (you didn't mention them) or the other publications (WD or MWS), they are just other quests. The way they play is the same with small differences, but is basically the same game.
I agree when you say the US version is the final revised edition, but I don't like they removed some interesting things like the "seeking" feature from the Fire of Wrath and reduced the power of Rock Skin (from 2 defend dice to 1) and the Talisman of Lore too. Also they removed the Holy Water (but was reintroduced in the 2021 release) and the "Nothing" treasure card.
The armory was also very bad in my opinion and easy to damage, so it is good they went back to the Equipment deck with the new version.

[Cael Darkhollow]

I marked all the videogames and the Advanced (GW) HQ versions plus the Card Game because they are different games, you can not merge them with the classic one.
The Japanese edition is the same game too, but is located in a different world with different characters, but is still compatible. The 2 quests included in the Novels are also focused on different characters and alternate stories but they can be still playable as any other custom quest. The same for the Brazilian quests (you didn't mention them) or the other publications (WD or MWS), they are just other quests. The way they play is the same with small differences, but is basically the same game.
I agree when you say the US version is the final revised edition, but I don't like they removed some interesting things like the "seeking" feature from the Fire of Wrath and reduced the power of Rock Skin (from 2 defend dice to 1) and the Talisman of Lore too. Also they removed the Holy Water (but was reintroduced in the 2021 release) and the "Nothing" treasure card.
The armory was also very bad in my opinion and easy to damage, so it is good they went back to the Equipment deck with the new version.

yeah, it seems the definitive HQ version is an amalgam of the existing versions based on the NA rules system.
It seems we will always be picking and choosing which to include and what we prefer like a salad bar, but certain things such as multiple monster body points, and spell card sets are the clear superior versions in my opinion.
I prefer the Old World mythology of the originals as a setting for the Quests but it is largely irrelevant to the actual game play.

I didn't include the Brazil magazine quests because they were not made or released by the makers of the HQ game (Hasbro, Milton Bradley, Games Workshop, Avalon Hill or with official licensing of the HeroQuest brand such as the Corgi novels, or the Marvel Winter Special) and thus are not official releases, but akin to fan made material with no official connection.

I see the Japanese version as a completely separate entity from the main HeroQuest. Kind of like Transformers, a U.S. toy brand and franchise with it's own in world mythology and continuity spin offs (like the movies, comics and cartoons) that were completely separate from the original Diaclone and Microman toy lines they used and were based on which were entirely different characters and themes in Japan. Japanese HeroQuest is a completely different game as far as I can tell in rules, mythology, etc. just happens to be using the same physical game components. True you could convert any of those quests and play them because they use the same board, tiles and monsters, but it really is a separate game.

[Zenithfleet]

*please read this in Simpsons Comic Book Guy voice*

The REAL HeroQuest to me will always be the EU 2nd edition. I deplore this modern American worldwide rules takeover of HeroQuest, right down to its silly 'Game System' subtitle. George Lucas's crimes against the original Star Wars trilogy are nothing compared to this! Worst. Edition. Ever.



*goes back to normal voice*

Actually I'm happy HQ is back again at long last in some form or another. Well done, Hasbro! But I do consider the EU version definitive... even though once upon a time I thought the NA version was superior and played it for a while.

The EU ruleset is aimed at a younger audience and is better suited to a family boardgame. The rules are simple and explained with economy, compared to the over-clarified NA rules with their constant Stop! and Important! and Exception!

Most of all, the design philosophy of the EU rules is fundamentally different. It encourages competition between the players--which we would have done naturally anyway as ten-year-olds used to playing typical boardgames like Ludo--and is balanced accordingly. At least in the base game.

The 1BP monsters are better suited for a game where your little brother runs off on his own to find the treasure before you do. If he meets a monster around the corner it'll be dangerous, but he stands a fair chance of surviving on his own. You also don't need to worry about keeping track of each monster's Body Points. If everyone is working together then yes, it'll be too easy, but not if you're trying to one-up everyone else. (And if you think the EU game is too easy, remember that if you lose your last BP you're dead on the spot--none of this 'last chance to drink a healing potion' business. It's the 80s--we don't tolerate that namby-pamby bubblewrap nonsense around here.)

Because of this, the NA and EU editions aren't really compatible right off the shelf. They need a bit of tweaking to go from one to the other because they're made with different philosophies in mind.

You can even see this in the official material. The Quests themselves weren't always ported properly to the NA ruleset, leading to odd things like traps in front of treasure chests (which made more sense in the EU rules, where it's implied that you open chests by walking up to them). The adaptation also committed some heinous crimes against the spirit of HeroQuest, like turning the optional gold mine quest in Kellar's Keep into a mandatory one. HQ is all about exploration! An entire hidden Quest is the greatest reward for exploration HQ ever did, and they changed it?! How very dare they!

As lestodante points out, the NA version also fiddled unnecessarily with a lot of minor things like Fire of Wrath, Holy Water, separating trap searches from secret door searches, etc.

And let's not forget that the NA version calls the bad guy a silly name. (Although it's probably a classic D&D reference.)

The two things that I really do think are better in the NA rules are:

- Extra Body Points for named boss monsters. Guys like the Witch Lord desperately needed this. Even the official EU game eventually agreed, and started giving multiples to the bosses in later Quest Packs.

- Chaos Spells. The EU game had to come up with awkward workarounds like the tokens in Ogre Horde because it lacked this sensible feature.

- Trap rules, which are better clarified in the NA rules. In the EU game you apparently spring the pit trap or falling block trap if you find it in a search, which is pretty daft. (Though a simple fix in the EU game is that when you find a pit trap or falling block trap, you place the trap tile upside-down to mark the un-sprung trap, allowing you to avoid it or disarm it.)

...wait, that's three things. Never mind.

Overall, though, the NA ruleset railroads the players into cooperating, and has to bump up the difficulty to compensate. The EU ruleset gives players the freedom to figure out their playstyle for themselves.

Anyway, I'm with Cael that the definitive background of HQ is the Warhammer-lite world of the original. But even though I don't much like the modern aesthetic and setting, I have to admit that coming full circle to D&D again is apt. The original HQ was pretty clearly an attempt at 'my first Basic D&D' as far as character classes go.

I'd love to see it continue and someone convert the 2021 remake to the EU rules (it'd be no different than converting the classic NA material, just a few extra spells and artifacts basically). More the merrier, I say. I can understand people wanting to own the new game but play it more how they were used to in the past with a different ruleset.

I really really want to see this done for the new Questbooks! Assuming Hasbro / AH doesn't get stroppy about it, that is... (I wouldn't mind having a go myself, but I don't have the new version.)

[iKarith]

Something I did not realize is that Hasbro owned Milton Bradley all the way back in 1986 or so. As such, they didn't just buy HQ and make changes to it as they felt they had to in order to re-release it without Games Workshop's Warhammer properties involved.

No, this game was Hasbro's all along. And Games Workshop considered it maybe Warhammer adjacent, but definitely not part of their world. (It might've been had the board game sent thousands of people flocking to their stores to buy AHQ and lots and lots of minis … but they didn't.

For retail stuff, Hasbro has made precious few changes to HQ's existing materials and mythology. The changes made are generally out of necessity since the GW partnership is absolutely gone, and they've absolutely got the right to retcon their own game.

Seems to me the canon is following the company and most players don't mind much. (Even if we prefer the Oldhammer art and minis.)

[Kurgan]

Basically the status is: "Assets 1989-1990 compatible." Cards & Rules, not.

The Japanese edition of 1991 will be missing a few cards present in the other editions (Artifacts) and have a few extra. The EU edition has equipment cards that are not present in the NA edition (though most of those objects are depicted on the Armory board). The NA edition has potions and bonus artifacts in the first two expansions not present in the EU edition.

The quest books for each edition are available on the Inn as well as the quest books. You can find all the quests converted to NA format on Phoenix's page (other than the Japanese quests which can be found in the threads by HispaZargon). Unique NA cards converted to EU format can be found on the Inn. EU style Equipment cards can be found converted to NA format also on the Inn pages. This is all before the remake.

If you own the 2021 Remake and wanted to play it with the EU rules, yes, you can set aside the modern rulebook in favor of a printed out "rules of play" and "quest book" from 1989 or '90. But the text on the game cards won't always match up, so you'll need to refer to scans or print out your own cards for those as several of them are different. The character cards you just need to keep in mind the combined Search mechanic (traps & secrets doors) and the starting weapons (dagger for Wizard, broadsword for Barbarian, shortsword for other two).

Other than that, everything will work, just pretend the Abominations are Fimirs and the Dread Warriors are Chaos Warriors and the Elf is a dude. I end up doing that most of the time when I have played with it anyway, even just from force of habit.

The cards are really the deal, so if you own the Remake or the 1990 NA edition and want to use the Japanese game or the EU game, print yourself an alternate set of cards (not just the rules and questbook) if you don't like referring back and forth.

The minis and board from the different classic editions are the same. The classic minis fit fine on the remake board (although the room tiles will be a little small, it's not hard to keep track of them, just keep in mind the squares themselves are smaller so might get a little cramped with the new minis on them).

As far as miniatures, the gargoyle and Abominations are cramped even on the remake size board, that's just how they are designed with the bits that hang out (that sounded bad, sorry).

But the remake furniture is the same size or even smaller than the cardboard+plastic ones of the original so work on the old board and the classic furniture on the new board don't look out of place at all.

Using BoardgamesMaker or MakePlayingCards I print fancy cards at 50 cents a card, or the local print shop can print a sheet of 9 cards for about 50 cents and then use a paper cutter or scissors to cut them to size, glue to cardstock (or if using sleeves, just slip the cardstock in between the two printed sheets). Some would print them directly to cardstock. Some like to use sticker paper, but lots of ways to do that.

This of course if you don't want to track down a vintage copy of the actual game to play it 100% authentically.