Ye Olde Inn

How do you guys deal with the situation where, during an ongoing series of quests, a Hero (or more than one) dies, but the rest of the group complete the mission successfully and escape?

do the downed Heroes get to cross the quest off the list and mark it as "completed" or do they have to replay it until they survive?

What happens with regards to gathered equipment and treasure carried by the downed heroes? is it lost?

is ONE surviving hero enough to clear a quest as a "win" for the good guys?

I'm mostly curious how everyone deals with this without having the one survivor (who ets to keep his stuff obviously) snowballing ahead of the others.

Severindrax wrote:How do you guys deal with the situation where, during an ongoing series of quests, a Hero (or more than one) dies, but the rest of the group complete the mission successfully and escape?

If the mission was completed and the objective obtained, there is no need to replay.

Severindrax wrote:do the downed Heroes get to cross the quest off the list and mark it as "completed" or do they have to replay it until they survive?

This is only really a question for the first 14 base quests in the North America version where you are called "Champion" if you complete them. I guess this is a problem, but who cares about titles anyways?

Severindrax wrote:What happens with regards to gathered equipment and treasure carried by the downed heroes? is it lost?

Generally, if the hero dies in a different room than other heroes (or outside LOS in a hallway), his equipment is taken by the monsters and lost forever. You cannot kill the goblin and recover it, it was wisked away by the same secret network from which wandering monsters appear. If they die in the same room, any heroes hoping to take the equipment must first clear the room of monsters. If a REQUIRED artifact is lost (like the Spirit Blade), EWP is supposed to make it findable again in a future quest before it is needed.

Severindrax wrote:is ONE surviving hero enough to clear a quest as a "win" for the good guys?

As long as surviving is not part of the stated mission objective, yes. In fact you can imagine objectives where survival is not required. For example, Sir Ragnar might escape but the heroes are all slain.

Severindrax wrote:I'm mostly curious how everyone deals with this without having the one survivor (who ets to keep his stuff obviously) snowballing ahead of the others.

Since that one survivor cannot use more than one sword, the new heroes generally get the old hero's equipment minus any upgrades the survivor would like to keep. The wizard generally gets all of his stuff back, because nobody else wants to waste a combat turn using a spell scroll.

In my games, the players don't get the same character every game. So there is a general agreement as to which character works best with which equipment (between missions).


The better question is. When you lose a hero in Kellar's Keep, where does this new hero come from? And if Metor can teleport a new hero in... he has a lot of explaining to do

I am going to add some more clarification to whitebeard's reply, if I may...

whitebeard wrote:

Severindrax wrote:How do you guys deal with the situation where, during an ongoing series of quests, a Hero (or more than one) dies, but the rest of the group complete the mission successfully and escape?

If the mission was completed and the objective obtained, there is no need to replay.

To be fair, it's only in the US version where heroes are forced to replay quests they don't complete. The GS missions are pretty much all stand alone, so there's no need to replay them in order for the later ones to make sense. Even for those that do, you can just weave in how the mission affects later ones, but in general, as long as the mission is completed by at least one hero, then it can count as completed.

whitebeard wrote:

Severindrax wrote:do the downed Heroes get to cross the quest off the list and mark it as "completed" or do they have to replay it until they survive?

This is only really a question for the first 14 base quests in the North America version where you are called "Champion" if you complete them. I guess this is a problem, but who cares about titles anyways?

Being a Champion started in the 1st UK edition, where if you completed THREE quests, you become a Champion, and are awarded an extra 500 gold coins. In this case, it had to be three quests completed by that hero specifically. In later versions becoming a champion was either dropped or didn't provide a reward, and I believe the US version is that you become a Champion if you complete all 14 quests in the GS quest book. Thus, I would argue that a hero who dies during a GS mission doesn't cross it off their list, as it's really more of a "perfect play" achievement in the US version.

That said, in MY current game on Roll20, I used the UK version of the rules, but have the party gain the title of Champion, and the 500 gold coin bonus, after the Legacy of the Orc Warlord quest. This sort of ties off the whole Ragnar/Orc Warlord section of the GS quests, and is useful if the heroes fail to recover their equipment from the dungeon before escaping.

whitebeard wrote:

Severindrax wrote:What happens with regards to gathered equipment and treasure carried by the downed heroes? is it lost?

Generally, if the hero dies in a different room than other heroes (or outside LOS in a hallway), his equipment is taken by the monsters and lost forever. You cannot kill the goblin and recover it, it was wisked away by the same secret network from which wandering monsters appear. If they die in the same room, any heroes hoping to take the equipment must first clear the room of monsters. If a REQUIRED artifact is lost (like the Spirit Blade), EWP is supposed to make it findable again in a future quest before it is needed.

In the UK version, equipment was immediately lost, regardless. In the US version, as whitebeard says, you get a chance to reclaim it if another hero is in the same room when they die.

That said, one of the more common houserules ignores this completely, and I have seen some people use things like dead body markers for fallen heroes and their equipment.

whitebeard wrote:

Severindrax wrote:is ONE surviving hero enough to clear a quest as a "win" for the good guys?

As long as surviving is not part of the stated mission objective, yes. In fact you can imagine objectives where survival is not required. For example, Sir Ragnar might escape but the heroes are all slain.

Yes. A lot of the GS quests do not require survival for the mission to be a success. Survival is usually only implicit in the expansions or other quests where the mission itself is basically travelling through the area to leave the board, such as with WotRL and KK. Even then, only one surviving hero is required.

That said, you may want to consider whether it's worth replaying a mission that the Heroes fail. For example, if the Heroes die one room away from the exit, then you might just want to move on to the next Quest anyway.

whitebeard wrote:

Severindrax wrote:I'm mostly curious how everyone deals with this without having the one survivor (who ets to keep his stuff obviously) snowballing ahead of the others.

Since that one survivor cannot use more than one sword, the new heroes generally get the old hero's equipment minus any upgrades the survivor would like to keep. The wizard generally gets all of his stuff back, because nobody else wants to waste a combat turn using a spell scroll.

In my games, the players don't get the same character every game. So there is a general agreement as to which character works best with which equipment (between missions).


The better question is. When you lose a hero in Kellar's Keep, where does this new hero come from? And if Metor can teleport a new hero in... he has a lot of explaining to do

It really depends upon how strict you are. In all honesty, there's very limited advancement, so snowballing ahead isn't too much of an issue. Quite often, if you have a cooperative party (or a single player controlling the party), surviving heroes may be willing to share some cash and equipment with replacements, possibly bringing them up to speed quite quickly. Even if the party is somewhat disjointed, they quickly learn that a cooperative party is vital to completing most quests,
and thus, efforts will be made to protect weaker party members as they get back into the game.

Plus, if the EW is an experienced GM, they will ALWAYS be prepared on how new heroes join the party between quests in places like Kellar's Keep. A common way is to take a leaf out of the RotWL quest pack and place the new hero(es) in the first room the existing party comes across...

whitebeard wrote:The better question is. When you lose a hero in Kellar's Keep, where does this new hero come from? And if Metor can teleport a new hero in... he has a lot of explaining to do

Hey, that's right--what's up with that?!

In KK prologue, Mentor wrote:. . . I shall take you to the Great Gate, but from there you will be on your own.. . .

In KK Quest 1, Mentor wrote:I shall guide you as far as the Great Gate.. . .

In the Quest Book epilogue, Mentor wrote:. . . I myself cannot act against these dangers (Zargon's army at KK and the Witchlord at Kelos), for I must move against Zargon and strive to weaken his power.. . .

Mentor is already occupied, so no lengthy travels for him; he either teleports the Heroes to Quest sites or guides them by messages.

Back to whitebeard's question about bringing in new Heroes, I figure Mentor must either use a magical gate as done in the Marvel Winter Special or cast a teleportation spell similar to Escape. Since Mentor uses Loretome to track and guide the Heroes, it would seem he can't teleport in a replacement Hero until Loretome updates the other Heroes' current, known location.

In the Instruction Booklet prologue, Mentor wrote:. . . Soon their plots will be ready and the Empire will have
need of a new Rogar. But where are the Heroes to equal him?
You have much to learn if you are to become as great as
Rogar and his companions.. . .

In Quest 12, Mentor wrote:War with the eastern Orcs is brewing and the Emperor needs to unite the lesser kingdoms for the conflict to come. To do this, you must find the ancient Star of the West as worn by the Kings of Legend in ages past.

It would seem the idiosyncrasies of Loretome (or Mentor) require history to repeat itself. Perhaps because of the unique significance Star of the West, the same number of Heroes (four) must always be sent against Morcar/Zargon to reliably defeat him, just as Rogar and his companions had done long ago.

Or maybe Mentor just has a hard time finding saps Heroes to do his dirty work for him.

Here is where the creativity and imagination come into play. I actually enjoy this part of trying to keep the campaign on track!


At great personal risk, Mentor opens the portal of time to prevent a terrible tragedy from taking place...

A wandering Ogre drags the (seemingly dead) Hero out of the dungeon. On the road, some of your allies bribe him to turn over the body where they nurse him back to health...

Transformed into a mindless zombi, your former comrade shambles towards you. Can you jab him with the magical antidote in time?

You find an elixir of life!

In the cell you find a captured adventurer. Free him and he will join your adventure!

A wounded adventurer is locked in combat. Come to his aide!

The Chaos Warrior's helmet falls off... it was a Hero under the effects of a command spell! "Where am I?"

You revive at the local Temple, though at the cost of all of your gold...

I am Gandalf the White...

How did you get up there? (It wasn't easy!) / Big Trouble In Little China

In NA rules, there must be a hero or merc in the room/corridor where the hero died or his gear is claimed by monsters.

Any lost Artifacts should be made as special treasures early in the next quest.

If there's a total party kill, Zargon is supposed to re-arrange the quest and run it again. The last adventurers sent on this quest never returned, succeed where they failed!

New Champion systems are possible. I give my heroes actual upgrades (and I like the 500 gold bonus) based on number of successful quests completed.

If you permanently die before your achievement, you just fail, but the ones who get it, get it. As long as the mission is accomplished, move onto the next one, I guess unless everyone really wants to do it again (then still re-arrange it so it's not boring/too easy).

Good point about Sir Ragnar being able to make it to the stairs, even if every hero is dead, and so the mission is technically a success.

Any experienced GM will be adept at handling TPKs and introducing new Heroes to the party, simply because in all of these cases, things like HQ, D&D, et al. are games, and therefore should be fun for the players to play. When a PC dies, the game stops being fun for the player of that character after a while, unless a new PC is introduced quickly. Most players will suspend their disbelief long enough to accept a new party member just being "found" if it means play can return to normal.

Thus, I don't think Mentor teleports in new Heroes in the case of RotWL or KK. Rather, new heroes are found as prisoners of the monsters between dungeons. If there's a TPK, then the quest pack is a failure, but the players may wish to try again in the future with a new party of heroes. This gives the GM the opportunity to revise the quest pack to take into account what the party already did...

You have inherited a small sum of gold from your relatives who perished on a dangerous quest... Take up the quest, and take your vengeance!


Succeed OR fail, it should be possible to run a quest or pack again, with a few tweaks and surprises to keep 'em guessing.

whitebeard wrote:The better question is. When you lose a hero in Kellar's Keep, where does this new hero come from? And if Metor can teleport a new hero in... he has a lot of explaining to do

I found another, explicit and official case of how replacement Heroes are brought into the middle of linked Quests:

Playing Against the Ogre Horde wrote:2. Playing the Quests as a Series

. . . If any of the Heroes are killed during a Quest, Mentor is
able to magically transport a new starting Hero to join the
party at the beginning of the following Quest.

Daedalus wrote:I found another, explicit case of how replacement Heroes are brought into the middle of linked Quests.

Playing Against the Ogre Horde wrote:2. Playing the Quests as a Series

. . . If any of the Heroes are killed during a Quest, Mentor is
able to magically transport a new starting Hero to join the
party at the beginning of the following Quest.

I was about to call Mentor a lying Bastard, but then realised that this was in AtOH, so maybe the Ogre Stronghold doesn't have the same protections as The Lair of the Witch Lord or Kellar's Keep. Or, maybe Mentor finally realised the usefulness of life-fuelled ankle tags on wayward heroes after the close shaves in previous adventures?

I have to ask though, is it just a single Hero per quest, or does Mentor do requests? "Hey, Mentor, can we get a Barbarian and a Wizard to go?"

Now we're talking! Loretome calculates that this particular Hero arriving at this time predicts a high degree of success of the mission sequence...

Mentor isn't all powerful, after all.

I liked the big life potions option for ATOH. Why don't they get those every time? Well, the materials are expensive, they take time to prepare, etc.