Ye Olde Inn

Today I decided to check on something that I always had a gut feeling about: treasure searches between the European edition and the US edition. As I've always played the European edition, I've never experienced the American edition. The main difference is the total amount of searches that can be performed, across all Heroes during the game. I've scanned the original Quest Book as well as those of the first two expansions and noticed that most quests use approximately 10 rooms, give or take a few, varying among quests. The amount of corridors shows roughly the same amount, but with a much wider spread - as low as 2 or 3 and as high as 15. This includes all those little nooks and corners that have just a single tile hallway, when a blocking tile has been placed one tile beyond a corner instead of directly around the corner of a hallway (which, by the way, is the primary reason for me to dislike the European rules on this aspect. I've also ignored pittraps as potential treasure hunting spots, because it seems to reward players for diving into a pittrap rather than to make them avoid that hazard).

Given this average amount, the European rules allow for roughly ~20 treasure searches on average with each quest, whereas the American version allows for pretty much double this amount. While the rules state that hazard cards have to be shuffled back into the pile and beneficial cards are removed once drawn, it does create a rather large skew between the two versions! Overall, I'd expect the American version to yield overall more treasure, creating richer Heroes, than the European version, simply because there's more to be found in the first place. That seems rather ... much?

The reason I did this is because soon me and my friends will likely make a run through the game and I'm scanning ahead for what rules would fit our group best. I intend to use Slev's Advanced revision of the rules, which seems to mostly lean on the American version. Since the European version used to be our standard, that is a significant difference. Of course, the American version also has the Apothecaries and with monsters having more bodypoints, it seems likely a lot of gold is being converted into potions when using the American rules. But does it compensate for the disparity between the number of possible treasure searches? Thoughts?

There's only 1 way to do this. Each room is limited to 1 Treasure search plus however items of furniture are in the room.

The NA version does not allow the treasure searches in corridors. Each Hero may search the same rooms, though seldom do. If a big treasure is not found in the room, then usually they move on.

I agree on the limiting to 1 search per room for those odd situations where they linger too long. (Or have an EW deck to make them hurry) Add the furniture search only if you use a separate deck.

j_dean80 wrote: Add the furniture search only if you use a separate deck.

I prefer to add it even with out the deck. It simply adds more point to pointless furniture. It doesn't have to be seen as a specifically searching that furniture, the gem in the boot could of been right under the table. It also works with how some furniture is quest specific, that room would still have it's standard search and the special search linked to the furniture in the quest notes. If there's a table and nothing in the notes, that's an extra search, pick from the standard deck.

An empty room is exactly that, dull and boring. A room with 2 bookcases and a chair would allow for 4 searches, 4 cards of the deck. Even better if you have a new deck printed. I don't like the idea of having different decks. I like to keep it simple.

The wandering monsters and the hazards are major obstacles if you want to milk the deck.
Having two good cards per bad card in the beginning is still ok. That favorable ratio changes quickly as the game progresses.

I did the same calculation like you, counting the rooms in some quests. I concluded that my treasure deck shall have 60 cards in total, twenty of them bad cards. Each time someone searches, I take the top ten or fifteen cards and fan them out. The other may choose one. Then I put all 10 or 15 under the treasure deck.

Bad cards stay, nothing stays, good cards are collected by the players.

Before the next game, I count the cards and then I refill up to 60 from my other treasure deck: I have a pile of 150 treasure cards with rares, uncommons and commons. From this deck I take some random cards to refill the treasure deck up to 60. Why? Because there were so many ideas floating around in the forums that I just couldn't avoid to make yet another one. Just one more. Only one yet.

Well, but there are two numbers important. The ratio bad - good and the total. The total number is important because it determines how fast the treasure deck gets too dangerous to use.

mitchiemasha wrote:An empty room is exactly that, dull and boring. A room with 2 bookcases and a chair would allow for 4 searches, 4 cards of the deck. Even better if you have a new deck printed. I don't like the idea of having different decks. I like to keep it simple.

I actually like this idea. Exclude corridors from searches and allow one search in each room, plus one search for each piece of furniture. That keeps things rolling and indeed makes furniture more interesting. A quick survey of the room, vs. a more detailed check of a piece of furniture sounds about right. If it turns out that money is too short, I can always change it on the run to use the standard 4 searches per room instead as per the NA rules.

Anderas wrote:Well, but there are two numbers important. The ratio bad - good and the total. The total number is important because it determines how fast the treasure deck gets too dangerous to use.

Well, yeah, I agree, but this is also something that I haven't decided on yet. The problem I have is that the treasure deck cards that we have, are worn from use back when we were teenagers. Furthermore, the downloadable material from some of the expansion packs we never had (Barbarian Pack, Elf Pack and Ogre Horde) contain new treasure cards. The only way around this "mess" of different cards would be to have a new set printed, of all treasure cards around. So far, I haven't found anything that is reasonably affordable, given the low quantity of cards.

As such, I've been thinking about a different, more pragmatic approach. My idea so far is leaning towards printing all treasure cards on sheets of paper and then having the players roll dice to determine which sheet and which card on that sheet they would have drawn, instead. It does veer away from the very base of the game as it would probably introduce a D10 or D12 to the game and furthermore, it doesn't discard any cards after being selected that way. As such, it wouldn't change the ratio of good vs. bad cards as the game progresses. I admit that I am a bit torn about it; I can understand it becoming more dangerous for the players to keep searching as time passes, as the danger increases, but from a more logical perspective, it doesn't make much sense that most treasures can be found at the beginning of the dungeon so to speak. I might throw off the balance somewhat on the sheets, by including more hazard cards than the normal deck would do so in the end it all averages out to roughly the same risk throughout a quest.

I used printerstudio. They were affordable and high quality.

Old decks can be bought quite reasonably off ebay. I bought a second deck and stuck some new print outs to the front of a few cards. If you want to print a deck yourself it's quite easy, especially with a corner cutter/punch, adds that finishing touch.

but from a more logical perspective, it doesn't make much sense that most treasures can be found at the beginning of the dungeon so to speak

The deck getting more dangerous with time, doesn't represent the lack of treasure deeper in. It represents the increased likeliness of set traps or a wandering monster, the monsters knowing of your presence. Don't forget that non of the treasure in the deck is the standard of actual treasure the heroes would be questing for (apart from the horde), everything else is random tat. The true treasure is always quest specific. It's also an essential part of the games mechanics, adding an extra piece of tension, especially if the potion of healing is needed and it's late on, not been found yet.

I wouldn't worry about lack of money as using multiple same weapons available (US style armoury), Heroes can resell their weapon at 50%, making it easier to upgrade. The Heroes can end up with too much money, that's why introducing Weapon Damage is another great mod.

Damage: Discard an equipped bought weapon when rolling Black Shields equal to its power.

A hero buffed with a potion, is more likely to break his sword.

Take a look at this https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzUqo ... FhLaG9hS1U It's a 1 page print out featuring all my essential mods. Kind of a best of all the ideas I've seen over the years and tweaked a bit.

Maurice76 wrote:Today I decided to check on something that I always had a gut feeling about: treasure searches between the European edition and the US edition. As I've always played the European edition, I've never experienced the American edition. The main difference is the total amount of searches that can be performed, across all Heroes during the game.

There's actually quite a few differences. I don't think we've got a topic just for a definitive list, surprising really.

In most cases it's better to stick with Europe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sQDb_EE0Wo

Anderas wrote:I used printerstudio. They were affordable and high quality.

Can you provide a bit more details as to which options you chose? I quickly browsed their website (am at work though at the moment, so can't spend hours to explore it ), but I didn't see straight away as to what the "HeroQuest Treasure Card" path would be .