A stat to spend: Fencing

[Anderas]

I am thinking about giving the game another dimension.

I was updating the wizard some years ago, much like slev, so that he can spend mind points and then keep the spells a little longer. Or have a bigger effect.

But that's just the wizard.

Seeing how much depth it adds to the game, I would like a similar thing for the others, too.
I have seen that str/dex thread over here, so I am not entirely alone with that idea.

This thread is for gathering some ideas about some kind of stamina or dexterity or endurance value, that the non-magicians can spend to achieve the one or the other small effect. It shall be rather limited so that the heroes think twice before using it, bit it should also refill slowly when not used at all.

I know that it is not very Heroquest-ish, but it would allow to develop a completely different dimension in the fighting characters. They could have the same body points, but the one has 2 to spend and access to heavy equipment, and the other has 4 to spend, but access to less heavy equipment only. In total they could be equals but with different play styles.

Many of you embody multi-attacks in their Heroquest. Up until now i always avoided it in my games and was generally also against it, because i feared what it could do to the quite fragile balance. A consumable new value could mitigate my fears for the balance: As you can do it only a limited number of times, the effect on the balance is not so crass.

Many of you know that i like multi-BP-Models, again for the balance. I prefer a lot to add some more BP over adding some defense dice. However, fights with many models that have many BP can get longer than one round, so the time is there to add multi-round skills.

Last, not least, this could be a trainable thing: As an expensive skill card or buyable amulet , additional of those points could be made available.
Also the skills itself can be skill cards: No Hero needs to know them in the beginning, for the soft take-off. Later in the game, when they learn those skills, they have the rule on a card so they need to memorize nothing.

Things you could do with this... i call it in the absence of good words for the moment:

Run
Add a die to your movement without losing your attack
action. Announce this before you roll for movement.
Cost 1

Recover
Cost: Your Action
Get back one spent .

Dodge
Spend 1 for each two defense dice you want
to use in dodging. Roll those dice. If a single shield
shows in the dice roll, you get no damage. Move your
model one field to the left, right or backward. If there
is no open space to move to, you cannot dodge.

Wriggle
Slip between two diagonal standing enemies. If you know
how to dodge, you can also dodge when there is no
free space adjacent.
Cost 1

Riposte
If you just defended an attack with one or more skulls and
you lost 0 BP , pay 1 : You may add
2 white dice next time you attack this model. If your
opponent was making a series, it is stopped it with a
riposte.
one handed weapons only

Sally
If you just had a Riposte, pay 1 and double the
number of skulls rolled in the next attack. If the target
is killed, move your model to the target's field.
one-handed weapons only

Feint
If you just attacked but rolled 0 , declare
that this was a feint anyway. Pay 1 . Next time you
attack this model, you may roll 2 attack dice more.
one handed weapons only

Cleave
If you just attacked a model and you killed it, you can
cleave: Pay 1 and attack another model that
is adjacent to the killed model and in range.

Big Chop
Before rolling for attack, pay a number of . For
each , add an attack die to your roll. For each
die you add, you must roll one fewer defense die until it is
your turn again.
Two handed weapons only

Series
If you just made a Riposte followed by an attack or a
Series, you can pay 1 move on the space
the target just occupied. If your target survived, move it
backward by one space. Then make another Series
attack.
If your target makes a riposte, the series stops: you cannot
continue to pay for more attacks.
one handed weapons only

Well... this thread is about ideas. Do you think it is a good idea? What would you do with such a value? What name would you give to it?
How many of those would be appropriate - 3, 4? BP divided by 2? rounded down or up?
Or a value independent from BP and MP, a real third skill?
What reload mechanism? A dedicated action like search, disarm: Rest - gain one ? Certain is, you need then an EWP deck to have a soft pressure on the Hero group not to rest eternally. I get it anybody who was updating his Heroquest was also adding the EWP deck, so this shouldn't be the problem.

Certain is, the Heroes get better through this, but only a limited amount of time. When those are spent, it will become more difficult again.

[Anderas]

So i concretized the ideas a little bit.

I would probably start with a basic skill set that they can buy at a fencing teacher.

After they can buy one for one additional points ( maximum to be tested) and additional skills... Another money sink found!

However, the tremendously silent answer from the forum tells me that you somehow are not fully ok with my proposal?

The fencing teacher (new settlement location for people playing with settlements)

Basic fencing lesson
Cost: 100 gold
Roll one white die per mind point. If you roll at least one black shield, you have learned basic fencing. You can learn basic fencing only one time.

Basic fencing teaches you how to watch your stamina during fights:
Note two stamina points. ; and learn "Recover".

Also, you learn basic skills. Take the card for "Run".
Roll an additional Attack dice:
: Take the "Wriggle" skill card
Take the "Feint" skill card
Take the "Cleave" skill card

Advanced fencing lesson
cost: 300 gold
Take one of those options:

Widen
Take one of the basic fancing skill cards you don't know yet. ("Wriggle", "Feint", "Cleave")


Deepen (only one time)
Roll one white die per mind point. If you roll at least one black shield, you have learned advanced fencing.
Note another Stamina point.
Choose one of the advanced skill cards: Dodge, Riposte or Big Chop.

Master fencing lesson
cost: 500 gold
Roll one white die per mind point. If you roll at least one black shield, you have learned advanced fencing.
Note another Stamina point

Take one of those options:

Widen:
Take one of the advanced fencing skill cards you don't know yet.. If you already know master fencing, you may also take one
of the master fencing cards you don't know yet. (Sally, Series, 1 more up to a limit of 6)

Deepen (only one time)
Roll one white die per mind point. If you roll at least one black shield, you have learned master fencing.
Note an additional stamina points.
Also, Choose one of the master skill cards: Sally, Series, one more (up to a limit of 6)

[Daedalus]

You have a developed system. People post less when there's less to add. It looks like you're near playtesting. At first all the choices felt overwhelming, but once they are organized into a progression system it all is easier to digest.

I haven't considered all of the fencing skill cards carefully, but one thing about progression stood out for me. It will be more expensive and take longer for a combat-oriented Barbarian to get advantage while a combat-weak Wizard will gain fencing skill more easily. That is contradictory to what the Heroes represent, in my opinion.

Are you intentionally providing greater buff options for the Wizard and Elf to allow those Heroes a greater combat role? If the Dwarf and Barbarian were allowed to progress in magic skill in some way that was cheaper and easier for them than the Wizard and Elf, then that would balance out, I think.

[Anderas]

Hehe,
In the beginning it was not at all ripe. I just edited the posts and added to them until i thought they might be worth testing.

Your remark about the wizard is a really good one. I thought about the elf as "sweet spot" for fencing because I feel that all this small arms dancing would be quite elfish. It is not at all intended for the wizard.
But, then I added cleave and such, so now there is something for every fighting hero in there.

Hm back to work then. Thanks for the remark.

I would like to have some disadvantage for low mind point models there, but on the other hand I would also like that those combat-ish heroes have something to spend their money on once they are fully equipped. And I am not only talking about money for scouts to trigger the falling block traps.

[Daedalus]

Just throwing this out there--instead of a new stat for the resource, tie the skills to Body Points. This would more exactly mirror the use of Mind Points, the other expendable score. If you do this, the Barbarian and Dwarf will get fewer tricks, but they may use them more often. A player with Body Points reduced from combat will be forced to decide between slogging away or risking moves that temporarily gain advantage but also risk a quicker death. The extra tension of pushing your luck should prove interesting.

[Daedalus]

I dug out a set of old houserules that mitigates the Body Point penalty from the post above. It's just another way to go. Maybe you can adapt some part for your abilities, though my guess is you want less clutter.

Exertion Markers
Special abilities that grant bonus combat dice may be performed by gaining Exertion Markers. Exertion Markers may be removed by not taking an action or moving for a turn. Roll a red die and remove one Exertion Marker with the following rolls: Barbarian and Dwarf 5+, Elf 6+, Wizard 7+. Accruing Exertion Markers can cause a Hero to become Tired and then Spent.

Tired
If a Hero's Exertion Markers equal or exceed his current Body Points, he is Tired. While Tired, the Hero must reroll Combat and movement dice, accepting the second roll if lower.

Spent
If a Hero's Exertion Markers are double or more of his current Body Points, he is Spent. While Spent, a Hero must reroll dice as if he was Tired. A Spent Hero may no longer gain Exertion Markers. Instead, the Hero reduces his Body Points by 1 when performing abilities that give bonus dice.

Dwarven Spirits
Cost: 50, 100, 150, or 200 Gold Coins
This fiery liquid fortifies your stamina. It's potency and cost are denoted by one to four Xs. When rolling to remove an Exertion Marker, a Hero gains +1 to his roll for each X, up to +4. One cask lasts one full Quest.

Since you use an Evil Wizard deck, the regain rate of Exertion Markers might be too slow, particularly if Dwarven Spirits aren't available. The rate could be increased by rolling two red dice instead (movement for another purpose.) Markers could also be regained without a roll, as with your system that begins with a purchased number of uses.

[Anderas]

As I called my stat for the time being because I was not sure how I would like to call it, I am perfectly fine with that proposal. I would go further and add that you must rest when you are spent.

The regain rate is fine if you just give your action for regaining. That one was tested with my wizard in combination with my ewp deck, after all. So no need to roll and you only spend the action.

Your system has the charme that you don't need to put markers on the table when you start, instead you get them during the game. That reduces the time between deciding to play and actually start the game. For me it is an important point, so I will adopt it.

The tired status is quite deadly already. Did you test that one? By feeling I would currently go for rerolling only one die.

[Daedalus]

I get why you'd prefer to nix the roll that removes Exertion Markers. It takes more time and works counter to buffing the Elf, something you want out of your ability system. Since your Evil Wizard deck works, dropping the roll is best.

The Tired status hasn't been playtested, so try what you think will work. You can always up to a reroll later. Another thought for Tired was a one-die penalty for attack, defense, and maybe movement rolls. Another, another thought was Spent works like being In Shock.