Ye Olde Inn

So is it just me or does anyone else think the Dwarf is just plain better than the Barbarian?

Both can wear the same gear, same armor, same combative strength...

Only difference.... Dwarf can disarm traps at the cost of ONE less body point, but he also HAS one more mind point...

Errrrrr

Body is the number 1 attribute of the game. Every single B.P. matters.
Also, Barbarian can disarm traps, not equal success to the Dwarf's but he can (Tool Kit).
It's not easy to balance everything. Afterwards, there are many artifacts that change
their stats such as Talisman of Lore, Armband of Healing, Rabbit Boots etc.

The Barbarian is the better starter hero for playing just a single quest or two with new heroes.

But in the long run, yes the barbarian is getting shafted.
While Sotiris is right in BP being the most important stat, I just don't think it's worth it.
The barbarian is supposed to be the superior fighter, but since attack is strictly weapon based, even the Elf can become as good a fighter as him.

The barbarian should always throw one more attack die than what his weapon normally allows. That would balance him out in my opinion.
Either that or there should be some superior weapons only available to him.

He DOES have the barbarian-only amulet of the North which grants him +1 MP and +2 BP
So if we imagine two heroes ultimately equipped we would have:

Barbarian
Borin's armor, Helmet, Shield, Toolkit, Talisman of Lore, Spirit Blade, Amulet of the North.
10BP, 4MP, 3A, 6D - Disarm traps on any shield.

Dwarf
Borin's armor, Helmet, Shield, Talisman of Lore, Spirit Blade
7BP, 4MP, 3A, 6D - Disarm traps on anything but black shield.

So in the end the price the dwarf pays for his superior disarming skill is 3 BP.
But it all comes down to the Amulet of the North, which I dare say most players won't be using.

If you feel the Dwarf is the more powerful all-around hero, we're on the same page.
It's why I did this:
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1548&p=17262&hilit=combat+stats#p17262

The dwarf trap disarm skill is useful for the whole party though, not just him.

I know I’ve said this before but I think giving the barbarian an extra attack dice so that he can spend 250GP to attack with four, 350GP to attack diagonally with four and 400/450GP to attack with five is very OP. It makes him less balanced in the other direction in my opinion. Giving him bonuses like being able to use a battle axe one handed or raising his BP to 10 I think a much better solutions, or introducing other weapons that are either just for him or better for him.

I have all kinds of weapon/armor restrictions.
Case in point, the Berserker (Barbarian, Slayer, Pit Fighter):
"You cannot use ranged weapons. You also cannot use any equipment card that lets you add more than 2 combat dice to your Base Defend."
The equipment card Chainmail "lets you add 2 combat dice to your Base Defend", for example.

My Barbarian may attack with 5 dice, but he'll never roll more than 4 to defend if he chooses the Battleaxe (5 if he doesn't; but then only 4 attack).
Plus, he has to go into close combat to attack.
Of course, the wording allows for some posiibilities with artefacts, which makes them interesting and worthwhile quest objectives (Borin's Armor).

For me, giving the barbarian the 1 Base Attack instead of 0 as the other heroes is the only remedy against underpowering the poor guy. Adding Body points, even as a way of advancement, is not the way to go, because when heroes gain maximum BP, the whole EWP play and strategies have to be adjusted. It would mean underpowering the EWP.
Believe me, I've put a year of thought and playtesting into this. Of course it's all balanced within all my changes. You obviously can't just go and say "Well, let's give the barbarian one more attack die."

This starting stat breakdown of mine was the very first step to diverify the heroes and offer them gameplay strategy opportunities to go with restrictions serving the fantasy cliché hero classes.

I would certainly have no problem with a GM wanting to house-rule something like this:
- The barbarian can choose a weapon type (broadsword, axe, crossbow, etc.) and get +1 AD with that type.
- The barbarian attacks as normal with NO weapon, using 1 AD with his fists (because of size and strength).

This might even things out just a touch in the long run. Granted, the dwarf might not stack up for BP when
decked out with every artifact available - but not one character is going to hold ALL artifacts. And, to be
honest, I would vote against the dwarf being able to use the Spirit Blade - it would just be too long and
hard to wield well for the dwarf. (yes, I know...I said long and hard... )

This is why some minor role playing can come into play to make things more interesting. Dwarves have
a natural hatred for goblins, and vice versa - so, any goblin will immediately attack dwarves, and the
dwarf should go for goblins whenever possible. Maybe add in a rage factor for the barbarian, perhaps
if he drops to 1 or 2 BP, or if he loses more than 2 BP with a single attack...something like that.

Maybe come up with some dwarf-only artifacts to toss into the game. Allow the dwarf to reset
a trap differently, then it can hit monsters. Of course, to do that, the GM would have to play fair
and either have a stupid monster hit it at some point, or require a search roll to find the trap or to
notice that the trap has been changed.

Add in a language factor - the barbarian and dwarf might both know the Common Tongue. The barbarian
would know his own tongue, and the dwarf would know his, and make use of it somewhere with a puzzle.
If you're playing Kellar's Keep - maybe the dwarf is the only one who can guide the heroes through...he has
to find the right markers to find the next door, and only he can read the stone map that must be found.

There are lots of ways to make each hero stand out...and a GM should utilize as many as possible, as many
as can be thought up and implemented...they don't have to change the rules a lot, but they allow each hero
to shine at some moment or another, and the players will be all the happier for it when it is their turn.

knightkrawler wrote:http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1548&p=17262&hilit=combat+stats#p17262

I didn't realise you'd written some in depth hero rules, I missed that topic. I'll read that later.

I think the best options for people who want a quick fix without introducing new items is to give him one extra attack dice but not allow him to use a crossbow or wear armour (but still able to use a shield and helmet), and/or let him use a battleaxe one handed, that's handy.

Gold Bearer wrote:

knightkrawler wrote:http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1548&p=17262&hilit=combat+stats#p17262

I didn't realise you'd written some in depth hero rules, I missed that topic. I'll read that later.

I think the best options for people who want a quick fix without introducing new items is to give him one extra attack dice but not allow him to use a crossbow or wear armour (but still able to use a shield and helmet), and/or let him use a battleaxe one handed, that's handy.

In that thread, only the first post is still relevant in my ruleset, but you may find more interesting tidbits there.

I like the +1AD for the Barbarian. I really do. But I can't get away from the nagging feeling that it ever so slightly undermines the genie spell card. The wizard doesn't have much going for him but if he has the wind spells, and I think he usually should*, he has the single strongest attack in the group

knightkrawler, have you done any editing to the spell system or do you use it as is?


* in my humble opinion the elf should always start with the earth or water spells. Effectively meaning he starts the game with 10bp but may choose to donate 4 to any other hero. If he takes the fire or wind spells then he is just sticking two fingers up at the wizard