Ye Olde Inn

(This is part inquiry/part rant, so bear with the longish text to follow...)

The past two games, I feel like one of my players has had a serious beef with the way I run the game! I don't know if this is all about something else, but I wanted to share my experience here. He's currently playing as the Wizard.

(For some background, this player was a barbarian in the last campaign, and turned against the party right away, "to add to the story." I killed off that character immediately for that, and yes, a rogue undead barbarian that hunts the party later on did add to the story, but I think the other players have always been dubious that something like that might repeat. He likes to roleplay as a "trickster," no matter his character, whose engages in antics that "move the plot along," but lately, that roleplaying has gotten a little too meta for me.)

I have "nerfed" the previous house rules I had for Heroes. They got too strong too fast last campaign. The players grumbled a bit, but took it in stride. After our recent games, it seems everyone (problem player included) has had a good time, (they clap at the end of each and say, "good quest!" it's very reassuring) but at the moment when the problem player has a disagreement with me, I feel genuine hostility from him. In general, he makes vocal complaints like, "Zargon won't tell us that," or "Zargon won't let us do that." For example, one quest required they find a certain number of ingredients for a tonic, and there were clues in the dungeon as to what the ingredients were, and how many to find, but he expected me to tell them all the info right away, or to inform them if a secret room existed below a pit of quicksand, etc. Not sure if one of those problems could be fixed with better quest prompts, but there are other things about his behavior.

1) When I tell them what squares are dangerous after a trap search, this problem player attempts to mark those squares by placing his dice on the squares. When I told him he couldn't do that, he said "Well, this is my table, I'll draw on the table if I want!" And marked his table with a pencil pointing to the square.

2) When I take control of a player's character with the Control Chaos spell, the house rule of the spell is I tell the player to move the figure, according to my direction. One player said he liked this aspect, that if felt more like the spell really was controlling the character. When I asked my "problem player" to move his figure when I took control, he flat-out refused. "NO, you move the figure!" At this point, I was getting tired of these game-breaking arguments, and when he continued to refuse, I said he could suffer "psychic body damage" if he continued to refuse. He finally moved the figure, but it was a noticeable moment of meta-game tension for everyone present.

Sooo in conclusion, I feel like this behavior is very childish (he's 24!) and it's hard for me not to treat that behavior accordingly. I'm not a dad, and I don't want to be this guy's dad. Some of my explanations for the way things are is that yes, this is a game. Do I need to explain that? There are certain rules and challenges. So, deal with it! Work within the game to find a solution. Don't meta-game. He owns a Heroquest system, so I know he has desires to run a game himself, so there's possibly some tension there. I have enjoyed games he's hosted, but they've only been one-offs. I'm managing a campaign that will have at least 14 quests, so I need there to be some consistency to keep the challenge alive, and to prevent too many player suggestions from becoming new house rules.

We most always have the game at this problem player's apartment, so maybe he feels a sense of entitlement there. He even shouted, "this is my apartment!" Maybe he's getting tired of hosting. I don't know. A lot of his humor and jokes come from being stubborn, or pretending to be stubborn, but when it spills over into the game negatively, it's not so funny. I also think he kind of likes the negative attention? I feel like the next time his behavior slows down a game, I'll have to take him outside and talk it out.

He's my friend, so I want to be friendly about it, but dang. It makes my job a lot harder as the Evil Wizard. Thanks for this space to vent. Phew!

At best, attack on all angels at the same time.
Host the game in your place. Talk with him about this, sandwitch your message with two nice things so he doesn't get upset, and make sure someone else, too, says something next time if possible.

There are two sides to every story... But your player really sounds like a jerk!

To me it sounds like he is trying everything in his power to go against you. I wouldn't rule out it's something personal.
These things can start out as some little annoyance he sees in you, but suddenly everything you do is just wrong and offensive in his eyes.

Have you spoken to the other players? Maybe one of them know what is really going on?
Or better yet, just take the confrontation and ask what is wrong. It's unpleasant, but so is his behavior.
Remember to be friendly, polite and calm about it; usually works best.

Alternatively just cut your losses and stop playing with him.

Thanks for the sound advice, friends. Aderas and Goblin-King, you both have some wise heads on your shoulders

I've been chatting with my friend, the "problem player." I started by asking if he's been enjoying the game so far, which I think he knew was a leading question haha, but I think it's coming out now, in a friendly conversational way: he's tired of being the wizard. He misses slaying monsters! Once you go Barbarian, it's hard to go back, as they say.

I can't fault him for trying out a new character, but I don't think I can force him to enjoy himself if he's made up his mind he's not wizard material.

An idea I've had is to work with him to write in a transformation quest, where he loses some spell caster abilities, but gains some fighter abilities. The party has 3 other magic users, the Elf, the Bard, and the Monk, so I don't think they'll hurt from it. Hmm...

The bard is already part-rat, with a movement bonus so another oddball to the mix could be fun.

EDIT: More talking, and I think I can convince him to stick it out as a regular Wizard. He's been squandering his gold on mercenaries who die quickly, so he is feeling that being "tougher" individually will help him stay in the game. Alternatively, he's not feeling like he's an integral part of the group, and I'm sure he would love to "lone-wolf" it, but there are benefits to helping your quest palz. Hmmm... hiding a Wizard's staff in the next quest might grease the wheels... These are just ideas, I shouldn't do anything too hasty, I feel like we'd be getting right back into overpowering this hero by too much placating.

I actually like point 2... You said move your character, he resisted, you then said he would take damage, this is almost like trying to fight the mind control but the pain got tooooo strong so resistance was futile, leaving him no choice.

My answers to these problems have been varied depending on the violator. But the one that sticks out in my memory most at this moment is the day I handed the offender the GM screen and said "You win all the experience points, all the gold and silver and you are a god, Game over you win. I quit." Then I cleaned off the game board and started to get ready to go home.
The other players were so pissed at him that the problem self solved. He shut up and played nice next time.

I can't speak about the rest of the situation, but players who actively work against the group, fight other characters,
steal from other characters, and that sort of behavior is something I would not stand for. A D&D group I was with had
a couple of those types of characters. I never got to DM with them enough to have to worry about it, luckily, but if a
player was doing that in my group, I would tell them it needs to stop or they would not be invited back.

I have stated my idea about the game numerous times before - the characters in HQ, and, for the most part, in most
other games, are supposed to be heroic. At least a little bit, any how. Actively working against the party of characters
is not heroic. Even characters that are thieves, rogues, necromancers, power-hungry wizards...they are all with the
group for a reason, and need to work with the group until they leave (at which point that character is out of the game).
And if the other characters in the group are going to be heroic, then those characters need to be team players and be
heroic, too - or else the world around them will not see the group as a party of heroes.

torilen wrote:I can't speak about the rest of the situation, but players who actively work against the group, fight other characters,
steal from other characters, and that sort of behavior is something I would not stand for.

Depends.
I'm coming from RPG, as well as many of my friends, and I like the coopeartive style best and have never played HQ in a competative way, but I think it is by all means possible and could be fun for a change ever now and then.
The (original) European rules provide for a competitive game, as they expressively allow to attack other heroes (p. 8), as opposed to the NAmerican rules, which allow heroes to attack monsters only (p. 13), which is compensated by tougher monsters (more body points).

I fully concur with Big Bene.
In the right spirit with the right friends, a hero turning hostile can be lots of fun.
This has happened when a player opened too many doors or sniped too much of the treasure.
The result is usually the other heroes ganging up against the renegade. Good times

But it's always ingame. Never to indirectly hurt the player.

Goblin-King wrote:But it's always ingame. Never to indirectly hurt the player.

Of course, and this is true for all games there are.
I wanted just to set Torilen's statment into context, not advocate the bad manners of GimmeYerGold's friend or any other player.
Not knowing the difference between game and life not only hurts life, it also hurts the game.