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Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby The Hemogoblin » April 6th, 2014, 7:27 pm

Hey folks!

I'm brand new to these boards! I discovered it while amassing my complete HQ collection for posterity's sake and you've got some of (if not the) best resources around!

I searched the forums for a discussion on the 25th Anniversary project that Gamezone is working on but all I could find were topics from November of last year. So, since their crowdfunding was successful and it's currently in the works, I thought I'd revive the discussion!

First and foremost, I want to state that I absolutely cherish the original HeroQuest and all of its expansions more than any other game. HeroQuest is the reason I play games. It was my gateway game and it will always be very, very special to me. I dealt with a lot of illness throughout my childhood and adolescence and HeroQuest was my therapy, my escape. So I cannot stress enough how much this collection of plastic, paper and cardboard means to me.

Now with that said, from what I've read on these forums, the reception for the 25th Anniversary didn't seem to be very warm. I am on the completely opposite end of the spectrum; I haven't been more excited for anything in a very, very long time. I know that when the Kickstarter campaign was active, the drakk hit the fan. People were upset with the gaps between stretch goals and the question of legality, and the fact that English was not their first language led to miscommunication and well, typos that would otherwise place skepticism on professional competency. And then Moon Design entered the picture, but that's a whole other opportunistic (though perfectly within their rights) ball of wax.

One thing that bugged me about the negativity from some people is that they didn't want a "third party" to have anything to do with a re-release of any kind. However, it has been clear for a very long time that neither GW or MB have any desire to do right by those of us who carry the flame. Heck, people even signed a petition for it. That is why I was so happy it was an established company with over a decade of experience in the gaming community that took the reins. As the campaign went on, it became clear to me that Gamezone was incredibly sincere in their desire to recreate HeroQuest and that they were a group of fans like the rest of us who are so passionate about the game.

For those that don't know, the campaign moved to a Spanish crowd-funding site called Lanzanos where it was successfully funded. I should also mention that though they started the funding at $0.00 (obviously) they kept the previously unlocked stretch goals to thank those that continued to support it, and they narrowed the gap to $18k between goals (it was about $30k-$50k on Kickstarter). The stretch goals they came up with are pretty cool - they're divided into "Acts" which are like mini-expansions each with their own quest book and theme.

For those who stopped following the campaign once it fell off the radar post-Kickstarter campaign, these are some of the features and alterations they'll introduce (with links!):

- "Heroic Cards", feat type cards for Heroes to use to better their odds. Also, "Fateful cards" (can't find a link) If I recall correctly, they're more like one-shot events that happen in special circumstances.

- Obviously we all know it's resin everything, but If you haven't seen the bookcase/hutch check it out here. Also, there is some serious flexibility and interchangeability to these pieces.

- A big one regarding the plot: That Morcar and Zargon are actually agents of a greater Evil, a being known only as "She" Also, miniatures for all three villains; Morcar, Zargon, and She.

- Two characters to pay homage to those of us who grew up with HeroQuest.

- As you know, a double-sided board, one side the classic HeroQuest and the other an outdoor ruin and several double-sided boards. Also, they had modular boards available as an add-on.

Okay, this list is slowly devolving into a list of basic features you would assume to be included but one thing which is neat is that the quests will apparently be structured with different outcomes and paths to follow like a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure. Sorry if most of these things were stuff you were aware of; I can't remember what was added after Kickstarter!

I find it difficult to understand how someone can say "HeroQuest doesn't need to be revisited! It's great the way it is and doesn't need new rules and features!" but then they make all kinds of new content themselves and play with home-brewed rules and frequent sites like this one for all of it's (excellent) fan-generated content. I mean, at the very least we're getting a whole new set of awesome miniatures and environment pieces to play with, and even if someone doesn't like the rules, they can use whatever ones they like with said pieces. It's really no different than it is right now. Heck, the UK and North American versions themselves are nearly two different games considering the difference in rules! And if it were simply a re-release with exactly the same rules that people wanted, why not just use the classic rulebook anyway?

So I suppose the question I put to you folks is this: Is there a difference between someone like you and I - amateurs who love the game - creating new features and house rules in our spare time and sharing them with our fellow homebrew players vs. a professional project with similarly altered rules and new features with the intent to create a fresh take available to the general public and a new generation of players?

Who knows, the rules they produce might suck. The great thing however, is they're letting the community playtest them far before they're printed so if there's anything that is really, really, bad then chances are it will be rectified before release. I'll give Gamezone this: they seem to have the very utmost respect for the community and were constantly asking for their input and perspective throughout the campaign.

Now obviously, I have an overall positive view of this but that's not to say I don't have my arguments. First of all, while I like the art style, I would have rather had a more "realistic style" like the box art of the classic game - that's was a big disappointment for me. Also, as many people have suggested in forums like these, making the hallways one square wider would have been awesome.

Anyways, I'm very happy I found Ye Olde Inn and hopefully I can participate in keeping our beloved game alive! :)

Happy Questing!
-T
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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby Sjeng » April 7th, 2014, 12:52 am

Hi and welcome to our forum!

I'll not start welcoming you by spewing my hatred towards GZ, but the "established company with over a decade of experience" is just one guy trying to make a profit from someone else's game.
And the reason it doesn't need to be remastered, is because we can make so many additions ourselves. If anyone was going to rerelease HQ, it should be vanilla, with perhaps a few clarifications to the older rules that were ambiguous.

But enough of that. Enjoy your stay at the Inn!
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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby The Hemogoblin » April 7th, 2014, 4:13 am

Thank you for the welcome, Sjeng!

I do agree that a straight-up vanilla game would be best, or even Advanced HeroQuest. Or even Warhammer Quest. Just anything but Descent, really. Although I hear 2.0 has improved it some...
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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby tasoe » April 7th, 2014, 4:20 am

The Hemogoblin wrote:- A big one regarding the plot: That Morcar and Zargon are actually agents of a greater Evil, a being known only as "She" Also, miniatures for all three villains; Morcar, Zargon, and She.
Ok, that's just plain awful creativity right there. First of all, Morcar and Zargon are the same person, they should pick a name (preferably Morcar since they are Europe) and go with it.
For the "She" thing, I can't decide which part is more out of place. The conception, the name, or the sexy pussy-showing miniature (that by the way looks nothing like a demon as they say she is).
I can't imagine anyone embracing this idea, it's not HeroQuest, it's not creative, in fact, I will take the liberty to call it stupid.

That being said, I welcome you to the Inn as well. You will see a lot of that around, we don't tend to agree on most things here.


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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby Goblin-King » April 7th, 2014, 5:33 am

Agree fully with tasoe here. Haven't really been paying attention to HQ25 until hemogoblin brought this subject up.
But "she" is so out of place as virtually possible. If I saw that mini and should guess what game it belonged to I would never have guessed HeroQuest!

I've probably said it before, but my big problem with this game is that it doesn't really feel or look like HQ. The above being a prime example. I can't use it with my old stuff.


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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby knightkrawler » April 7th, 2014, 10:05 am

What tasoe and Sjeng said, wholeheartedly.
I welcome you nonetheless. |_P Have fun.
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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby Maike05 » April 7th, 2014, 12:39 pm

[Troll mode = on ]

BEWARE CHAOTICPRIME IS COMMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :barbarian: :barbarian: :barbarian: :barbarian: :barbarian:

[Troll mode = off]


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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby The Hemogoblin » April 7th, 2014, 4:30 pm

Some passionate people on here! I like that, keeps things interesting :) And thank you all for the warm welcomes!

Goblin-King said: I've probably said it before, but my big problem with this game is that it doesn't really feel or look like HQ. The above being a prime example. I can't use it with my old stuff.


I get what you mean, and I wholeheartedly agree that in a perfect world, MB/GW would rerelease things exactly as they were, with the same miniatures and content and possibly even new ones that fit the classic motif. However, it is a 25 year old game. Given that over two decades have passed, and that the artistic design of boardgames have since changed, it's pretty much a certainty that things aren't going to look the same or feel the same; even if were MB/GW rereleased it themselves, they likely would update the design. (or hand it over to Fantasy Flight where it would be reduced to a thousand cardboard chits and cheap miniatures) And considering some people's initial reactions to a third party recreating the game, if it had been an identical recreatiion to the original, then even more people would be in up arms that it was a blatant rip off. It's kind of a damned-if-you-do or damned-if-you-don't scenario. I want to clearly state (to avoid being the target of potential vitriol haha) that if I had to choose, I would ABSOLUTELY choose a 'vintage/classic' design over an updated one. Wouldn't give it a second thought. But that's not the case and since I enjoy dungeon crawling games more than any other, I chose to embrace this new offering rather than disregard it.

Even though there are those of us that don't agree with the paths that GZ's creativity has taken (myself included, as below), we can't deny that GZ isn't just phoning it in and are actually trying to do something new. I know some of you haven't followed it whatsoever but as someone who has followed it right through since prior to the campaign launch, it is apparent to me that they have put a lot of work and dedication into the project and for that I have to give them credit. I want to note that disliking the changes and giving credit for the effort aren't mutually exclusive, after all ;)

Touching again on the "feel" of the original, I will concede that some new designs are completely contrary and/or are too caught up in fan-service (sex appeal). I do completely agree with the "She" thing. It doesn't fit at all really - in concept or delivery, regardless of any updating of miniature design. Same with the Gargoyle. There will be two versions: inactive (petrified like a statue) and active (alive and killing everyone). Now while this is an example of an update I'm happy about, the Gargoyle doesn't have a bitchin' sword and whip which I feel was unique to HeroQuest. Also, the "Tentacles from the Abyss" which, as much as I love Cthulhu-esque things, has no place in the lore of HeroQuest. And I was confused about the Morcar/Zargon thing; I'm only familiar with Canada's version (Zargon) and since I've not played Wizards of Morcar, I was under the impression that they were in fact two different entities. Having that pointed out definitely makes me think that was poorly thought out, so I'm with you guys there.

So let me ask you guys this:

Hypothetically, a third party announces to release the game as true to the original as possible, but want to create new content. What sort of new content (or ways to expand on the lore) would you suggest? Is there any fan-made content that you'd love to see released officially? As for me, I'd like to see them expand the villain lore. For instance, in the spirit, but not in the delivery of, "She". Also, I'd like an errata on the classic rules (as Sjeng mentioned, they're quite ambiguous), but would enjoy an optional set of more advanced rules.

I'm really enjoying this conversation, by the way - my gaming group recently dispersed so I have no one to discuss this with lol
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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby Daedalus » April 7th, 2014, 4:38 pm

The Hemogoblin wrote:I searched the forums for a discussion on the 25th Anniversary project that Gamezone is working on but all I could find were topics from November of last year. So, since their crowdfunding was successful and it's currently in the works, I thought I'd revive the discussion!

              Image
The Hemogoblin wrote:One thing that bugged me about the negativity from some people is that they didn't want a "third party" to have anything to do with a re-release of any kind. However, it has been clear for a very long time that neither GW or MB have any desire to do right by those of us who carry the flame. Heck, people even signed a petition for it. That is why I was so happy it was an established company with over a decade of experience in the gaming community that took the reins. As the campaign went on, it became clear to me that Gamezone was incredibly sincere in their desire to recreate HeroQuest and that they were a group of fans like the rest of us who are so passionate about the game.

I've pushed for that petition, and I can only hope something concrete comes out of it. If Gamezone crashes and burns, I wouldn't mind so much if it got Hasbro to publish Hero Quest again. But Hasbro has its reasons for not republishing, so instead I'm gambling Gamezone can deliver a product to inconsequential Taiwan. Ever the optimist.

The Hemogoblin wrote:I find it difficult to understand how someone can say "HeroQuest doesn't need to be revisited! It's great the way it is and doesn't need new rules and features!" but then they make all kinds of new content themselves and play with home-brewed rules and frequent sites like this one for all of it's (excellent) fan-generated content. I mean, at the very least we're getting a whole new set of awesome miniatures and environment pieces to play with, and even if someone doesn't like the rules, they can use whatever ones they like with said pieces. It's really no different than it is right now. Heck, the UK and North American versions themselves are nearly two different games considering the difference in rules! And if it were simply a re-release with exactly the same rules that people wanted, why not just use the classic rulebook anyway?

I'm looking forward to all those pieces, as well. Collecting the original set is expensive. Having a new style that more closely matches the current range of minis commonly and cheaply available on the market means loads of effective figures that I can put to use alongside the new game. It also means I can keep my original set in good condition, while I play with other currently-supported material.

I don't aggree that the difference between the EU and NA editions is similar to the Spanish edition. The treatment of Morcar and Zargon rearranges the fluff quite a bit. The necessity of new rules makes it more of a true edition change than the adding of monster Body Points or altered treasure searches. Of course, we need to see those rules to know just how different Gamezone and its Spanish-fan collaborators plan to make HQ 25th. If you are right and there isn't a notable scale of difference for the next edition, it will be interesting to see what language changes will allow an otherwise derivative work to legally succeed in Spain (at least).

The Hemogoblin wrote:So I suppose the question I put to you folks is this: Is there a difference between someone like you and I - amateurs who love the game - creating new features and house rules in our spare time and sharing them with our fellow homebrew players vs. a professional project with similarly altered rules and new features with the intent to create a fresh take available to the general public and a new generation of players?

I believe Spanish HQ fans are collaborating in the houseruling of the Spanish Anniversary edition. So, basically they are doing the same thing we are doing here, in that respect. I see the difference is that by producing the game for the market with the trademark of HeroQuest, Gamezone is claiming itself as an official remake. That infers rules that are canon, which no one here claims in their own houserule set. Gamezone isn't using the sandbox, they are buying and selling it. Presenting another fan group's rules as official irks some of this community because it removes the center of our common ground by introducing a new center. Having two official sets of rules won't end the universe if they meet, but it won't satisfy certain nostalgic enthusiasts, either.

The Hemogoblin wrote:Who knows, the rules they produce might suck. The great thing however, is they're letting the community playtest them far before they're printed so if there's anything that is really, really, bad then chances are it will be rectified before release. I'll give Gamezone this: they seem to have the very utmost respect for the community and were constantly asking for their input and perspective throughout the campaign.

I, for one, would like to have some input in the new game, before it reaches Beta. Another member submitted a number of Gamezone communications, but was basically dismissed. That doesn't promote support. Gamezone can't be expected to cater to every criticism or request, but I'd say so far they've only let this site languish.

It's worth noting that HeroQuestFrance, a long-time Inn member and Spanish HQ translator and supporter, has basically been alone in sharing plans with the Inn. If Gamezone were to adopt his attitude, they might be able to turn things around some. I'm waiting for that event. Unfortunately, damage has been done and opinions have been set that won't likely change. Checking for feedback from kickstarter pledgers in August--after the Beta is out--won't include a broad range of currently-alienated Inn members. They have already said no to the kickstarter and are excluded from planned feedback.

The Hemogoblin wrote:Anyways, I'm very happy I found Ye Olde Inn and hopefully I can participate in keeping our beloved game alive! :)

Happy Questing!
-T

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Re: Regarding GameZone's 25th Anniversary Edition

Postby JasonMCM » April 7th, 2014, 4:45 pm

If I was going to re-release a classic game from 25 (or so) years ago. I would do a few things
    I would not mess up the board by making the center room some funky non rectangular thing
    I would keep the PG feel of the original. No sex, no gore, no accidental dismemberment rules, and I would keep the artwork similar
    I would make it so that people who bought my product could play vanilla classic game right out of the box (if they so wanted to)
    I would not try to one up the original game with pointless miniatures, this includes multiple poses for each monster type
    I would get permission from the original creators or I wouldn't use the name on the box. AND I would never lie about it if I didn't have it.


Also what the heck is up with the primordial before the word chaos on everything? That is just weird, my suggestion is to drop that word and you will get 10-15% more support from me. :geek:
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