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Overview of the Old World

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 21st, 2021, 1:50 pm

let me advance an interesting theory:

Both Prince Magnus and the Emperor mentioned in HeroQuest are one and the same. :o
AND are the same Emperor Magnus elected in 2304 in the Warhammer world.

In Warhammer, the last current emperor Karl Franz was the Elector Count of Reikland, Prince of Altdorf, and the Emperor of the realm maintaining all titles concurrently.

Prince Magnus from HeroQuest and Warhammer would be the Prince of Nuln, the same individual known as Magnus the Pious, a noble of Nuln, who repelled the largest Chaos invasion known as the Great War against Chaos in 2302-2303 and became Emperor in 2304 as the people demanded it. During his reign he spent much effort to eradicate remaining Chaos warbands throughout his lands, "the servants of Chaos were hunted down in the forests, and many wild and long-abandoned lands were re-settled." This after a lawless period known as the time of three emperors in 1979 where many claimants to the throne disrupted the succession of emperors for the next 400 years allowing Chaos to corrupt mens' hearts and infest the land.

Mentor is simply a good wizard living in the empire (long before the colleges of magic were established and magic was officially authorized) whose pupil Zargon/Morcar rebelled and became a Chaos Warlock possibly during the chaos incursion, and his pupil turned nemesis was still commanding a Chaos warband in the aftermath of the Great War. A minor albeit powerful warlord, not the leader of the entire Chaos army (who was defeated by Magnus at Praag, in Kislev) or particularly noteworthy to history in the vaccum right after the Great War. Much of the "HeroQuest can't be Warhammer" position stems from the lack of mention or scant mention of the HeroQuest baddie Morcar/Zargon in Warhammer history which seems incongruous but fits right in line with all the other mighty warlords and generals, victors of countless battles who scarcely recieved a line of note in Warhammer history.
HeroQuest fits the Warhammer timelime right after the Great Chaos war in the early 2300s which coincides with the then current in-game time of the GW publications of 3rd edition.

Orcs and Goblins were part of Chaos armies in the 3rd edition of Warhammer when HeroQuest and Battlemasters were released by Milton Bradley in conjunction with Games Workshop were in 1989-1990 (Chaos Goblins getting their own specific entry and stats much like the discontinued Chaos Dwarfs) and fimirs were also included in that edition. Any Warhammer army could take contingents of allies as well in 3rd edition, so it wouldn't have been at all unusual to see Chaos Warriors fighting alongside Goblins, orcs, fimir, or undead. Gargoyles are living statues and what would be more terrifying than a living statue of a Chaos Bloodthirster?

HeroQuest is set in the period right after Magnus of Nuln was elected emperor and then spent his remaining reign trying to eradicate remaining Chaos pockets in his realm.

The product lifespan of HeroQuest spanned the transition to 4th edition Warhammer and the beginning of army books which consolidated orcs and goblins, Undead, and Chaos into their own separate army books rather than the sole Warhammer armies book of 3rd edition making orcs and goblins fighting under the banner of Chaos unusal or considered uneasy allies at best. Fimir were excluded from 4th edition Warhammer on with only a few obscure mentions in later editions. At the same time Advanced HeroQuest with it's inclusion of Skaven and the WhiteDwarf HeroQuest quests were produced further tying HeroQuest to Warhammer.

HeroQuest is and was always intended to be part of the Warhammer world setting with three published maps of the old world published in HeroQuest products themselves and numerous references to places and people mentioned throughout.

I own all the HeroQuest products (except for the sticker book and a few puzzles), all Warhammer fantasy products from 3rd edition to the final 8th edition, several supplimental products such as Uniforms & Heraldry of the empire and the World of Warhammer, as well as a complete Warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition set.
I also own all of the Battlemasters game, the only other game made by both Milton Bradley and GamesWorkshop which also has numerous references to the Warhammer world.

Everything I have read in all of the Warhammer products confirms without any doubt that HeroQuest is fully compatible and in fact set in that world, with only a few minor place name discrepancies or a handful of new monsters to differentiate the two. Medieval maps were notoriously inaccurate in the real world.

All of the arguments against seem to come from folks who do not have access to many Warhammer materials and thus assume there are major differences or incompatible timelines, even going so far as to say it is an alternate reality based on but different than Warhammer, which is far from what the evidence actually shows.
Warhammer, Battlemasters, Advanced HeroQuest and HeroQuest are set in the same world in the official materials published and that is that.

Now just like Dungeons & Dragons is each own dungeon master's universe to change as they see fit even if they are using a published campaign setting, the same is also true of HeroQuest.
I'm a conformist, my HeroQuest is set in the Warhammer world setting as is presented in the official products, perhaps yours isn't; it can be an alternate timeline for you or even an entirely different world as you wish.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 21st, 2021, 2:40 pm

Uncle_Elvis wrote:Only recently did I jump into the Warhammer mythos.

My biggest surprises were that Fimir are not actual greenskins, greenskins are sentient fungi, and Chaos Warriors would probably never work with greenskins.


Actually the "Greenskins are fungus" thing was a very late (7th?) 8th edition retconn only mentioned briefly in a fluff background paragraph which borrowed from GWs Warhammer 40k setting, for most of Warhammer fantasy history (and WFRoleplay or Bloodbowl or Mordheim for that matter) orcs and goblins had females. in 3rd edition half orcs received game stats implying sexual reproduction with other races. Early on in Warhammer development 1st-3rd editions, all evil armies were seen as allied with Chaos against the forces of good. HeroQuest wad published during 3rd and later 4th edition Warhammer products.
Also any army could be allied with certain other armies throughout Warhammer history so Chaos/greenskins fighting together wouldn't have necessarily been unusual for many editions. Chaos Goblins were even a thing in 3rd edition Warhammer.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on January 21st, 2021, 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 21st, 2021, 4:41 pm

the years of HeroQuest development and products coincide or overlap and are compatible with these other GW products with similar art and figure style 1983-1996

1983 Warhammer: the Mass Combat Roleplaying Game (1st edition)
1983 Warhammer: Forces of Fantasy (1st edition)
1984 Warhammer Fantasy Battle Rules (2nd edition)
1985 Warhammer Blood at Orcs Drift expansion (2nd edition)
1986 Warhammer Terror of the Lichemaster expansion (2nd edition)
1986 Warhammer the Tragedy of McDeath expansion (2nd edition)
1986 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (1st edition 1986-1992)
1987 Warhammer Ravening Hordes: the official Warhammer Battle Army lists (3rd edition)
1987 Warhammer Fantasy Battle (3rd edition WH fantasy)
1988 Warhammer Armies (3rd edition)
1988 Warhammer Siege (3rd edition)
1988 Warhammer Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness (3rd edition)
1989 HeroQuest Game System UK
1989 HeroQuest Kellar's Keep the adventure continues UK
1989 HeroQuest Return of the WitchLord the adventure continues UK
1989 Advanced HeroQuest
1990 Warhammer Realm of Chaos: the Lost and the Damned (3rd edition)
1990 HeroQuest Game System (revised UK) and U.S. version
1990 HeroQuest Against the Ogre Horde the adventure continues
1990 HeroQuest Adventure Design Kit
1991 HeroQuest Wizards of Morcar the adventure continues
1991 HeroQuest Kellar's Keep quest pack NA
1991 HeroQuest Return of the WitchLord quest pack NA
1990 HeroQuest Advanced Quest Edition (dark company)
1991 Advanced HeroQuest Terror in the Dark Expansion (fimir on page 74, 78)
1991 Advanced HeroQuest Paint Set
1991 Mighty Heroes board game
1991 White Dwarf 134 HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest quests
1992 WhiteDwarf 145 HeroQuest and Advanced HeroQuest quests
1992 HeroQuest Elf Quest Pack the mage of the Mirror NA
1992 HeroQuest Barbarian Quest Pack the Frozen Horror NA
1992 Warhammer the Game of Fantasy Battles (4th edition 1992-1996)
1992 Warhammer Battle Magic (4th edition)
1992 BattleMasters board game
1992 Battlemasters Imperial Lords expansion
1992 Battlemasters Chaos Warband expansion
1993 Warhammer Armies the Empire Army Book (4th edition)
1993 Warhammer Armies High Elves army book (4th edition)
1993 Warhammer Armies Orcs & Goblins army book (4th edition)
1993 Warhammer Armies Dwarfs army book (4th edition)
1993 Warhammer Armies Skaven army book (4th edition)
1994 Warhammer Armies Chaos Dwarf army booklet (4th edition)
1994 Warhammer Armies Undead Army Book (4th edition)
1994 Warhammer Armies Chaos army book (4th edition)
1994 Talisman board game (3rd edition)
1994 Talisman City of Adventure expansion (3rd edition )
1994 Talisman Dungeon of Doom expansion (3rd edition)
1995 Talisman Dragon's Tower expansion (3rd edition)
1995 Warhammer Quest (1995-1998)
1995 Warhammer Quest Lair of the Orc Warlord expansion
1995 Warhammer Quest Catacombs of Terror expansion
1995 Warhammer Armies Dark Elves army book (4th edition)
1995 Warhammer Arcane Magic (4th edition)
1996 Warhammer Armies Wood Elves army book (4th book)
1996-2000 5th edition Warhammer Fantasy began transitioning away from the comical colorful style of art and design previous used

basically 3rd and 4th edition Warhammer Fantasy battle, Advanced HeroQuest, Battlemasters, 1st edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and 3rd edition Talisman were at the same time as HeroQuest, but any other Warhammer materials could be used for HeroQuest until 2015 when the Old World setting was officially ended
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on January 22nd, 2021, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 21st, 2021, 5:34 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Uncle_Elvis wrote:Only recently did I jump into the Warhammer mythos.

My biggest surprises were that Fimir are not actual greenskins, greenskins are sentient fungi, and Chaos Warriors would probably never work with greenskins.


Actually the "Greenskins are fungus" thing was a very late (7th?) 8th edition retconn only mentioned briefly in a fluff background paragraph which borrowed from GWs Warhammer 40k setting, for most of Warhammer fantasy history (and WFRoleplay or Bloodbowl or Mordheim for that matter) orcs and goblins had females. in 3rd edition half orcs received game stats implying sexual reproduction with other races. Early on in Warhammer development 1st-3rd editions, all evil armies were seen as allied with Chaos against the forces of good. HeroQuest wad published during 3rd and later 4th edition Warhammer products.
Also any army could be allied with certain other armies throughout Warhammer history so Chaos/greenskins fighting together wouldn't have necessarily been unusual for many editions. Chaos Goblins were even a thing in 3rd edition Warhammer.


The greenskins as fungus was much earlier than 7th edition WFRP. I recall seeing a picture of a greenskin spawning under a rock in 1st edition WFRP... greenskins have females, but not for sexual reproduction., if I recall correctly...
"The HeroQuest World is loosely based on the Warhammer World which is the copyright of Games Workshop and is used by their permission."

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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 21st, 2021, 5:48 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:let me advance an interesting theory:

Both Prince Magnus and the Emperor mentioned in HeroQuest are one and the same. :o
AND are the same Emperor Magnus elected in 2304 in the Warhammer world.

In Warhammer, the last current emperor Karl Franz was the Elector Count of Reikland, Prince of Altdorf, and the Emperor of the realm maintaining all titles concurrently.

Prince Magnus from HeroQuest and Warhammer would be the Prince of Nuln, the same individual known as Magnus the Pious, a noble of Nuln, who repelled the largest Chaos invasion known as the Great War against Chaos in 2302-2303 and became Emperor in 2304 as the people demanded it. During his reign he spent much effort to eradicate remaining Chaos warbands throughout his lands, "the servants of Chaos were hunted down in the forests, and many wild and long-abandoned lands were re-settled." This after a lawless period known as the time of three emperors in 1979 where many claimants to the throne disrupted the succession of emperors for the next 400 years allowing Chaos to corrupt mens' hearts and infest the land.

Mentor is simply a good wizard living in the empire (long before the colleges of magic were established and magic was officially authorized) whose pupil Zargon/Morcar rebelled and became a Chaos Warlock possibly during the chaos incursion, and his pupil turned nemesis was still commanding a Chaos warband in the aftermath of the Great War. A minor albeit powerful warlord, not the leader of the entire Chaos army (who was defeated by Magnus at Praag, in Kislev) or particularly noteworthy to history in the vaccum right after the Great War. Much of the "HeroQuest can't be Warhammer" position stems from the lack of mention or scant mention of the HeroQuest baddie Morcar/Zargon in Warhammer history which seems incongruous but fits right in line with all the other mighty warlords and generals, victors of countless battles who scarcely recieved a line of note in Warhammer history.
HeroQuest fits the Warhammer timelime right after the Great Chaos war in the early 2300s which coincides with the then current in-game time of the GW publications of 3rd edition.

Orcs and Goblins were part of Chaos armies in the 3rd edition of Warhammer when HeroQuest and Battlemasters were released by Milton Bradley in conjunction with Games Workshop were in 1989-1990 (Chaos Goblins getting their own specific entry and stats much like the discontinued Chaos Dwarfs) and fimirs were also included in that edition. Any Warhammer army could take contingents of allies as well in 3rd edition, so it wouldn't have been at all unusual to see Chaos Warriors fighting alongside Goblins, orcs, fimir, or undead. Gargoyles are living statues and what would be more terrifying than a living statue of a Chaos Bloodthirster?

HeroQuest is set in the period right after Magnus of Nuln was elected emperor and then spent his remaining reign trying to eradicate remaining Chaos pockets in his realm.

The product lifespan of HeroQuest spanned the transition to 4th edition Warhammer and the beginning of army books which consolidated orcs and goblins, Undead, and Chaos into their own separate army books rather than the sole Warhammer armies book of 3rd edition making orcs and goblins fighting under the banner of Chaos unusal or considered uneasy allies at best. Fimir were excluded from 4th edition Warhammer on with only a few obscure mentions in later editions. At the same time Advanced HeroQuest with it's inclusion of Skaven and the WhiteDwarf HeroQuest quests were produced further tying HeroQuest to Warhammer.

HeroQuest is and was always intended to be part of the Warhammer world setting with three published maps of the old world published in HeroQuest products themselves and numerous references to places and people mentioned throughout.

I own all the HeroQuest products (except for the sticker book and a few puzzles), all Warhammer fantasy products from 3rd edition to the final 8th edition, several supplimental products such as Uniforms & Heraldry of the empire and the World of Warhammer, as well as a complete Warhammer fantasy roleplay 2nd edition set.
I also own all of the Battlemasters game, the only other game made by both Milton Bradley and GamesWorkshop which also has numerous references to the Warhammer world.

Everything I have read in all of the Warhammer products confirms without any doubt that HeroQuest is fully compatible and in fact set in that world, with only a few minor place name discrepancies or a handful of new monsters to differentiate the two. Medieval maps were notoriously inaccurate in the real world.

All of the arguments against seem to come from folks who do not have access to many Warhammer materials and thus assume there are major differences or incompatible timelines, even going so far as to say it is an alternate reality based on but different than Warhammer, which is far from what the evidence actually shows.
Warhammer, Battlemasters, Advanced HeroQuest and HeroQuest are set in the same world in the official materials published and that is that.

Now just like Dungeons & Dragons is each own dungeon master's universe to change as they see fit even if they are using a published campaign setting, the same is also true of HeroQuest.
I'm a conformist, my HeroQuest is set in the Warhammer world setting as is presented in the official products, perhaps yours isn't; it can be an alternate timeline for you or even an entirely different world as you wish.


Interesting theory. Certainly pays more attention to the timeline than I have - I forgot about the Emperor retaining all his titles, as do other Elector Counts. I haven't done a deep dive of the Empire Armybooks, but 2300 seems reasonable, since the current year for when WFRP 1st edition was published was 2500.

I think the flaw is trying to find Morcar/Morkar in the timeline, when we should be trying to find Magnus. That said, Magnus is fairly common name in the Empire, so whilst the Prince of Nuln might be the best fit, it doesn't have to be the only one...
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » January 21st, 2021, 6:21 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:Now just like Dungeons & Dragons is each own dungeon master's universe to change as they see fit even if they are using a published campaign setting, the same is also true of HeroQuest.
I'm a conformist, my HeroQuest is set in the Warhammer world setting as is presented in the official products, perhaps yours isn't; it can be an alternate timeline for you or even an entirely different world as you wish.


I never said myself that it doesn’t fit nor that I don’t want it to. I plan to read through everything myself. I ordered the 3rd edition materials, just waiting to receive them.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 21st, 2021, 9:33 pm

Davane wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Uncle_Elvis wrote:Only recently did I jump into the Warhammer mythos.

My biggest surprises were that Fimir are not actual greenskins, greenskins are sentient fungi, and Chaos Warriors would probably never work with greenskins.


Actually the "Greenskins are fungus" thing was a very late (7th?) 8th edition retconn only mentioned briefly in a fluff background paragraph which borrowed from GWs Warhammer 40k setting, for most of Warhammer fantasy history (and WFRoleplay or Bloodbowl or Mordheim for that matter) orcs and goblins had females. in 3rd edition half orcs received game stats implying sexual reproduction with other races. Early on in Warhammer development 1st-3rd editions, all evil armies were seen as allied with Chaos against the forces of good. HeroQuest wad published during 3rd and later 4th edition Warhammer products.
Also any army could be allied with certain other armies throughout Warhammer history so Chaos/greenskins fighting together wouldn't have necessarily been unusual for many editions. Chaos Goblins were even a thing in 3rd edition Warhammer.


The greenskins as fungus was much earlier than 7th edition WFRP. I recall seeing a picture of a greenskin spawning under a rock in 1st edition WFRP... greenskins have females, but not for sexual reproduction., if I recall correctly...

I don't have any of the Warhammer Fantasy Role Play first edition, but have the entire second edition. I do have and have frequently read Warhammer Fantasy Battle editions 3-8 and know for certain there is a reference to greenskins spore spawning in the 8th edition rulebook, but couldn't remember for sure if the same passage exists in the 7th edition. Regardless, both editions were written long after HeroQuest which was written during 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy battle which certainly had females and half orcs.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 21st, 2021, 10:08 pm

Prince Magnus from Nuln was elected emperor in 2304 after defeating the Chaos incursion in 2302-2303. Little was written about his reign except he continued to battle the remaining pockets of Chaos in the realm and firmly established the Worship of Sigmar as the official Empire religion.
It certainly is possible he was later trapped in Karak Varn and rescued, or thwarted the WitchLord with help from a hired band of mercenaries. The payments for service from the Emperor in HeroQuest makes the players swords for hire mercenaries.

1979-2304 no emperors but many claimants
2300 Mousillon devastated by the Red Pox
2301 Dark Elves and Chaos invade Ulthan, the witch king is defeated by Tyrion and Teclis, last of the Dark Elf guerillas driven out of Ulthan
2301 Great War against Chaos begins
2302 during great war some orcs join Chaos bur just as many fight against forces of Chaos
Praag falls winter 2302/2303
2302 dwarfs send troops to assist their human allies in Praag during the Great War against Chaos
2303 Magnus defeats chaos forces at Praag
2304 Magnus crowned emperor
2304+ Emperor Magnus immediately sets about restoring order to the provences of the empire. The servants of Chaos were hunted down in the forests, and many wild and long-abandoned lands were resettled. The horde was scattered. For many years after, lone warbands continued to plague Kislev and the Empire.
He asked Teclis to help train wizards and the colleges of magic were established.

HeroQuest would be set sometime after 2304, the year that the first emperor waselected in 400 years since the succession of Sigmar petered out. During this time the Emperor had need of heroes and mercenaries to restore order to the empire and hunt Chaos out, all while battling the ever present threat of greenskins. Chaos covens and Chaos sorcerers abounded among men. Chaos Warriors and other evils stalked the land.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
Some quick axe work an' we can count the coins and gems DWARF Wulfram Magnussen
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 22nd, 2021, 3:04 am

Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Davane wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Uncle_Elvis wrote:Only recently did I jump into the Warhammer mythos.

My biggest surprises were that Fimir are not actual greenskins, greenskins are sentient fungi, and Chaos Warriors would probably never work with greenskins.


Actually the "Greenskins are fungus" thing was a very late (7th?) 8th edition retconn only mentioned briefly in a fluff background paragraph which borrowed from GWs Warhammer 40k setting, for most of Warhammer fantasy history (and WFRoleplay or Bloodbowl or Mordheim for that matter) orcs and goblins had females. in 3rd edition half orcs received game stats implying sexual reproduction with other races. Early on in Warhammer development 1st-3rd editions, all evil armies were seen as allied with Chaos against the forces of good. HeroQuest wad published during 3rd and later 4th edition Warhammer products.
Also any army could be allied with certain other armies throughout Warhammer history so Chaos/greenskins fighting together wouldn't have necessarily been unusual for many editions. Chaos Goblins were even a thing in 3rd edition Warhammer.


The greenskins as fungus was much earlier than 7th edition WFRP. I recall seeing a picture of a greenskin spawning under a rock in 1st edition WFRP... greenskins have females, but not for sexual reproduction., if I recall correctly...

I don't have any of the Warhammer Fantasy Role Play first edition, but have the entire second edition. I do have and have frequently read Warhammer Fantasy Battle editions 3-8 and know for certain there is a reference to greenskins spore spawning in the 8th edition rulebook, but couldn't remember for sure if the same passage exists in the 7th edition. Regardless, both editions were written long after HeroQuest which was written during 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy battle which certainly had females and half orcs.


The artwork was done in the much earlier art style of WFRP 1st edition, and with the 2nd and 3rd ed. WFB books, but I am totally blanking on the source. Could even have been in one of the early WDs or CJs. AHQ shared a similar artwork style.

if I recall correctly, thinking back on it, it's not so much that the greenskins are fungus, but rather that they can reproduce asexually from fungus, because they can literally spawn out of the ground. This makes even a lone Orc or Goblin a threat, because even just one can spawn a whole clan in a matter of years, if left alone. Grown greenskins are still HUMANOID in all other respects, which implies that they can also reproduce sexually, although few greenskins live long enough to do so.

There's certainly a lot of fungal motifs within the greenskins, especially with the goblins. Likewise, squigs are also related to fungus. Night goblins were notorious for it, and it was definitely the case that the greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy had the fungal cannibalism vibe by the mid to late '90's.

if I recall correctly, Half Orcs don't technically exist, because they are considered "beastmen", just as lizardfolk originally were. How true this is depends, but I could certainly see the Empire enforcing this idea that Half-Orcs are actually Chaos Mutants, and should be treated as such.

As an aside, there's always been an intrinsic link between WFB and WH40K, but the timelines aren't meshed very well, if at all. There's definitely links between races, and deities, in both settings. The only problem is that there's no Warhammer World in WH40K, as the Imperium of Man comes from Terra (Earth) in the Sol system. It has lead to speculation that the Warhammer World might, in fact, be like Hyboria - a mythical, pre-history version of Earth. A lot of this comes from the early roots of both the Warhammer World and of WH40K, and I am pretty sure that the Space Orks already had their fungal ties passed on to them from the early versions of the Warhammer World in the late 80's, rather than the fungal ties coming from WH40K...

Not sure I care enough to go back through the archives in any timely fashion for that though, because some of this was before even my time as a gamer...
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 22nd, 2021, 2:25 pm

Davane wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Davane wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:
Uncle_Elvis wrote:Only recently did I jump into the Warhammer mythos.

My biggest surprises were that Fimir are not actual greenskins, greenskins are sentient fungi, and Chaos Warriors would probably never work with greenskins.


Actually the "Greenskins are fungus" thing was a very late (7th?) 8th edition retconn only mentioned briefly in a fluff background paragraph which borrowed from GWs Warhammer 40k setting, for most of Warhammer fantasy history (and WFRoleplay or Bloodbowl or Mordheim for that matter) orcs and goblins had females. in 3rd edition half orcs received game stats implying sexual reproduction with other races. Early on in Warhammer development 1st-3rd editions, all evil armies were seen as allied with Chaos against the forces of good. HeroQuest wad published during 3rd and later 4th edition Warhammer products.
Also any army could be allied with certain other armies throughout Warhammer history so Chaos/greenskins fighting together wouldn't have necessarily been unusual for many editions. Chaos Goblins were even a thing in 3rd edition Warhammer.


The greenskins as fungus was much earlier than 7th edition WFRP. I recall seeing a picture of a greenskin spawning under a rock in 1st edition WFRP... greenskins have females, but not for sexual reproduction., if I recall correctly...

I don't have any of the Warhammer Fantasy Role Play first edition, but have the entire second edition. I do have and have frequently read Warhammer Fantasy Battle editions 3-8 and know for certain there is a reference to greenskins spore spawning in the 8th edition rulebook, but couldn't remember for sure if the same passage exists in the 7th edition. Regardless, both editions were written long after HeroQuest which was written during 3rd edition Warhammer Fantasy battle which certainly had females and half orcs.


The artwork was done in the much earlier art style of WFRP 1st edition, and with the 2nd and 3rd ed. WFB books, but I am totally blanking on the source. Could even have been in one of the early WDs or CJs. AHQ shared a similar artwork style.

if I recall correctly, thinking back on it, it's not so much that the greenskins are fungus, but rather that they can reproduce asexually from fungus, because they can literally spawn out of the ground. This makes even a lone Orc or Goblin a threat, because even just one can spawn a whole clan in a matter of years, if left alone. Grown greenskins are still HUMANOID in all other respects, which implies that they can also reproduce sexually, although few greenskins live long enough to do so.

There's certainly a lot of fungal motifs within the greenskins, especially with the goblins. Likewise, squigs are also related to fungus. Night goblins were notorious for it, and it was definitely the case that the greenskins in Warhammer Fantasy had the fungal cannibalism vibe by the mid to late '90's.

if I recall correctly, Half Orcs don't technically exist, because they are considered "beastmen", just as lizardfolk originally were. How true this is depends, but I could certainly see the Empire enforcing this idea that Half-Orcs are actually Chaos Mutants, and should be treated as such.

As an aside, there's always been an intrinsic link between WFB and WH40K, but the timelines aren't meshed very well, if at all. There's definitely links between races, and deities, in both settings. The only problem is that there's no Warhammer World in WH40K, as the Imperium of Man comes from Terra (Earth) in the Sol system. It has lead to speculation that the Warhammer World might, in fact, be like Hyboria - a mythical, pre-history version of Earth. A lot of this comes from the early roots of both the Warhammer World and of WH40K, and I am pretty sure that the Space Orks already had their fungal ties passed on to them from the early versions of the Warhammer World in the late 80's, rather than the fungal ties coming from WH40K...

Not sure I care enough to go back through the archives in any timely fashion for that though, because some of this was before even my time as a gamer...


I suppose WH fantasy orc origins can't derail the discussion since it is a part of the Old World...but 40k discussion might.

Games Workshop's concept that orcs/orks are actually sentient fungi reproducing by spores originated in the GorkaMorka Warhammer 40k spinoff game (released in 1997.) Basically an ork version of the earlier Necromunda skirmish game (1995) As the orks were crash landed on a planet struggling to get offworld by building "tech" but locked in a constant battle of attrition for supplies with other orks. it was a convenient fluff to make them inexhaustible ever-replentishing for eternal combat. Fungus orks then became the canon backstory in 3rd edition Warhammer 40k (1998)

an earlier 40k Rogue Trader book entitled Waaargh The Orks! was released in 1990 that had orks as the engineered creations of snotlings along with gretchin or grots (40k versions of goblins) as a labor force. the snotlings were called Big Brains who were the smartest greenskins because of eating a certain fungus. The orks managed to get their hands on the smart fungus supply and ate it all with not enough to go around leaving them just smart enough to overthrow the snotlings (but still rather dim) who were now befuddled due to depleted supply of fungus. This early "codex" for Orks didn't contain any game mechanics crunch just backstory fluff and was very tongue in cheek humor. As the least Grim Dark book for early 40k it was seen as a spoof, and much of the content was promptly ignored by later authors.

40k originally was a Warhammer...but in Spaaaaaaaace!!!!!!! (1987 1st edition) comedy spin-off of Warhammer fantasy (1983 1st edition) with all fantasy races ported over: Dwarfs became squats, elves became Eldar, orcs became Orks, goblins became grots then later gretchin, ogres became ogryns etc.
even Games Workshop's attempts to create new fantasy races whole cloth, not from the Tolken/D&D mold but GWs sole intellectual property were put in 40k, the Zoats (which were included in early tyrannid armies) and Fimir (which lasted a little longer in 40k before they were forgotten again.)

Fimir and half orcs were removed from fantasy because of the human rape implications of their reproduction backstories beginning with Warhammer 4th edition in 1992, following the supposed parent backlash against D&D where depicted boobs in artwork and references to demons and devils were removed around the same time for AD&D 2nd edition. Both companies lowered their target customer age.

It wasn't until much later that 40k took itself seriously and became the "Grim Dark" and GWs best seller. Orcs and goblins have always had a comic not too serious element in both Warhammer Fantasy and 40k with orc stupidity and speech patterns, the Goblin doom diver and fanatics as examples.

The earliest reference I can find in an actual rulebook is a single line in 7th edition Warhammer (2006, core rules) page 124, repeated verbatim in 8th edition on page 159 in 2009, "From the wilderness came the greenskined orcs and goblins, their insidious spores perhaps unwittingly introduced to the world upon the star vessels of the Old Ones." That is the earliest retcon of Fantasy orcs as spore spawning with no known mention in GW fantasy products before that. (if you can find an earlier fantasy fungus spawned orc/goblin in fantasy battle I owe you lunch.) A second more detailed origin for goblioids as spore spawning was in the Skarsnik novel released in 2013.

I will scour previous Warhammer Fantasy editions for any earlier reference but I didn't remember any, having read and re-read them for years, and only begrudgingly accepted the orc spore retcon for 7th-8th edition Warhammer fantasy battle when another forum member pointed it out and I had to eat crow on another similar orc origin/HeroQuest=Warhammer thread. I do not have the 1st edition of Warhammer fantasy Role Play but I seriously doubt any spore references were made, as this very discussion would have been happening many years earlier in the community. Therefore, I reiterate Fantasy orcs weren't fungus for most of Warhammer fantasy history from 1983-2006. And even then it was only a single line mention in the 7th and 8th edition rulebook after that, there was no mention at all in the 7th or 8th edition Orcs & Goblins army books.

Now as far as HeroQuest orc reproduction goes:
Daedalus wrote:Heroquest: The Marvel Winter Special gave us some additional, second-teir canon of what an Orc is. They had male and female mated pairs, so female Orc figures should actually be a pretty good fit. They also were happy working for Morcar since he let them eat their defeated enemies (and they just plain liked fighting.)

Zenithfleet wrote:Don't even need to go to the Marvel special. In the original Questbook, 'Legacy of the Orc Warlord' has Grak capture you because you killed his father.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on January 22nd, 2021, 4:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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