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NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby cynthialee » November 10th, 2020, 11:01 pm

Oftkilted wrote:
cynthialee wrote:Seems to me that one should be able to heal and equip Sir Ragnar when he is discovered.

Only 2 Body Points left...tells me he has more and I would wager 1 less than Arctic Wastelands Barbie gets ... Certainly the chance to make him a capable fighter should exist

After having likely been tortured and starved by his captors maybe for months, and there being no official way to change equipment in a dungeon ... I’m pretty sure that a stiff wind would blow him over.

If I find new gear in the dungeon I can swap out gear as my action. If I have a weapon destroyed I can equip a new weapon if I have extras in my gear.
Or am I wrong on that? Because it seriously hampers the heroes otherwise.

One should at least be able to armor the knight up. Fine he sucks wind and can't fight (not when I am EWP, I say he can be healed up to 6 Body Points and 3 Mind and if he is topped off he is good to go) he should be able to have protection, especially seeing how the mission is to rescue the dude.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Oftkilted » November 11th, 2020, 12:45 am

cynthialee wrote:
Oftkilted wrote:
cynthialee wrote:Seems to me that one should be able to heal and equip Sir Ragnar when he is discovered.

Only 2 Body Points left...tells me he has more and I would wager 1 less than Arctic Wastelands Barbie gets ... Certainly the chance to make him a capable fighter should exist

After having likely been tortured and starved by his captors maybe for months, and there being no official way to change equipment in a dungeon ... I’m pretty sure that a stiff wind would blow him over.

If I find new gear in the dungeon I can swap out gear as my action. If I have a weapon destroyed I can equip a new weapon if I have extras in my gear.
Or am I wrong on that? Because it seriously hampers the heroes otherwise.

One should at least be able to armor the knight up. Fine he sucks wind and can't fight (not when I am EWP, I say he can be healed up to 6 Body Points and 3 Mind and if he is topped off he is good to go) he should be able to have protection, especially seeing how the mission is to rescue the dude.

While the evil Wizard could allow anything they’d like, I’ve never found rules that allow heroes to do anything other than pass potions, weapons, equipment and artifacts. Actually swapping a weapon is neither an action. Nor is it mentioned as an option in the game. An EWP could choose to make something an action. But it isn’t on the list of available player actions in the rules. Players can go to the armory between adventures to improve their gear. But it isn’t defined as an in adventure option. (I’d be really appreciative if someone could point me to a source that says otherwise.)
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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby cynthialee » November 11th, 2020, 1:44 pm

That is completely unreasonable

If I have a spare short sword on my belt and some spell caster hits my long sword with Rust....to say the hero can not re-arm is folly. If I can swap gear with another player as an action I damn sure should be able to equip said gear. Fine make it a separate action.... but outright moratorium on gear swapping is silly when it says we can trade between each other. "Here ROmthar have my helmet and Battle Ax, you are the Tank anyways"...."Why thanks Bjorn, I will just set it aside for next adventure"?! Why would the action to pass gear be available if there was no option to use it? It is implied as far as I am concerned. Why else would I swap gear mid dungeon?
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Oftkilted » November 11th, 2020, 4:10 pm

cynthialee wrote:That is completely unreasonable

If I have a spare short sword on my belt and some spell caster hits my long sword with Rust....to say the hero can not re-arm is folly. If I can swap gear with another player as an action I damn sure should be able to equip said gear. Fine make it a separate action.... but outright moratorium on gear swapping is silly when it says we can trade between each other. "Here ROmthar have my helmet and Battle Ax, you are the Tank anyways"...."Why thanks Bjorn, I will just set it aside for next adventure"?! Why would the action to pass gear be available if there was no option to use it? It is implied as far as I am concerned. Why else would I swap gear mid dungeon?

There aren’t rules for encumbrance either. How much equipment can a warrior carry? Does it slow them down? How many potions?

The clarified rules for “passing equipment” don’t show up until the EQP and BQP. (Which clarified the heroes must be in two adjacent squares, and there can be no monsters adjacent to either hero.)

Until then the only “passing option” was to pass potions and the rules for artifacts said that they should be given to heroes that could use them. (Using the Wizard artifacts as the example.)
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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Orc26 » November 11th, 2020, 5:15 pm

Suddenly the crossbow looks like much less of a good investment if you can never switch to a melee weapon...
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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Kurgan » November 11th, 2020, 5:46 pm

The game designers seem to have intended that Ragnar can't fight. They don't tell us his mind points and we have no way in the game (yet) to restore those, but I bet that is the reason he can't fight somehow Just a theory. But if he's wounded, we should be able to heal him, how much is Zargon's call. We might not be able to give him a weapon but giving him a spare piece of armor seems reasonable (he's a "knight" not a wizard who can't wear it). Can we give him a potion to save himself in case he gets killed? Zargon gets to decide.

It would seem reasonable that we could heal him if he got hurt during the mission, but can we heal him before that? Again, you're the GM, you decide. I think generally speaking that's the rule, if the rules are ambiguous, you decide in those gray areas. And unless the Heroes are abusing it, why worry?

As for passing equipment, it does exist in the Game System, NA edition at least. Lair of the Orc Warlord specifically states when you find a Staff that you can give it to another Hero. Doesn't say the conditions under which you need to do that, but it says you can. When you find the Wizard's Cloak it says its of "special interest to the Wizard. Give him..." but it isn't explicit that the "him" is the Hero who killed the bad guy, or that the Wizard automatically gets it (unless he's dead, of course). Of course the NA doesn't have an equipment deck, it just refers to weapons, armor and tool kit found on the Armory board. The 2021 remake has no armory but an equipment deck (apparently which now includes potions and holy water too, so they'll probably clarify those rules).

I agree that it seems ridiculous if you have two weapons that you can't switch between them. The only question is whether a player will try to abuse it by saying he's always attacking with his battle axe and always defending with his shield ("switching" in the background, effectively subverting the rule that he can't use both at the same time).

Oftkilted is right. The Instructions do indeed say that character specific Artifacts "should" be given to the Hero who can use them. And the same page does indeed say you can give a potion to another Hero on your own turn. Does that mean giving someone a weapon (and let him use it) is off limits in the game system? I think it's unclear. But I don't see why you'd have a problem with it, again, unless its being abused.

Kellar's keep says you can give Artifacts to other Heroes on your turn (doesn't limit it to ones that you can't use but another Hero can).

We're dealing with the NA rules here, so obviously the EU may vary, but we did get the EQP (though I didn't personally own it, or the BQP which has the same info), it was officially released in our territory and it does indeed talk about "shock" (vs. 0 mind point heroes being rendered unconscious and taken out of the quest).

ROTWL says large amounts of gold should be "divided" among the Heroes to prevent conflict. It also explicitly allows you to divide other treasure finds, including when multiple artifacts are found. It also says weapon finds can be divided. You could be strict and say this only applies at the time of discovery, not later in the quest, but still...

EQP/BQP says:

Passing Items: A Hero can pass a potion, artifact, weapon or any other item to another Hero only if the 2 Heroes are in adjacent squares and neither Hero is adjacent to a monster.


Other than not being adjacent to a monster, we all pretty much assumed this was reasonably permissible. When we played as kids you could toss a potion across the corridor, but roll to see if it broke (butter fingers!), obviously that's a house rule, and we figured throwing a weapon was too dangerous (you caught it... with your face!).

That's more of an RPG thing... the player asks Zargon if he can perform some random, plausible feat, and rolls to see if it succeeds or fails (usually 50% chance). But it's not every turn. Homebrew, house rule.

Selling items is something we always knew about, even though we didn't buy the EQP (which explicitly explains how that works, as does the BQP). I'll keep looking (wanted to see for myself) where it states that. Seems like a pretty common game mechanic. Maybe a friend told me this and I just liked it and always played that way? [Edit: Japanese version of HQ explicitly states the sell back at 50% list price to the Armory rule]

Re-reading these rules due to these great discussions I often find little tidbits that I had forgotten. I often forget that Wandering Monster encounters don't (necessarily) end the heroes turn. You defend after the attack (and you already used your action, assuming you triggered him by searching) but you may still have your movement left, etc.
Last edited by Kurgan on May 14th, 2021, 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Daedalus » November 11th, 2020, 6:01 pm

Oftkilted wrote:While the evil Wizard could allow anything they’d like, I’ve never found rules that allow heroes to do anything other than pass potions, weapons, equipment and artifacts. Actually swapping a weapon is neither an action. Nor is it mentioned as an option in the game. An EWP could choose to make something an action. But it isn’t on the list of available player actions in the rules. Players can go to the armory between adventures to improve their gear. But it isn’t defined as an in adventure option. (I’d be really appreciative if someone could point me to a source that says otherwise.)

Though it's always each Morcar's/Zargon's fiat to rule as suits his game, I can point to how I use the NA rules to infer swapping weapons is justified.

Instruction Booklet, p.7 wrote:Attack Dice
They reflect the fighting power of the
Hero's weapon. During the Quest, the
Hero's attack strength will be continually
be changed by events (spells, combat, etc.).

Here attack strength is said to change during a Quest. The "etc." could apply to drinking a potion, but it could also apply to swapping the attack strength of a different weapon. Either qualifies as an event, as "etc." is an open term of relation. Note the other Actions (searches and disarm) are excluded from such events as they don't affect Attack Dice. Well, I guess a Search for Treasure would count if a Hero found the Wizard's Staff or the like and swapped it in hand.

Instruction Booklet, p.13 wrote:Action 1--Attack
---------------------------------- . . . You
may, however, only attack once per
turn. Your attack strength depends on
your attack weapons. . . .


Important: You may only attack with one weapon at a time.

Though it is made explicit a Hero may only attack once per turn, the rules go on to explain the strength depends on weapons, and attacking only one at a time is possible. I gather from this extra information that a choice of weapons each turn is allowed in Quest. No action is mentioned in swapping, so I'd say just allow it as an extra, like drinking a potion.
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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Kurgan » November 11th, 2020, 6:09 pm

Right and there are exceptions, as in Heroic Brew which allows two attacks instead of one (for one attack). It all builds upon itself. But if all you had was the game system, you can still make a reasonable argument that it's permissible even if not explicit... (talking giving a weapon to another Hero here, as opposed to swapping between weapons yourself, which I think should be pretty implicit).

Orc26 wrote:Suddenly the crossbow looks like much less of a good investment if you can never switch to a melee weapon...



Great point! Though a true rules lawyer could say that if you are stuck using the Crossbow, you can only "punch" the enemy at close range with 1 combat die. Not saying I agree, but that would be an option, if you're ignoring Expansions where ranged Mercenaries have a secondary weapon for adjacent attacks. Unarmed combat is defined in the game system (Quest 6, no weapons means 1 combat die attack, no armor means 2 combat dice defense).

By the way, did anyone ever run into a situation where a Hero had two shields and no weapon) so he could have extra defense? I recall seeing that statement on a BBS back in the day (yes, a BBS, look it up).


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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Oftkilted » November 11th, 2020, 7:06 pm

Orc26 wrote:Suddenly the crossbow looks like much less of a good investment if you can never switch to a melee weapon...

Swapping between a ranged and a melee weapon is already in game. That was done with the Dark Warrior crossbowmen. They have a ranged attack, and a melee attack.
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Re: NA 2nd Edition errata suggestions

Postby Kurgan » November 11th, 2020, 7:46 pm

Oftkilted wrote:
Orc26 wrote:Suddenly the crossbow looks like much less of a good investment if you can never switch to a melee weapon...

Swapping between a ranged and a melee weapon is already in game. That was done with the Dark Warrior crossbowmen. They have a ranged attack, and a melee attack.


In the US we didn't get this "Dark Company" with the Advanced Quest edition of the Game System (thank goodness for the online Heroquest community!). But it clarifies a rule that appears in our own BQP (and EQP), that characters can possess and use multiple weapons. Would you argue this ONLY applies to switching between melee and ranged?

I'm going further and saying you can pass equipment (not just dividing up big gold rewards, potions, artifacts... or weapons when you first find them), and once you get that weapon, you can use it on your turn. I'd say the same about Armor. The only caveat seems to be that you can gift something on your turn only. So you first have to toss him the idol, and on his turn he can toss you the whip, Indy.

If Hasbro wants to write "you can give away all kinds of weapons and armor on your turn too" in the 2021 rule book, I'm cool with that.


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