The Role of the Empire in Hero Quest

[Goblin-King]

And now for another thought. A lot of the knowledge we have about Mentor and the Empire comes from the pre- and post-Quest Pack text in the expansion sets. For those of you who play mostly custom Quests, does removing those adventures from the playlist also remove their storylines from your world's canon? (I.E. if you don't play the base 14 Quests, does the Witch Lourde remain asleep, or...?)

When we make custom quests they are usually stand alone. Sometimes Morcar will be part of the intro, but usually the events of the official quests are utterly unimportant.
It's not so much a question if the events are canon or not as it's just doesn't have any influence on the quest being played.
If forced, I'd say the events are canon. The players have all gone through the official material after all.
Just like everything in the real world doesn't revolve around the war in Afghanistan, the quests in HQ can be about something else than just the war against Morcar.

[cynthialee]

The Witch Lord has been dispatched. He has been whacked and left as ashes on the dungeon floor. Twice now. I don't tend to worry to much about dead NPC's.


The storylines are just guides and ideas. If I was to keep it cannon my players would wonder where their glory lays. The storyline has been subject to change and revision as sometimes the games played out do not support the continuance of the storyline as presented.

[torilen]

If I am creating quests that would take place in the warhammer world...that is, they could go along with
all the rest of the quests/quest packs if a group chose to use them...then I take all the back history and
lore into account.

If they're just one-off quests, or quests that would have nothing to do with the warhammer world, then
I don't.

I know...that sounds kind of self-explanatory...but not really. Unfortunately, I don't have the brain power
to finish explaining my point right now - been awake for 25-1/2 hours right now. I'll try to remember to
come back and finish tomorrow, perhaps.

[slev]

Though - thinking about it - elector princes would make sense. I guess it was just poorly written in that
wikia - it simply says electors, which could mean almost anything...from elector princes to full-on
democracy or republic.

In Warhammer "Electors" repreents a collected number of groups who have a vote in the Valkshalle assembly when electing a new Emperor.

The Electors are:
+The Elector Counts, part 1 - the ruling head of each of the twelve* provinces, their exact title (Graf, Grand Prince, Duke, etc) varying by location. They technically should each by the hereditary holders of teh Runefangs, but politics. The Emperor rules the Reikland directly.
+The Elector Counts, part 2 - the ruling head of each of the four** city states, their exact title (Graf, Grand Prince, Duke, etc) varying by location. The Emperor rules Altdorf directly
+The Elder of the Moot, the Halfling protectorate within the Empire
+The High Priest of Cult of Ulric
+The two Arch Lectors and the Grand Theogonist of the Cult of Sigmar
+The Supreme Patriarch of the Imperial Colleges of Magic

*The numbers here are varied by source and retcon. A map error needing to be explain caused Solland to be combined with Wissenland, leaving a spare. At some point, they forgot that the Westerland (Wasteland) used to be part of the Empire, and said that Drackwald used to be a province that was likewise absorbed into others.
**The arival of Mordheim in the history of the Empire as a destroyed city was not retconned back in the number of Electors. Enither was the identity of Marienburg and it's status addressed considering the political implication of the sucession of the Westerland (Wasteland).

[Daedalus]

...Basically, what is the relationship of the Heroes to the Emperor, the Empire at large and even to Mentor himself?

I'll start with Mentor as he is the character about whom we know the most (or do we?). According to the lore, it seems this wizened old man is personally responsible for training up the four Heroes, and others as well, including the Empire's hated enemy Morcar/Zargon. Yet he claims he cannot intervene directly with the knowledge he gains from Loretome, lest the world end or something. Why did Mentor choose to train these greenhorn Heroes at all? Is he really feeble from his old age, or a powerful wizard in his own right? How has he lived for so long? (It can be inferred the Mentor is much older than most normal humans, as he personally trained M/Z in the age of Rogar and Co, which was over 1,000 years ago.)

Mentor knows the importance of proper training better than anyone. Many centuries ago, M/Z took the Chaos shortcut to power against Mentor's warnings. This only netted M/Z a stalemate against his master and powerful Chaos allies that will destroy the impatient sorcerer in time. Since then, M/Z has since honed his skills and conjured more ancient threats against the Empire which Mentor must now constantly monitor through Loretome. According to Mentor, the guy with the omnicient knowlege of Loretome, relax this vigil just a bit and Chaos wins. Thus Mentor needs a third party to take action on his behalf in order to tip the scales for the Empire.

Back when the Empire's bravest warriors fled before the massed hordes of Chaos, Mentor recounts that the Borderland prince Rogar aided him in defeating those forces of M/Z. First, Rogar rallied the people with the Star of the West, as worn by ancient kings. How would a Barbarian come by such a thing? Most likely Mentor learned of it in Loretome and sent Rogar to retrieve this valuable treasure in a Quest. That on-the-job training earned Rogar the right to bear the symbol and attract an army. This crucial element is something the guardian of Loretome would know was necessary for success where other brave warriors had previously failed.

Rogar and his companions next went on to score many smaller victories against the forces of M/Z (very Quest-like.) When Rogar had thus gotten his army well-trained, he only then went on to defeat M's/Z's forces. No doubt Mentor advised this necessary process to victory. The Empire didn't just need brave warriors, but skilled ones.

This history lesson of Mentor's reveals his relationship to the Heroes. He sends them on missions so that they may be properly trained. Simply giving them gear isn't enough to prevail. Power-ups must be earned so that the needed level of skill can be achieved to use them in ultimate victory. So it was with Rogar and his companions. The thousand-year-old immortal keeper of Loretome is wise enough to know this and relies on the merit system. He sends the Heroes on Quests to do what is necessary on the way to M/Z's defeat, as shown by Loretome.

[Spookyhappyfun]

You guys? This old thread? This is fantastic stuff! Wonderful story inspiration!

[j_dean80]

Uhm... I think he knew that.

When I recalled the name, I though it was so cheesy I did a double take.

These two locations look like Tolkien just gave up and let his kids name them!

Lake Town
Mount Doom

Such contrast with all of the other names.

Lake-town is a very "simple" name and should have been changed. It's successor town on the lake was given the name Esgaroth which is more fitting to other names.
As for Mount Doom it is the English translation of Amon Amarth.

[whitebeard]

Uhm... I think he knew that.

When I recalled the name, I though it was so cheesy I did a double take.

These two locations look like Tolkien just gave up and let his kids name them!

Lake Town
Mount Doom

Such contrast with all of the other names.

Lake-town is a very "simple" name and should have been changed. It's successor town on the lake was given the name Esgaroth which is more fitting to other names.
As for Mount Doom it is the English translation of Amon Amarth.

Smoke rises once more from Orodruin that we call Mount Doom. -Boromir

My point is that if the original name was sinister sounding and/or lore build up while repeating the name, then they would still use it. Commoners would be terrified enough without having to rename it. We do not use Goblin-cleaver and Foe-Hammer, these titles/translations are mentioned only in passing and it's hard to forget Orcrist and Glamdring.

Orodruin could have been renamed by Sauron into something twisted and terrifying in its own right. Think Nazgul, Mordor, etc.

[j_dean80]

Uhm... I think he knew that.

When I recalled the name, I though it was so cheesy I did a double take.

These two locations look like Tolkien just gave up and let his kids name them!

Lake Town
Mount Doom

Such contrast with all of the other names.

Lake-town is a very "simple" name and should have been changed. It's successor town on the lake was given the name Esgaroth which is more fitting to other names.
As for Mount Doom it is the English translation of Amon Amarth.

Smoke rises once more from Orodruin that we call Mount Doom. -Boromir

My point is that if the original name was sinister sounding and/or lore build up while repeating the name, then they would still use it. Commoners would be terrified enough without having to rename it. We do not use Goblin-cleaver and Foe-Hammer, these titles/translations are mentioned only in passing and it's hard to forget Orcrist and Glamdring.

Orodruin could have been renamed by Sauron into something twisted and terrifying in its own right. Think Nazgul, Mordor, etc.

Orodruin was the "common name" but Amon Amarth is the literal translation so both are correct.

Maybe Sauron liked the name Mount Doom.

[whitebeard]

Orodruin appears to be the "proper name" given to the place even before Sauron claimed it as his own.

The Middle-Earthers over at Encyclopedia Arda say this:
Orodruin had lain dormant for that time, but it now burst into new flame, and the Gondorians perceived that it meant the return of Sauron. Thus they gave the Fire-mountain a new Elvish name, Amon Amarth, meaning 'hill of doom', though almost universally translated as 'Mount Doom'.

So the whole Mount Doom thing and its translations are a temporary name.

Morgul, Cirith Ungol, Barad-dur... all cool creepy names. Mt. Doom sounds like a Marvel vilian's hide out.

But it is cool that the locals would start using this name.