Why dragon are so hard...

[whitebeard]

A possible solution when using dragons with the stats as above, could be that the dragon is too large to fit through most doors and passages. The heroes could use a hit-and-run tactic. You could define that the breath weapon doesn't travel around corners, so in a properly designed dungeon, the heroes could have a chance.
Of course, the core rule of turn order that figures can only move-then-act or act-then-move may render this concept impossible. I dunno, would have to think it more throughoutly or even playtest.
For "realism" of course the dragon's lair would have to have at least one exit large enough for the dragon to use, but there can be several smaller ones that the heroes can utilize for guerillia fight. The dragon would not normally use the large one, leaving his hoard, as long as those tiny robbers are still in his cave.

Reaper has several dragons. The one I have is about a 2x3 foot print (on my 30mm board). We will likely allow the dragon several attacks, even using the tail if a hero lines up near the back. If the dragon is wounded, it could retreat (mechanic like a sorcerer with a return spell to a secluded chamber without a door). The implied exit from the dragon's chamber is to climb/fly out through a hole leading to the surface. But it should be clear that the heroes may all die… The first hero hit by the flame breath loses all of his magic potions (or rolls one red die to save each)!! And the dragon may still breath a few more times! I was never a fan of dragons using magic directly. Perhaps the "command" spell would be a good one, allowing the dragon's appearance and intelligence to enchant a member of the party for a short time (long enough to snap their head off).

When enraged by said guerrilla tactics, the dragon should be able to break the walls and doors. Having a similar effect as falling block traps. You can even put this on the map. Perhaps with the way becomes closed behind a hero and the dragon can bring it's head into the hallway 1 square and attack the adjacent hero, who has nowhere to go! One biting / breath attack per turn) from there?

Killing a 3x2 dragon is possible for the group of 4, but as has been said, this need not be the quest objective. But it should feel like less conventional combat. Perhaps you can only really attack the flanks? And the dragon can push you out of the way and pivot as it desires?

If the deed is successful, the heroes will be quite vulnerable on the road with only a fraction of the gold. Of course killing the dragon will bring others to loot the treasure… "You fools! Now Zargon will plunder the hoard and his armies in this region will be unstoppable. Now you must protect the hoard until the emperor's wagons arrive." -Mentor

Once the emperor is involved, the loot will be returned to any obvious owners (like himself) and further used to make reparations for those who lived in the shadow of the dragon. Maybe you walk away with gems and items worth 1,000 gold coins? Maybe you can resurrect your two dead friends as well?

[Goblin-King]

I think one of the problems I have with putting in a dragon is that it quickly leads to power creeping.
Others have already mentioned the heroes getting better/special gear to make the battle more equal.
But if you have to buff the heroes immensely why even bother put in such a big monster?

Endgear heroes have 7, 6, 6, 4 ind defense respectively if I recall correctly.
How powerful should a dragon's attack be for it to both pose a serious challange, but not instakill the party?

Actually whitebeards pivot mechanic is not bad.
The dragon is centered static in the middle of the room. each turn it can rotate either 90 degrees left or right; before or after making it's attacks.
It makes a dangerous fire attack against those standing in front of it and a weak tail sweep attack against everyone standing behind it.
That way you are never safe. If you stand on the side of the dragon, you might get a fire attack next round.
If you stand behind it you are safe from the fire but you are definitely taking a hit from the tail.
Maybe at half BP it casts Firestorm

[Count Mohawk]

I think one of the problems I have with putting in a dragon is that it quickly leads to power creeping.
Others have already mentioned the heroes getting better/special gear to make the battle more equal.
But if you have to buff the heroes immensely why even bother put in such a big monster?

Endgear heroes have 7, 6, 6, 4 ind defense respectively if I recall correctly.
How powerful should a dragon's attack be for it to both pose a serious challange, but not instakill the party?

9 dice would probably do it. Against the frail and flimsy Wizard you can expect about 3.2 BP lost per attack; against the Barbarian (or whoever it is that has the 7) it deals closer to 2.3 BP per attack. That's a lot of damage, but not insurmountably high, although it would also depend on how long the Heroes take to bring it down. I personally like the idea of the Dragon having two choices for attacking: a single-target strike rolling 8-12 dice, or a somewhat weaker area-of-effect attack from its breath, say with 5-6 dice in a 2x2 area.

[Anderas]

The power creep problem could be avoided if you make a weapon that works only against the dragon.

[mitchiemasha]

ah a dragon blade! Problem solved.

Guess what heroes find in the previous quest?

[whitebeard]

Breath weapon (fire) cannot be evaded line of sight wise... I would roll 4 red dice (fire spell) for each front facing adjacent player (including diagonal) and 2 dice for front facing players (+-45 degree cone) in the same room. The dragon can breath fire into an adjacent room (through an adjacent door). The dragon breaths fire all the time... But this type of intense fire spray can maybe be used only twice per encounter? And I would give the dragon two independent weaker attacks up front when not using breath. It has a lot of surface area exposed, he needs to be able to fight two heros at the same time.

Range weapons and spells should shoot over other Heros without penalty to hit the towering dragon.

I still like having multiple entrances and smashing them! Perhaps a new entrance should be formed when 2 are smashed separating the heros. Make swift wind an obviously important tactical spell for once (e.g. running through the dungeon 12 spaces and flanking at this new entrance).

[sajungzak]

The direction the hero is 'facing' has no effect in HeroQuest originally. Mechanics for turning would have to be figured. Perhaps it would cost an action or a move point? You cannot simply allow one turn per turn otherwise they would always turn their backs to the flame at the end of every turn making the fire breath attack pointless.

For me, it is important to keep the direction a figure is facing inconsequential.

[Count Mohawk]

ah a dragon blade! Problem solved.

Guess what heroes find in the previous quest?

As long as that's not the only way to hurt the dragon, I am OK with this. Otherwise you're basically playing Witch Lourde 2.0. For the Dragonsbane sword, I would probably write something like 'Roll three combat dice when attacking with this sword. If you are attacking a dragon, you instead roll five combat dice, and the dragon rolls half as many combat dice in defense, rounded up.'

[whitebeard]

The direction the hero is 'facing' has no effect in HeroQuest originally. Mechanics for turning would have to be figured. Perhaps it would cost an action or a move point? You cannot simply allow one turn per turn otherwise they would always turn their backs to the flame at the end of every turn making the fire breath attack pointless.

For me, it is important to keep the direction a figure is facing inconsequential.

Um, yeah. Sorry about the confusion. It's about the direction the 2x3 dragon is facing, not the hero. It can turn and breath in a cone. So you cannot hide.

[Anderas]

'Roll three combat dice when attacking with this sword. If you are attacking a dragon, you instead roll five combat dice, and the dragon rolls half as many combat dice in defense, rounded up.'

I would go so far to give it these dice only against one specific dragon.
And I would let them find it after the first encounter, not before.