Advice for Dealing with Problem Players?

[torilen]

I could understand, maybe, in the case that GK said...if a player is maybe
opening doors all willy-nilly and making general havoc, then the other players
might want to hand him a little beat down to get a lesson across - don't do it again.

And, perhaps, in the right spirit with the right group of players/friends, it wouldn't
be a problem. I can't think of one off the top of my head, really - unless the character
has some actually in-game, background motivation for doing something. Maybe a thief
has a fence that's is making him get a certain type of object, and someone in the party
finds that certain type of object, and so the thief HAS to try and steal it.

The situation I experienced, and what gimmeyergold is experiencing, was certainly not
in the right spirit of things. It was clearly someone just spreading hate and discontent
under the guise of their character being a thief or assassin.

As far as European rules vs. NA, I've looked very little at the European rules, so I wouldn't
have known that. I think if my group was going to play in a way in which they were allowed
to attack each other like that, we would all talk about it before starting so that everyone
understood that it might happen. At that point, it wouldn't become a problem, I would expect.

[GimmeYerGold]

UPDATE.

So between this post, and our recent game, things have improved greatly. Part of it might have been due to me addressing the problem directly with my "problem player" (out-of-game,) or if whatever else in his life that's causing angst is working itself out. Also, during the quest prompt, I emphasized how difficult the quest might be, and how the heroes need to work together to survive. (I think this is also part of the script in The Trial quest.)

I can tell my "problem player" dialed it back enough for the other players to enjoy his involvement, and felt he was part of the team, *because* one of the other players gave his potion of alchemy to the "problem player" to help him get some extra gold. Which, I think if you're playing as the Wizard, it's hard to earn a lot of gold on your own, so being a team player can help you get a share of the loot. (This sharing behavior I noticed only usually happened between players who actively worked together during quests. BUDDIES.) There were no flare-ups during the quest, or rule disputes. Everyone had fun. Things were just as they should be!

So, I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but I think my "problem player" is headed on the right track, and trying to make the wizard character work out for him. Thanks for all the tips and support!

[artisturn]

Glad to read,that your player problems are working themselves out.

Nothing can be more of a pain then one player spoiling the whole game for everyone.
I have not had that be a problem in the HQ games.
But I have had that happen in our RPG group, we had one player who would was being a pain in the ass and GM kicked him out of the group.
In our RPG group we take turns being the GM and in one game the wizard stuttered so the player was acting it out and we asked him to drop it because it really added a lot of time to the game, his wizard really had a terrible stutter. it was cool the first game but it got old real fast.

[GimmeYerGold]

One of my old players sat in as the Barbarian during our last game, and commented that the wizard (the "problem player" in this thread) wasn't using his spells correctly. I noticed that the Wizard still had a big stack of spells near the end of the quest. I had to agree with this observation. Even when I pointed out to this wizard character that he could make better use of his spells, (thereby making better use of his character, thereby having more fun) he continued to be pretty limited with the spells, like casting Courage on himself, with the hopes of making some cool kills. (He even made a request to the other players at the beginning of the quest when the spells are divided that he might have certain spell groups saved for his use.)

I dunno, to each his own, but I think if you're saving all your spells to cast on only yourself, or hoping to dish them out in an epic boss battle, you might be disappointed playing as the wizard, more often than not :/ I'm hoping things work themselves out, because the more attention I give in helping this problem player enjoy himself during the game, the more the other players will feel left out.

It's during moments like this, I realize that "negative attention" is something that adults actively seek out, too. I tend to try to be a "fixer," so playing too much into a person's complaints or critiques can be counterproductive!

[Jafazo]

.... Even when I pointed out to this wizard character that he could make better use of his spells....

I was reading through this topic and couldn't help but smile, especially when you updated to inform us your situation had gotten better. The first course of action that came to my mind was definitely to talk it out with your player and figure out why he's behaving the way he is. I'm glad that in this case, that method worked, but when I came across the text I bolded above, I kind of shook my head. Problems within games will always come and go, there's no real immunity, but doing things like this, like telling your players how to play or even HINTING or suggesting that there's a better way to play, is a major No No in my book.

Players are the stars, always, no exceptions. Don't SPOIL them, but they're the stars, and don't forget that they're gonna BE the stars, THEIR way... not your way. It seems to me like this player likes to shine. He's a kick in the door styled player who likes the glory and wants to stand in the spotlight. He wants to get back to town and run from mobs of women and be asked permission by the King to shake his hand. I say, give it to him... in moderation, tastefully. You've gotta make it happen. Firstly, if he isn't happy as the Wizard, I'd LET him play as a Barbarian even if it gives us two barbarians. Having fun comes first in my book and I don't think two barbarians would ruin gameplay so much. Just give the Heroes access to whatever means of magic they might need via some other means. I'd try to discourage two barbarians by letting him play the Wizard his way though, which I'll explain.

The problem with the original Wizard in HQ is he only has 9 spells and once he uses them up, he follows the rest of the Heroes around and feels useless. I'm sorry, but the Wizard sucks. No two characters are created equally but that's a debate for another day. Your "Problem Player" is pooling his resources because he wants to open the door, find a colossal golem that is immune to all forms of damage except Magic, and he wants to unleash a flurry of spells and decimate it with a magical assault that would make the fourth of July seem like baby sparks. I say, give it to him, so here are some ideas...

1. Introduce special Rune Marked doors that can only be opened by a magic user (Elf or Wizard).

2. Devise a way to let the Wizard recover fire spells he's used so he'll start throwing fireballs around more freely. You can place Shrines throughout your adventure like a Shrine of Flame, Shrine of Water, Shrine of Earth, and Shrine of Wind and make it so only a magic user can use them. If they do, the shrine is used up, goes away and the magic user recovers 1 or 2 spells of that element. This way you can control exactly what kinds of spells he's getting back too.

3. Toss in some monsters who are vulnerable to magic. Anytime the Wizard smacks it with magic damage, it inflicts twice the damage.

4. Stop feeding the Heroes too many potions of healing and instead focus on placing Shrines of Water or Earth around so the Wizard and Elf hungrily take back healing spells. Fellow Heroes will appreciate the healing support more and will fight tooth and nail to protect their mages. He'll feel special.

Adjust YOUR game so it's designed around the kind of Wizard he wants to play. Sadly, the Wizard isn't much of a heavy hitter, but you're the GM, you can change that.

[whitebeard]

1. Introduce special Rune Marked doors that can only be opened by a magic user (Elf or Wizard).

2. Devise a way to let the Wizard recover fire spells he's used so he'll start throwing fireballs around more freely...

3. Toss in some monsters who are vulnerable to magic. Anytime the Wizard smacks it with magic damage, it inflicts twice the damage...

4. Stop feeding the Heroes too many potions of healing and instead focus on placing Shrines of Water or Earth...

Well done! I have yet to see a player play only the wizard and certainly he would be the last one picked.

With only 3 offensive spells (possibly only 2 if the elf takes the air spells), the magic staff artifact may need to be found earlier and as you say here, against some foes this can count double. While the other heroes buy new equipment, there is very little for the wizard to expand his abilities. Rings, wands, staffs, and scrolls, which enhance his spells are needed after the basic quest. Even so, doubling up the fire spells should not unbalance anything in the basic quests as long as he cannot save them for the final boss. The shrines are great way to do this as he cannot "carry" the extra copies.

Alternatively perhaps the wizard can choose an element at the beginning of the quest and can re-acquire one spell from that group after subsequently casting one spell each from the other groups?

[GimmeYerGold]

I like these ideas a lot! I will work some of them in and let you know the results.

I have two skill cards available to the wizard that allow him to trade 3 spells for a Chaos Spell, and also another skill that allows him to draw random spell cards from the ones that have already been cast. Both of these will be available to the Wizard in 2-4 quests, so it's just waiting that's the hard part.

I agree that the wizard-only artifacts are a nice boost for the Wizard---after seeing so many items described as "cannot be used by the wizard," it's nice to see WIZARD ONLY.

[cynthialee]

I like the idea of the doors only a mage can open.

[GimmeYerGold]

There is a door in the Kellar's Keep expansion pack that can only be opened by a hero rolling less than or equal to their current number of Mind points on two red dice--the Dwarf need only roll 1 red die. I think a door like this where the Wizard gets the advantage would be appropriate.

I've also seen a similar mechanic in the Dark Company where the Elf or Wizard can "read" the spellbook at the sorcerer's table, and obtain a number of their discarded spells, however I think there is a chance the dice roll will make them lose a body point, so it's a gamble.

I have two custom monsters, a ghost and a banshee that have high defense (hard to hit because they're "incorporeal") and these monsters often become the target of spells, which typically rip right through a monster's standard defense dice.

In previous custom scenarios, I had a mechanic called "enchantments" that were points a spellcaster acquired by casting all his spells from a spell group. They were used to upgrade equipment--I scrapped that because it was too much to keep up with, and complicated things, but having a motivation mechanic to cast all the spells did assist in making a more engaged Wizard.

[Gold Bearer]

Put a storm wand in the next quest to let him cast combined spells. viewtopic.php?f=203&t=2608&p=44982#p44982 That should keep him interested.