Balancing your quests

[Daedalus]

@torilen-
This is the thread I worked on before. It's a pretty good start, but it may take some more tweaking to get it accurate. If you bother to read deep into it, it gets kinda crazy, so beware. The front of the thread has all you need to work off of, I think. By the end, I had to stop because I didn't have the means to read a document from another contributor with superior statistical skills. I gotta admit up front there are some analytical flaws that were discovered, but it still should be good for working with or developing from if you're so inclined.

[Thrawn]

Daedalus was the one who inspired me to look further into trying to come up with a statistical comparison between quests. I actually used his system to stat up all my quests to compare them with the beginning quests. As he said, there are a few things that weren't perfect statistically, but this is the basis for any work the rest of us have done.

[Daedalus]

@Thrawn-
Looking forward to your results. It sure would be great to have a better model to base further work off of. I should try to improve the system myself, but it's such a beast, so I haven't yet. Lots more to learn and figure.

[torilen]

I went at this again this morning, and came to some better revelations.

Here is what I came up with. Note on the character totals, the number in (*) is the character's
total without their spells or special abilities. The character power levels are based on the basic
starting hero.

Under the quest totals, you will see a portion for individual rooms. I chose those rooms with what
seemed to be the highest power levels and just worked those out, to give an idea of how hard a
single room should be.

How to balance each quest
Characters
barbarian: body = 8;attack = 3;defend = 2;total = 13 (13)
elf: body = 6;attack = 2;defend = 2;special = 3;total = 13 (10)
dwarf: body = 7;attack = 2;defend = 2;special = 2;total = 13 (11)
wizard: body = 4;attack = 1;defend = 2;special = 9;total = 16 (7)
total party = 55 (41)

Monsters
goblin: body = 1;attack = 2;defend = 1;total = 4
orc: body = 1;attack = 3;defend = 2;total = 6
fimir: body = 2;attack = 3;defend = 3;total = 8
---------------------------------------------------------------
skeleton: body = 1;attack = 2;defend = 2;total = 5
zombie: body = 1;attack = 2;defend = 3;total = 6
mummy: body = 2;attack = 3;defend = 4;total = 9
---------------------------------------------------------------
chaos warrior: body = 3;attack = 4;defend = 4;total = 11
gargoyle: body = 3;attack = 4;defend = 5;total = 12

spells = +1 per
traps = +1 per BP lost
other = +1, +2, +3, etc.
-----monsters aware/surprise = +5

Q1 = 160 - individual rooms = 35/22/21
Q2 = 109 - individual rooms = 14
Q3 = 115 - individual rooms = 26/25
Q4 = 122 - individual rooms = 39
Q5 = 122 - individual rooms = 31/18
Q6 = 151 - individual rooms = 38/34

That's all I've worked out so far. I think you all would be interested in knowing, however, that
using this system of balancing for RoTWL give the first quest a total of 253. That is insane...
considering the heroes do not get any advancement in the basic game system, and the
artifacts given throughout the quest packs do not add up to much. The heroes are basically
boned going into the game from the start.

Oh well.

[torilen]

I've reworked the characters, and analyzed things a bit more. Here is what I have come up with:
+1 per body point
+1 per attack die
+1 per defense die
+1 per spell (for casters)
+2 for bonus abilities (dwarf's trap ability)
+2 for use of all weapons and armor; +1 if there is a minor restriction; +0 if totally restricted.
(optional +1 per mind point, as these do come into play occasionally)

Barbarian
16 (18 using mind points)

Dwarf
15 (18 using mind points)

Elf
15 (19 using mind points)

Wizard
16 (22 using mind points)

****
****
****
AND NOW FOR NEW CHARACTERS - you will notice these are balanced nearly perfectly with the other characters.
NOTE that the defense is not shown - it is assumed that all characters start with 2 DD, no armor

Halfling
Body - 5
Mind = 5
Sling = 1 AD, ranged attack
Special: Can search any time, even when monsters are present
Special: Varied attack dice, see below
Special: All weapons and armor must be sized properly; weapons +50 gold, armor +100 gold
Varied Attack: vs. small creatures, as is; vs. medium creatures +1; vs. large size 1 +2; vs. large size 2 +3; vs large size 3 +4; etc.
Total = 13 (18 using mind points)

Gnome
Body = 7
Mind = 3
Hammer = 2 AD, can be thrown
Special: Spells - 1 Spell Group (3 spells)
Total = 17 (20 using mind points)

Paladin
Body = 8
Mind = 2
Mace = 3 AD
Special: Spell - healing pool (see torilen's expanded spells here viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1212&p=12684#p12684
Special: Spell - Curing Pool (as healing pool, except it heals poison and/or disease damage)
Special: Can use any armor; can only use bludgeoning weapons (hammer, mace, war hammer, etc.)
Total = 16 (18 using mind points)

Druid
Body = 4
Mind = 6
Staff = 1 AD, reach
Special: Spells - Animal Set 1 and 2, Plant (see torilen's expanded spells)
Special: Can use any armor and weapon, as long as there is not metal included in item
Total = 17 (23 using mind points)

[torilen]

Okay - I worked on the option of Level Up for characters, based on my analysis of character
power, trying to balance things out. I guess this would work - though it is pretty generic and
cliche, as far as role playing games go. But, anyhow...enjoy.

Slide3.JPG

Slide4.JPG

Slide5.JPG

[torilen]

I decided to put my expanded (and well-balanced) character list into card format...to
make it easier to use the characters during game play. You know...just like they give the
character cards in the original game system.

I also included several cards with the character balancing analysis formula that I used to
balance all of my expanded characters. I think I have eight in there, so that you can play
with up to 8 players.

Here they are, if anyone is interested. Enjoy.

LOOK AT THE NEXT COMMENT FOR THE UPDATED FILE

[torilen]

Okay - I have revised my expanded character cards, rewritten a few things, and actually
made them more like the original character cards - with some information on front and
some on the back.

I expanded and rewrote the leveling-up information, as well. Each character has their own
set of options (though many of them are similar or the same as others).

Here is a list of the characters included:
Human Warrior (basically original Barbarian)
Human Wizard (basically original Wizard)
Human Druid
Human Paladin
Human Thief
Human Priest
Dwarf (basically original Dwarf)
Elf (basically original Elf)
Halfling
Gnome
Dwarf Priest
Elf Wizard
Human Bard

It will probably be a little too extensive for most fans here at the inn...but this is how I envision
turning HQ into more of an actual role playing game, while trying my best to keep to the spirit of
the board game aspect.

Enjoy.

expanded characters - cards.pdf

[Kyle+]

Very nice work! I came up with the same system of measuring character strength by adding body, attack, and defend stats and calling it the character's point value (pv). Solid. I think that it becomes more difficult to assess a game's balance when dealing with special abilities. For example, we could easily compare the Ball of Fire spell to the Fire of Wrath or even Firestorm spells, but is there a quantitative relationship between Ball of Fire and Veil of Mist? Given these challenges, your approach of weighting all spells equally makes the most sense.

Cheers!