Canonical order of quests?

[iKarith]

Is there agreement on a sort of canonical order for the quests to be played in? Going by the forum order, it would be:

Base Game System Quests
Kellar's Keep
Return of the Witch Lord
Against the Ogre Horde
Wizards of Morcar
The Mage of the Mirror
The Frozen Horror
The Dark Company

… and do we then regard the Japanese quests as non-canonical? Or can we kind of fit them in? (A couple of them feel like quests from elsewhere, such as heroes not recovering between ala Dark Company or the teleportation doors…)

[Kurgan]

I like the order presented above, which tends to go in order of difficulty, mostly. The Japanese quests are every bit as "canon" as all of the others. For kids in Japan, that was HeroQuest for them in 1991, just like the US version was canon for us in the USA and the EU version was canon for kids in the UK, Brazil had their canonical version, etc. Some minor fights/debates have been fought on here over those who want to say that because HQ originated in the UK, therefore only stuff produced there is canon, or those who want to say that because the NA versions came out later, they are an update or upgrade (like playing the "new edition" of D&D I guess) and replaces the old (the Japanese version came out later and the Remake is coming out latest of all!).

I reject those absolutist arguments and just say play whatever you are most comfortable with. People have already done the work for you to make those things available IF you want them and to the extent that you want to use them. Phoenix has all of the EU quests converted to NA style, and the Inn has all of the NA exclusive cards converted to EU style (and vice versa). The Japanese game system (dubbed "rise of the chaos god") has been adapted to NA (and the EU, basically) on the forums [Edit: the author pulled his adaptation from the page once upon a time, but thankfully HispZargon has posted a translation that strives for accuracy with the original, upon which new adaptations could easily be based!]. All of the Brazilian exclusives have been converted to NA format on here (and EU style too if I recall). Even the paper-minis from that set are available in the galleries! (I'm not sure if paper minis have been made of all of the NA exclusive characters though, but who wants to use paper minis these days right? You could just print an extra copy of the card art and throw it on a cardboard standee)

The adaptation of all of the packs into EU style AND NA style is nice because it presents the two main rulesets with access to what they missed out on based on localization release.

Now its too bad we don't have a bunch of Japanese players here, adapting the other packs to their region, maybe it just wasn't as popular over there?

I bypassed the issue of order (in the old days we played GS, ROTWL and THEN KK and that's all we had, so we played custom quests after that until about 2002 when we discovered the Inn pages)....

I started off four brand new heroes (based on Legacy of Sorasil), Paladin, Ranger, Cleric and Mystic, to go on a mission to the Island of Nifon while the four "main" Heroes were fighting it out in the Ogre Horde (their "new" official mission in over a decade). This was nice too because they were generally weaker than the main heroes and those first several quests are designed with the Japanese rules where you have fewer abilities and so there are less monsters (and no traps) to worry about.

So "canon" doesn't matter to me so much as I want to play all of the official material that was ever released for Hero Quest and play it using the base rules I grew up with (but I stopped short of trying to track down the rare and expensive Advanced HeroQuest with its totally different rules and design philosophy... it's not an expansion but an entirely new game in itself).

The great thing about the Japanese set is that it basically provides you 14 new quests without needing to fabricate any new assets... you can play using your EU or NA game system easily enough.

Actually you could print out the new artifact cards, and if you really wanted to, print the "beginner" and "intermediate" magic cards (ONLY if you're using the original rules, as opposed to the NA/EU rules), but at most that's 9 or 10 cards. There are no new minis or tiles to worry about, the board is the same, etc.

[lestodante]

in order of release I would put the Barbarian Quest Pack before the Elf Quest Pack

[iKarith]

Would the barbarian quest be considered about the same as the elf quest in terms of difficulty?

I have the NA conversion of the Japanese quest book around here somewhere. I do not have the EU version. And the Brazillian The Quest … I didn't think that was any kind of official, licensed product. I want to find those assets though—I don't care if they're paper standees, I will get them lasered on to plastic sticker stock, apply that to styrene, and carefully xacto them out to use with standee clips glued to bases, I LOVE the art style of The Quest, it kinda reminds me of Biff's Dungeoncrawl, which I appreciate for similar reasons. Basically, a warped sense of humor.

[Cael Darkhollow]

you did see the pinned thread on quest order above didn't you?
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=110
Your questions have been asked and answered repeatedly. Many people do include homebrew quests in their lists, I prefer just the English language official published quests found in the Milton Bradley/Games Workshop games and expansions, the Marvel winter special and the White Dwarf magazines published by Games Workshop, and the official HeroQuest paperback novels published by Corgi (Games Workshop)
Foreign language quests can sometimes be very different or completely different in the case of the Japanese version of the game.
There are other quests found in other publications that do not have any official ties to Games Workshop or Milton Bradley. I don't include any of those or anything not made by the makers of HQ (Milton Bradley and Games Workshop.)

The publication order itself follows the in-game storyline in the quest books.

1989 HeroQuest Game System UK
1989 Kellar's Keep UK
1989 Return of the Witch Lord UK (later same year as KK)
1990 Against the Ogre Horde UK
1990 Adventure Design Kit UK
1990 rereleased HeroQuest Game System UK (revised)
1991 Wizards of Morcar UK
1991 Hero Quest Advanced Quest Edition (The Dark Company) UK
Australia and Europe release dates were later for the same products

1990 HeroQuest Game System North American version
1991 Kellar's Keep North American version
1991 Return of the Witch Lord North American version (released same time as KK in NA)
1992 Barbarian Quest Pack (The Frozen Horror) NA exclusive
1992 Elf Quest Pack [later rereleased as Quest Pack for the Elf] (The Mage of the Mirror) NA exclusive. released at the same time as Barbarian Quest Pack

So if we take just the official game products and the product release dates the order of quests should/would be:

HeroQuest Game System Quest Book 14 quests
1a. The Maze, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System (UK)
1b. The Trial, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
2. The Rescue of Sir Ragnar, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
3. Lair of the Orc Warlord, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
4. Prince Magnus' Gold, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
5. Melar's Maze, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
6. Legacy of the Orc Warlord, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
7. The Lost Wizard, (called The Stone Hunter in UK version) Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
8. The Fire Mage, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
9. Race Against Time, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
10. Castle of Mystery, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
11. Bastion of Chaos, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
12. Barak Tor- Barrow of the Witch Lord, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
13. Quest for the Spirit Blade, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System
14. Return to Barak Tor, Quest Book HeroQuest Game System

Kellar's Keep Quest Pack 10 quests
15. The Great Gate, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
16. The Warrior Halls, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
17. The Spiral Passage, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
18. The Dwarven Forge, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
19. Hall of the Dwarven Kings, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
20. The Great Citadel, Kellars's Keep Quest Book
21. The Eastern Passage, kellar's Keep Quest Book
22. Belorn's Mine, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
23. The East Gate, Kellar's Keep Quest Book
24. Grin's Crag, Kellar's Keep Quest Book

Return of the Witch Lord Quest Pack 10 quests
25. The Gate of Doom, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
26. The Cold Halls, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
27. The Silent Passages, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
28. The Halls of Vision, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
29. The Gate of Bellthor, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
30. Halls of the Dead, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
31. The Forgotten Legion, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
32. The Forbidden Caverns, Return of the Witch Lord Quest Book
33. The Last Gate, Return of the Witch lord Quest Book
34. The Court of the Witch Lord, Return of the Witch Lord Quest book

Adventure design Kit 1 quest, while not in a quest book this quest is on an official product
35. (42.) Plague of Zombies, back of the box, Adventure design Kit (UK) alternatively could be played after AtOH both released in 1990

Against the Ogre Horde 7 quests
36. (35.) Search for Ogre Fortress, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
37. (36.) The Outer Caves, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
38. (37.) Lair of the Ogre Horde, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
39. (38.) The Carrion Halls, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
40. (39.) The Pit of Chaos, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
41. (40.) Fortress of the Ogre Lord, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book
42. (41.) Flight to the Surface, Against the Ogre Horde Quest Book

Wizards of Morcar 5 quests
43. The Tower of the High Mage, Wizards of Morcar Quest Book
44. Crypt of the Necromancer, Wizards of Morcar Quest Book
45. Eyrie of the Storm Master, Wizards of Morcar Quest Book
46. Lair of the Orc Shaman, Wizards of Morcar Quest Book
47. The final Conflict, Wizards of Morcar Quest Book

The in-game 5 quest book story line ended at Wizard's of Morcar. While Dark Company is next in publication (1991), many put this quest last due to it's large size and perceived difficulty; it makes a good finale.
HeroQuest Advanced Quest Edition 1 four-part mega-Quest
48. (68.) Dark Company, fold out map, HeroQuest Advanced Quest Edition (4 game boards adventure)

The Barbarian Quest Pack and Elf Quest Pack were released at the same time (1992) and do not tie directly into the main story line so either could be played first. Some choose to run Barbarian Quest right after Wizards of Morcar because of the Mercenaries available for hire in both, others run it after the Elf Quest due to it's perceived greater difficulty.
Barbarian Quest Pack 10 quests
48 or 49. (58.) Xanon Pass Solo Quest, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
49 or 50. (59.) Trial by Ice Solo Quest, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
50 or 51. (60.) The Rescue Solo Quest, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
51 or 52. (61.) The Glacial Gate, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
52 or 53. (62.) The Deadly Depths, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
53 or 54. (63.) The Frozen Path, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
54 or 55. (64.) The Halls of Kelvinos, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
55 or 56. (65.) The Search for the Scepter, Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
56 or 57. (66.) The Heart of Ice Double Quest (part A), Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror
57 or 58. (67.) The Heart of Ice Double Quest (Part B), Barbarian Quest Book The Frozen Horror

Elf Quest Pack 10 quests
59. (48 or 49.) The Avenger Returns Solo Quest, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
60. (49 or 50.) On Sacred Ground Solo Quest, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
61. (50 or 51.) Terrellia's Maze Solo Quest, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
62. (51 or 52.) The Elven Prospector, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
63. (52 or 53.) The Alchemist's Laboratory, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
64. (53 or 54.) Tormuk's Guests, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
65. (54 or 55.) Gliness Fen, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
66. (55 or 56.) The Gathering Storm, Elf Quest Book The Mage of the Mirror
67. (56 or 57.) Hidden Realms Double Quest (part A), Elf Quest The Mage of the Mirror
68. (57 or 58.) Hidden realms Double Quest (part B), Elf Quest The Mage of the Mirror

Personally I put Frozen Horror after Wizards of Morcar, then Mage of the Mirror, then Dark Company.

All of the 69 quests in the original official HeroQuest game products (including both the Maze and the Trial) are above but what about the other published quests not found in game products, but in other sources such as White Dwarf Magazine, the Corgi HeroQuest novels, the Marvel Winter Special Hazards Pack, Adventure Unlimited Magazine or Dragão Brasil Magazine?
Should we include them and if so where do they best fit?
I feel like the Winter Special, the HeroQuest novels and the White Dwarf article quests are official HeroQuest Products so should be included. The other magazines have no official ties to Hasbro, Milton Bradley or Games Workshop so I feel are more akin to fan-made material rather than official quests despite being published in magazines.

(70?) Revenge of the Weather-Man, in HeroQuest: A Marvel Winter Special (1991)
strictly in publication order it could go after or before WoM or Dark Company, but where would it best fit?
It is very similar in theme to Wizards of Morcar ( basically an evil wizard hunt) so easily could be included before, in the middle somewhere, or placed after WoM.

(71?) The Halls of Durrag-Dol, in White Dwarf Magazine issue 134 (1991)
An argument can be made for this to be a final quest because it mentions the fall of Morcar, alternatively the other quests could be Morcar's return so it could be placed anywhere. Gives the option to play a Dwarf Slayer character.

(72,73?) The Eyes of Chaos (Double Quest) in White Dwarf Magazine issue 145 (1992)
Makes the most sense to be played after Against the Ogre Horde as it is mentioned.

(74?) Running the Gauntlet, Wizard Solo Quest, in HeroQuest: The Screaming Spectre (1992)
A good fit for this wizard solo might be right before Wizards of Morcar to emulate the solo quests early in the Barbarian and Elf Quest packs, but it does mention crossing the Sea of Claws so perhaps it fits best before or after the Barbarian Quest pack?

(75?) A Growl of Thunder, Barbarian Solo Quest, HeroQuest: The Tyrant's Tomb (1993)
Seems like this homecoming to the Barbarian's homeland (basically a revenge Quest) isn't nearly as momentous as the Barbarian Quest pack, where it seemed like he hadn't been home in a long time and his return was celebrated. Makes sense to place this sometime after the Barbarian quest pack especially due to the events mentioned in the quest intro. Also the publication date of 1993 (after the Barbarian tFH) makes this the last published quest of the original HeroQuest game. Seems strange to put this right after the Barbarian Quest Pack though (two home-farings back to back?), so would make more sense with some time between, say after Mage of the Mirror or Dark Company if those are placed after the Frozen Horror. Alternatively this could be an early homecoming in the Barbarian's career but after some adventuring in other lands, so right after the Quest Book for the game system might work.

[j_dean80]

I will add that the A Growl of Thunder ending, places the Barbarian as the new tribe chief. His adventuring days are over at that point, so it makes sense as last.

[Kurgan]

The Japanese quests to me are more canon than the fanzine quests, after all, they were part of an official MB release, even if most of us have been playing the translated versions!

[iKarith]

you did see the pinned thread on quest order above didn't you?
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=110
Your questions have been asked and answered repeatedly.

I didn't, because I didn't see it pinned there, as I looked through the first three pages of topics. Even after you told me it was there I looked for it and didn't see it. Only when I actually did a text search to highlight it did it suddenly jump right out at me. If it was a Fimir it would have clubbed me over the head and run off with my fiancée by now.

I figured it had been asked, multiple times, but I've given up trying to use the Inn's search function. I did not mean to re-ask something answered in a sticky.

Many people do include homebrew quests in their lists, I prefer just the English language official published quests found in the Milton Bradley/Games Workshop games and expansions, the Marvel winter special and the White Dwarf magazines published by Games Workshop, and the official HeroQuest paperback novels published by Corgi (Games Workshop)
Foreign language quests can sometimes be very different or completely different in the case of the Japanese version of the game.
There are other quests found in other publications that do not have any official ties to Games Workshop or Milton Bradley. I don't include any of those or anything not made by the makers of HQ (Milton Bradley and Games Workshop.)

Obviously you include ALL THE THINGS that are official. Maybe you decide on a version for some. I'm not certain if the Japanese quests replace the standard 14 for them or are added, for example. If they are an alternative to, maybe you choose to do them instead of either the North American or British base quests.

Then you do whatever else you want to. Your suggested order—Elf Quest first, then Barbarian, ending with The Dark Company. The stuff made in tie-in material (which I think would include stuff in White Dwarf) seems like it slots in wherever the quests seem to go.

Thanks for taking the time to re-answer for me. I swear I checked for it, even after you said it was stickied and I didn't actually see it until I ctrl-f'd for the thread by name.

[j_dean80]

My daughter had gone through the Base Game and Kellar’s Keep, and then my boys started playing. So, we started going through the Japanese Game to help them catch up without repeating.

[Kurgan]

Re-Reading the closing text of the NA Game System quest book, it leaves it totally open to the player whether KK or ROTWL comes next. So I guess in that sense there is no "canonical order."

You could guess that ROTWL should happen after KK because you get a reward at the end of the latter one, but a reward could be thought of as cash to spend for the next quest pack OR it could just be seen as points to "retire on" I suppose. Both major territories got quest packs after these... (EQP/BQP for NA, ATOH and WOM for EU... dark company was a pack in with that advanced edition of the GS over there, not to be confused with AHQ).