What to do when your players keep dying

[Ketran]

I'm playing a spirited campaign at the moment with my friends, but we're running into a repeat issue, namely; they keep dying. As per the rules, when they die they lose their belongings and create a new character to pick up in the next game. However, they are dying so much, that they are essentially making zero progress with upgrading equipment and retaining treasure and artifacts, even if the quest is beaten by 1 very battered remaining player. We are now at a point where the game has become so difficult that their vanilla stats just aren't cutting it. This isn't helped by the fact there are just 4 of us, and I'm relying on the HeroQuest app to play the role of GM, which if you haven't done before, is a nightmare; it's sadistic as hell and only cares about winning, rather than delivering a fun experience. We have replayed quests but it turns into a bit of a slog, and since they're all new to the game, has become repetitive.

I just wanted to know if anyone has some advice on how to go about this. First solution would be to find a 5th player so I can GM and deliver something that's actually fun, but we just don't know anyone else at the moment. I should note, that I am using the newer version of HeroQuest.

[manaknight14]

A hero who dies is not necessarily supposed to lose all their gear. It drops on the square where the hero died and can be retrieved by one of the other heroes, who can give it "back" to the new character at the start of the next quest. The gear is only supposed to be lost forever at the start of the GM's turn, and only if it is in a place where no other heroes can see it. If you are following this rule correctly and heroes are still losing their gear all the time, it sounds like your group is splitting up too much... which might also explain why they are always dying.

[SirRick]

I think a monster has to actually claim the gear with no heroes in sight. So the equipment should be safe as long as no monsters are around. Typically the only way that happens is if the heroes split up. If fellow heroes pick up the gear we typically divide it up among the survivors and give the new hero the left overs. You could get an infinite number of Broadswords this way, if the Barbarian keeps dying, but I feel a lot of Zargons would put a stop to this to encourage the heroes to actually try and work together to survive. You could say Mentor only had one broadsword to give the party and he doesn’t have any more.

For example if you have Borin’s Armor, you are much more motivated to stay alive. Otherwise the Dwarf or Elf (who you noticed were hungrily eyeing up your fancy armor) will snatch it up when you die.

[Kurgan]

There are multiple ways to end a quest, officially... besides victory for the heroes (or even Total Party Kill of the heroes by the Evil Wizard player). The survivor(s) can exit the quest through the entrance door, or flee back down the spiral staircase...

I'm playing a spirited campaign at the moment with my friends, but we're running into a repeat issue, namely; they keep dying. As per the rules, when they die they lose their belongings and create a new character to pick up in the next game. However, they are dying so much, that they are essentially making zero progress with upgrading equipment and retaining treasure and artifacts, even if the quest is beaten by 1 very battered remaining player. We are now at a point where the game has become so difficult that their vanilla stats just aren't cutting it. This isn't helped by the fact there are just 4 of us, and I'm relying on the HeroQuest app to play the role of GM, which if you haven't done before, is a nightmare; it's sadistic as hell and only cares about winning, rather than delivering a fun experience. We have replayed quests but it turns into a bit of a slog, and since they're all new to the game, has become repetitive.

I just wanted to know if anyone has some advice on how to go about this. First solution would be to find a 5th player so I can GM and deliver something that's actually fun, but we just don't know anyone else at the moment. I should note, that I am using the newer version of HeroQuest.

First I have to ask, what quests are you playing? Most quests are not so difficult that the party will die repeatedly (yes, individual heroes may die, but it shouldn't always just be one guy barely alive at the end).

Frozen Horror, Mage of the Mirror... the difficulty on those quests is EXTREME as written. If you are playing these, I recommend that either Zargon go in beforehand and make edits (like removing 1/3rd to to 1/2 of the monsters, probably same with the traps) OR adding many more opportunities to find healing potions and gold (to buy healing potions and/or mercenaries). Of course the latter option will mean the sessions will double, or even quadruple in length, if players are okay with that (multiple sessions may be necessary to finish a single quest).

Or what rule set are you using? The NA/Remake rules allow for "death saves." Here is how they are intended to work by the modern designers (others have their own traditions):

In the NA/Remake rules, a failed quest is meant to be replayed, with Zargon remixing it. Of course HOW he chooses to remix it is up to him (First Light's booklet suggests possibly making it easier the second time such as by removing some monsters or adding additional healing potions, if I recall correctly). The implication of the text is also that lost Artifacts can be found again.

Any hero who reaches zero BP (can't go negative) is "dying" rather than instantly dead. If they have ANY healing potion (or free action healing item) that can be used immediately to bring them above zero, and "alive" again. OR, if they have any unused healing spell (or equivalent artifact) and they haven't used an action yet on their turn, they immediately use that and come back to life. Some debate this latter one saying it should mean that on Zargon's turn the hero gets no action so they can't use this as a death save. However Avalon Hill interprets it differently... most hero deaths WILL occur on Zargon's turn, so it makes sense to simply allow the healing spell to be used, regardless. The intended situations in which this form of save CANNOT be used (in AH's estimation) is when let's say the Hero searches for treasure, triggers a Wandering Monster (or furniture trap or Hazard) and then takes damage from the attack, putting them to zero BP.

Much more rarely, a hero loses all mind points and goes to zero. This is handled differently in different quest packs. The EU general rule was that they are "dead" but in every official quest (other than in Kellar's Keep) it means they are simply "unconscious" and removed from the quest (apparently with all their gear too?) and are "alive" again on the next quest (I guess if all the other heroes die, they don't have to be swapped out for a new character in the next quest? as always Zargon/Morcar can change anything I'm just talking about the rules as written). In the NA/remake rules this has been changed. The only quest book in which zero mind points equals "unconscious" is Return of the Witch Lord. All the rest (except Spirit Queen's Torment which doesn't explain it, but AH has introduces it now as a general rule meant to apply to ALL quests unless the particular book or quest notes say otherwise) instead make them "In Shock" which means they are reduced to rolling 1 red die for movement, 1 combat die for attack and 2 for defense, regardless of what gear they have (but spells can temporarily boost this). "Shock" goes away the moment the character takes any Mind Point restoring potion. In other words, they don't have to use it immediately at the moment they go into shock, it can be applied later (see "Into the Northlands" rule clarifications for more detail).

Yes, a Dead Hero drops their gear. In the EU edition a monster has to physically enter the corridor/room where the hero died before the heroes in order to "claim" the lost gear, until then it is ready for the taking of any hero. The intention via AH's notes, as explained in the First Light rulebook, are that if the Hero dies alone in a room/corridor (even if no monsters visibly on the board), it is presumed that all their gear is stolen by the monsters, and removed from the quest. It is "gone forever," EXCEPT...

The rules also state that any ARTIFACTS are never truly lost, but that Zargon makes them available early in the next quest as a special treasure. It doesn't say in the current quest, but you could interpret that to mean the "next quest" could also be the remix of the quest. Some debate this as it gives the example of certain artifacts being required ("required" for a future quest, or "required" as a condition of victory?), which means some argue that this means ONLY those required for future adventures should be found again, but others lost forever in this manner. I disagree, I think the intention was to make that lost (stolen by monsters when the hero died) artifact can be found in a future quest. It can be as simple as the first treasure search in the next quest gets the artifact instead of (or in addition to) the top Treasure deck card. But Zargon can be a little more creative (see "Into the Northlands" notes) like putting it in a new treasure chest guarded by some powerful monsters that weren't previously in that quest. Make it fun!

A dead hero can be brought back to life with the Elixir of Life (which doesn't exist in the EU, except in "the Dark Company"). The intention of this item was probably originally that it would bring a hero back who died within the same quest, because normally if a hero dies, it's "too late" to administer a healing potion to them or cast a healing spell on them on the next turn (they will have already died). So this is the save. The NA rules don't precisely say this however so in theory you could use it many quests later to have two Barbarians at once (5 heroes!). However First Light implies it must be administered to a dead hero, implying you have to use it next to the square where they died, within the same adventure where they died. They presumably come back with no gear, because that gear was taken either by the heroes or stolen (lost) to monsters if they died alone. Some oversight by Zargon on this of course. In Dark Company under the EU rules, a dead hero comes back to life (presumably only one who died within the Dark Company adventure, though it doesn't specifically restrict it to someone who died on a past quest) but with only 1 BP left.

If a hero who dies was controlling mercenaries and/or animal companions, he can continue playing with those allies if he chooses (though to be fair, some can't complete the quest on their own... regular mercs can open doors but of the animals only the Raptor can open them). Only few allies can search for things so if the goal is finding something that could prove difficult.

Jungles of Delthrak introduces a new idea which COULD be retroactively be applied to other adventures. You get to "administer" a potion to an adjacent ally (so long as neither of you is adjacent to a monster). This is because they restrict (ATOH does something similar) animal companions and Ogre Mercenaries from being able to carry Equipment, Artifacts, or Potions... but you could move next to them and feed them a potion that immediately would take effect, including a healing potion.

Anyway, JoD proposes some new modes, difficulty levels if you will... first you can play it the old NA way. OR you can use the Heroic method... no more death saves (characters who go to 0 BP are "incapacitated" instead) at the last minute, instead a hero or ally at zero BP immediately gets a skull token and drops their equipment. You get one "round" (until that character's next turn, basically, in the round of turns) to be healed either by a spell or by an "administered" potion. If they don't get that save, then they die for real and are removed (only the Elixir of Life could bring them back at that point, or they get replaced in the next quest if a hero or a new companion or mercenary is hired in the case of the other type at "full price").

OR you can use the "story" method whereby it's the same as Heroic but there's no skull tile round thing, instead the downed hero stays down until he's saved OR if all the monsters on the board are destroyed (so Zargon's turn he does nothing, then all of the incapacitated heroes/allies get 1 BP back and are back in the game. If all the group is incapacitated, then it's the same as a TPK and Zargon "wins."

Spirit Queen's Torment has its own built in suggestion... if the Bard character (assuming he isn't already in the quest party) is free, then the first hero who "dies" gets replaced by the Bard. So the player takes control of that hero at least for the remainder of that quest, then follow the normal rules (or keep him if he likes that character).

At GenCon last year when we were playing our own friendly game, Doug Hopkins made another suggestion. If one of the hero players dies early and he has no character to control, to keep the fun going, he just let them re-enter the same quest immediately with a Mercenary or Animal Companion character (and presumably if they died again he'd do it again, as long as he had figures to hand out).

The other thing is, maybe the heroes just need to "get good." They should keep the party together, and work together. Share gear, share gold to buy what they need (start with armor, usually, then progress to better weapons), use potions wisely. Search a room for traps first before treasure. Don't activate rooms before you clear the monsters out of the previous one. Block those doors! It won't always work, but there's something to be said for learning better tactics (and Zargon will adapt to keep the challenge going).

Thanks for reading and good luck!