EQP: The Mage of the Mirror Remake Main Thread!

[HispaZargon]

Thanks for the pictures, Kurgan. My answers below:

So we're seeing spoilers for all the quest book pages now (thanks again SteveRS2000!) and I'm looking for differences... (other than the obvious world substitutions Fimir/Abomination, Dread/Chaos, etc)

Is there any NEW reference in the questbook which could link more its story with the story behind the letter included in Rogue Heir of Elethorn expansion?

As HispaZargon pointed out, Potion of Restoration is now "Potion of Superior Restoration" as suggested by fans on Ye Olde Inn all those years ago!

Yeah, that's of course an old topic, but not sure if the new name was already suggested here in the Inn in the past. Please, can you confirm it?

Quest 4 "Moonsilver" (original) has been renamed to "Lunarium" (remake). I guess that must have been too close to something in GamesWorkshop's Warhammer lore?

Interesting... but I think in this case the old name was not linked to any GW lore. I think Hasbro has just thought the name "Lunarium" fits better. Quest 5 note A should had been also fixed, according to the new name.

Quest 3 removes the word "captured." Not sure what difference that makes since the next sentence still promises them their "Freedom" if they can kill you.

Agree, I don't understand the change.

Two sentences are reworded. Terrellia is called "the Queen" in the last sentence instead of by name. You are said to pass the test "you must find..." rather than "you will only pass the test if you find...."
Note E is reworded slightly but conveys the same meaning.

Again, I don't understand this last change... I think the classic text was more clear about the quest objective.

Mentor's introduction is a big hard to read in the photo, but it removes the reference to Millandriell being 5 years old and simply describes her as one "who is but a child." Looking at higher quality pictures has shown me that while the first sentence was changed to call Millandriell the princess "but a child" there is another reference to her being five years old later, just being a slight re-wording of the original text that doesn't change the meaning.

Then, not a real change, ok.

Instead of "The Empire" it's called "The Realm" and this seems to be the new canonical form (rather than "the Kingdom" as one might have assumed, since it's the King now instead of "The Emperor").

I was afraid about this important point... the classic expansion defined a clear difference between the Elven Kingdom and the Empire, which I guess meant they where different administrations. However, if now both administrations are named as "Realms", I think could be more difficult in the remake to think that they are different administrations, even could be thought they are the same thing.

I hope they have fixed the rest of the texts accordingly, if not I think the lore and story would look more vague than the classic one. Pending To Be Checked.

Page 7, introducing the quests, still reads:

The first three quests are solo adventures, designed for play by an Elf alone. These can be used as an introduction to HeroQuest for a new player or as fun quests to play when only two players are available. Also, if a new Elf is to join a party of experienced characters, these three quests allow the Elf to catch up with the other heroes by gaining gold, equipment and magical items.

I think there is no change from the original text here.

Thinking about the new Ogre design... with his mowhawk haircut and single bladed axe, he closely resembles the ATOH "Ogre Chieftain" more than the "Ogre Warrior (who is balding with long hair and a log type club with a single spike driven through it). Also interesting that the Chieftain originally had 4 BP and 6 defend dice but was otherwise the same as the remake style EQP Ogre.

About Ogre miniatures... am I the only one who think they are not enough big if we compare them with a Dread Warrior miniature??

Found another little nugget... thanks again to SteveRS2000...

YES, you can use mercenaries in the group quests of EQP. So I assume when the Companion App adds this pack, that will be an option there.

Great... this is a vey good addon to the classic quest book. It is more than just a clarification, it is a new rule for this remake, since both classic and remake Frozen Horror quest books only allowed hiring its mercenaries in the group quests from such quest pack. Fortunatelly, now the mercs hiring has been also extended to Mage of the Mirror group quets, which will help to make them less difficult for the Heroes, good news. I fully agree with the addon, otherwise would not make too much sense (mercs would only want to go to cold places and not to hot elven realms?? are they so foul? )

Another new change inside the quest book...

Not sure what to think about the new "Elven Riches" general rule which allow finding 200 gold coins in rooms with treasure chests without any specific reward... for me is a bad solution, it looks as a clear vague patch. I think would be easier to check the quest book and place a quest note describing the specific reward inside the chest to fix it.

Quest 1 changes the name of the heirloom weapon from "The Avenger" to "The Sovereign Sword." I guess to make it more obvious that they're talking about a weapon and not a person? I prefer the old name.

Probably you are right and that's the reason why they changed it. I honestly see better the new one, its name reinforces the storytelling. Moreover, "Avenger" seems to fit better with the name of an evil weapon, not an expected name for an (I guess) elven one.

Treasure Chest E is no longer empty. It now gives you the Elven Bracers, hooray!

The Elven Chain Mail Armor is still the reward for completing Quest 1, but it now says it can be combined with a helmet and/or shield but the mention of not being usable by the Wizard is removed. Is it an Elf exclusive item, or is this meaning the Wizard finally gets some better armor (give it to him in the group quest)??

Please, do you have pictures of Quest 1 notes D and E or their full texts?

Quest 2 gives you another 200 gold coins in the final room (!). No special resolution to the ending though, still a boring slog back to the door.

Are you refering to room D chest?

Re-animation and Twist Wood are still a bit vague and open to interpretation.

Surely... do we know any relevant change in quest book which could affect to the use of Re-animation Dread Spell? In other words... Quest 6 room C and Quest 9 room F still include only non undead monsters as the classic maps?

[Kurgan]

Still too soon for a companion app update...

I have yet to see anything relating to the Rogue Heir material in this new book. I think they certainly could have if they wished, but maybe they were reluctant to imply they were requiring people to buy that figure to be able to enjoy this adventure? (thankfully both are in retail so there should be no shortage this time!) So no clarifications as to what happens if you try to substitute this hero for the Elf. I imagine the Companion App won't let us use anyone but the "proper" Elf (in three different looks) for the solo quests. No telling what the prelude quest would be, but it seems it would be done for promotional reasons rather than giving us something that we wouldn't otherwise get in the rules as written (as "Into the Northlands" did for the Frozen Horror). Instead it seems the fixes are baked into the cake in the box, so to speak and this makes it easier for people who buy it but don't hang around much online looking for new content to get started without issue.

As HispaZargon pointed out, Potion of Restoration is now "Potion of Superior Restoration" as suggested by fans on Ye Olde Inn all those years ago!

Yeah, that's of course an old topic, but not sure if the new name was already suggested here in the Inn in the past. Please, can you confirm it?

Sjeng's homebrew "Potions Deck" on the Inn pages renders it thus (while Phoenix's rendering of EQP does not alter it from the original title).

Interesting... but I think in this case the old name was not linked to any GW lore. I think Hasbro has just thought the name "Lunarium" fits better. Quest 5 note A should had been also fixed, according to the new name.

I'd like to see scans of Quest 5 (and 7, 8, 9 & 10 while we're at it) but that makes sense too.

Agree, I don't understand the change.

The remake seems to have an aversion to references to slavery (which existed in the classic game), though some of that is understandable ("Slaves to Darkness" was a tagline attached to GWS's official Chaos Warrior lore in WHF). Then again, if they are prisoners that are forced to fight (or given an "opportunity at freedom" suggesting slavery) I'm not sure that really sanitizes it enough if that was the thinking. How "good" is Queen Terrellia supposed to be? The game is intended for age 14 and up, surely they can handle a little grittiness in their fantasy, but I guess that's outside the scope of these forums. An odd stylistic adjustment.

Again, I don't understand this last change... I think the classic text was more clear about the quest objective.

But we do see that this time they felt more free to make the changes before release, whereas with Frozen Horror it seems they had no idea changes were expected/demanded until it was too late, or were dead set on preserving the original text before anything else (maybe a combination of the two). The latter of course was what fans were wanting with the "classic" parts that sold well that had a high nostalgic value (game system, kellar's keep, return of the witch lord) whereas EQP and BQP were unknown quantities that most people never had a chance to play but many wistfully were curious about owning that they never had a chance to back in the day...

I think there is no change from the original text here.

I know, I was just emphasizing this as we see how they have tailored the solo quests to be more accessible for "new" players since they are not suddenly saying they are special challenges for veteran elves who are already loaded up with gear. Letting the Elf get two Elven Artifacts in the first quest makes him much more durable, and an extra 200 gold in a few places won't go to waste (though the huge battles I remember required to free some of those treasure chests would seem to be worth much more than a mere 200! but at least that's the price the first hero gets for searching, and potentially another could get the 300 gold card that this pack adds to the deck, or a potion in the best case scenario, or maybe one of the smaller rewards).

About Ogre miniatures... am I the only one who think they are not enough big if we compare them with a Dread Warrior miniature??

They are big and bulky in muscle, rather than armor. I agree they don't seem very large and intimidating despite their stats, which was a weakness of the originals too. I think the Ogres from Reaper Bones series are much better on that front. I also wish they were dark blue instead of generic gray!

Great... this is a vey good addon to the classic quest book. It is more than just a clarification, it is a new rule for this remake, since both classic and remake Frozen Horror quest books only allowed hiring its mercenaries in the group quests from such quest pack. Fortunately, now the mercs hiring has been also extended to Mage of the Mirror group quests, which will help to make them less difficult for the Heroes, good news. I fully agree with the addon, otherwise would not make too much sense (mercs would only want to go to cold places and not to hot elven realms?? are they so foul? )

Yes. I would think it would be cool to also add some of the extra elf miniatures as hirelings that could be used as well, but there are just no prices for them. I guess you could say the archer costs the same as a crossbowman and the swordsman the same as a human swordsman, the lesser defense is made up for with more body/movement. Hire two of each if you can afford it...

Not sure what to think about the new "Elven Riches" general rule which allow finding 200 gold coins in rooms with treasure chests without any specific reward... for me is a bad solution, it looks as a clear vague patch. I think would be easier to check the quest book and place a quest note describing the specific reward inside the chest to fix it.

Yeah it's like they didn't trust themselves to proofread it enough before release. Then again maybe they were thinking not to step on the toes of the few people who played these quests back in the day and had homebrewed their own items into the unmarked chests ("this is the one that has two heroic brews inside!") but yes, it seems a little lazy, at least it is something! Gold in these quests will be used to purchase mercenaries and potions to survive since equipment will be maxed out already.

Probably you are right and that's the reason why they changed it. I honestly see better the new one, its name reinforces the storytelling. Moreover, "Avenger" seems to fit better with the name of an evil weapon, not an expected name for an (I guess) elven one.

To me the old storyline (more visible in the drafts, spoilers there) was here lost. Sinestra's civil war has cost the lives of many elves including family of Terellia herself (the attendants were originally also her sisters). So "The Avenger" is the sword that will help the defeat of the evil sister of Terellia (in my homebrew I allow the heroes limited use of this special sword, but that's me). It is a bloody civil war and yes, it makes the elves seem less wise and benevolent to be seeking revenge, and maybe too dark for a kid's game in their view (but they call it "14+" anyway because of pointy swords, we know!). But it sounds like a generic fantasy name, maybe they were worried Disney might get upset with Hasbro having Avenger toys and this isn't it (a bit like Hulk Hogan having to have a credit next to his name acknowledging Marvel Comics even though his character has nothing to do with the incredible green giant other than getting strong and angry!).

Please, do you have pictures of Quest 1 notes D and E or their full texts?

I will attach below!

Are you referring to room D chest?

Yes. In the original "dark" storyline that the designers felt this ending for Quest 2 was too tragic and mean for the target young audience, there was a chest (1 red die movement) that held the remains of the two deceased elf sisters (to be returned for burial "on sacred ground"). Now it has been changed to the happy ending of the live attendants being escorted to safety... though due to linear gameplay, the dungeon should be empty by this point, and they just float invisibly (I guess) near the Elf until he or she makes it back to the door unopposed (clever Zargon's use the homebrew Evil Wizard deck to chip away at his health, but what about the attendants, they are safe on his shoulders?).

Surely... do we know any relevant change in quest book which could affect to the use of Re-animation Dread Spell? In other words... Quest 6 room C and Quest 9 room F
still include only non undead monsters as the classic maps?

I would like to see those other quests, but the issue seems to be that the bad guy needs to rush to any room in which undead monsters previously died to use the spell OR ELSE (possibly overpowered) it magically summons ALL the undead previously defeated from that quest to the current room (which means you won't have enough figures unless you also own Return of the Witch Lord). I think in the case of Tormuk (Quest 6), the best thing he can do under interpretation #1 is to use three turns of movement to reach room A (it will take five to reach the tomb room. Monster layout has not changed in the remake edition of this quest. Possible, but Zargon should plan his strategy!

SPOILERS below:

[Kurgan]

Is it just me or has Hasbro Customer Care removed the old Elf Quest pack pdf book entirely from their page?

SPOILERIFIC UPDATES!!!!

Having now seen Quest 5, I note no changes other than Lunarium replacing Moonsilver in all references.


I am pleased to announce that Quest 7 puts a note "H" to the previously unmarked chest (500 gold coins)! Another errata corrected (and better than 200 "Elven Riches" default fix).

Phoenix actually made an error here by putting in an extra goblin instead of the Orc. The remake doesn't change the monster placement from '92!

Quest 8 refers to "the princess" in the intro text instead of Millandriell one time, no change in meaning.
Yes, note D refers to a "bag" of Heroic Brew... this oddity was present in the original! (another place where Phoenix made an editorial change to "bottle").

Comparing the quests drew my attention to an error in Phoenix's version of this quest, he puts in a Mummy on the edge that should be a skeleton. There is no change in monster placement in the remake from the '92 original!

Quests 9 & 10 (Double Quest) was renamed from "Hidden Realms" (original) to "Silvermane's Lair" (!!)
The parchment texts adds "her private den known as Silvermane's lair." Slight re-wording to not keep saying "Millandriell" over and over (instead she's "the princess" or "Princes Mirandriell," etc) no change in meaning otherwise. The last sentence refers to "the child and the archmage." It's like someone didn't like re-typing those names over and over again...

I don't see the usual text saying that once Sinestra is killed and Mirandriell rescued that the quest is over and to turn to the conclusion page... unless that text is found elsewhere. I guess without that someone might wonder if they have to escape or have more time to explore and gain more treasure? [Edit: I was wrong about this, see the attached image! ]


Thanks again to SteveRS2000 in the UK for the scans on HeroQuestFans Discord! (in the spoilerific #zargon-morcar-gm sub channel).

[Markus Darwath]

So there was another thread regarding the original rules about Heroes not being able to sneak through an ogre's square, and debate whether this meant 'Veil of Mist' would also not work against them. I'm noting no reference to this ability of the Ogre in the quest book, and wondering if this is a change from the original EQP or if that old rule was from Against the Ogre Hoard?

I'm not completely on board with the fact they retained the elongated bases for the giant wolves. All the other re-release minis switched to the multi-game "standard" round bases, including the now significantly larger Frozen Horror figure. But I guess my issue with it stems mainly from the fact that I've been using my old HQ minis for D&D, and plan to continue that with the new ones (as well as revisiting HQ as it's own game.)

[Kurgan]

So to summarize the errata/improvements in this edition:

Elf can get the Elven Bracers very early (Quest 1) and actually use them which is a big help (+2 BP and 1 MP). The instructions for the Elven Chain Mail are a bit odd. Either only the Elf can use it (he was going to use it anyway, why would he not? Someone else can use Borin's Armor which they have presumably brought in from playing the Game System) or else any hero can use it which is a boost to the Wizard if Zargon chooses to interpret it that way (he can hand it over in Quest 4)!

The Elf can get an extra 200 gold in Quest 2 which can go toward a purchase to begin quest 3.

Mercenaries (up to 12 of them!) can be hired Quests 4-9 taken from "the Frozen Horror" which is a big help. Since every treasure deck has an extra 300 gold ("treasure hoard") above what was included in the default deck, that can help since hiring that many can be expensive, but if anyone retained the Warhorn of Command from "Into the Northlands" that gives the retention discount at least for the one who holds it.

An extra 500 gold is possible in Quest 7, which will be put to good use!

It seems also the "Elven Riches" rule clarification was just a placeholder anyway, because all of the previously "empty" treasure chests and plain unmarked chests from the original version have been given something inside them in the notes. That or they were really afraid they might have missed one. I appreciate the effort!

I was a little disappointed there was no special note saying that the final Ogre had 10 BP or that there were some undead a little closer to Sinestra or Tormuk to "reanimate" but still, it feels much more polished and complete than the one from thirty years ago.

[Kurgan]

So there was another thread regarding the original rules about Heroes not being able to sneak through an ogre's square, and debate whether this meant 'Veil of Mist' would also not work against them. I'm noting no reference to this ability of the Ogre in the quest book, and wondering if this is a change from the original EQP or if that old rule was from Against the Ogre Hoard?

It was entirely from the ATOH expansion and being an EU exclusive, the designers of EQP/BQP (and the cancelled WQP/DQP) basically assumed their customers in the US wouldn't even know it existed. Yeah, good point about there being no mention of this rule, so no "debate" really except among those who wish to homebrew it. So all monsters can be bypassed through these magical/skill abilities, so long as you have sufficient movement to do so!

I'm not completely on board with the fact they retained the elongated bases for the giant wolves. All the other re-release minis switched to the multi-game "standard" round bases, including the now significantly larger Frozen Horror figure. But I guess my issue with it stems mainly from the fact that I've been using my old HQ minis for D&D, and
plan to continue that with the new ones (as well as revisiting HQ as it's own game.)

They wanted to have "big monsters" that took up more than one square, so that's what we got, I guess. Making the Frozen Horror huge was an odd choice, considering the movement mechanics completely ignore his new size (at least the old 2 square version really could surf his way down hallways with no issues). At least the Dreadnought from Space Crusade has a friend his own size again now equivalent in this dimension!

I guess big monsters are more of a threat because they have more range to hit the good guys, but their size also makes it harder for them to escape the reach of said good guys... and some people just like having bigger figures to paint!

I suppose you could customize your Giant wolves and clip off the big oval base in favor of a "standard size" round one (or trim the existing one?) and weight it or sticky it down so it is still balanced.

[Markus Darwath]

I like that finally, after the retail releases of the Game System and 3 other expansions, they actually included a space in the component tray to hold the counters after they're punched out. (I'm not including Hero expansions in my count, since they don't have any counters/tiles.)

I expect at some point I'm going to build myself a Hero Quest treasure chest with foamcore inserts to accommodate all the game components in one portable box. Tho I'll probably start with the inserts and use a plastic storage tote initially as the outer box.

[Markus Darwath]

I'm noting no reference to this ability of the Ogre in the quest book, and wondering if this is a change from the original EQP or if that old rule was from Against the Ogre Hoard?

It was entirely from the ATOH expansion and being an EU exclusive, the designers of EQP/BQP (and the cancelled WQP/DQP) basically assumed their customers in the US wouldn't even know it existed. Yeah, good point about there being no mention of this rule, so no "debate" really except among those who wish to homebrew it. So all monsters can be bypassed through these magical/skill abilities, so long as you have sufficient movement to do so!

Thanks for the answer!

I'm not completely on board with the fact they retained the elongated bases for the giant wolves.

I suppose you could customize your Giant wolves and clip off the big oval base in favor of a "standard size" round one (or trim the existing one?) and weight it or sticky it down so it is still balanced.

I've also recently purchase the D&D Creatures Campaign Case, which has a number of plastic disc counters for small/medium, large, and huge creatures along with a collection of static cling 'decals' of monster pictures. When I use the wolves for D&D I'll probably just poster tack them to a large (2x2) counter, rather than modify the figures.

(off topic, but I am giving serious thought to re-baseing all my Mansions of Madness figures onto standard bases instead of the clunky ones that come with the game.)

[Jabie]

Enquiring minds would like to know:

1) Is Summon Wolves no longer a chaos spell?
2) Does wolves still have ridiculous stats (6attack dice and 5 Body points!)
3) What are the rules for lycanthropy?
4) Are the four treasures still the same?

[Kurgan]

Jabie I'm pretty sure the Summon Wolves spell is still there for the bad guys (it is mentioned in the quest book notes), Giant Wolf stats are the same, as are the rules for
lycanthropy (werewolf curse).

Basically if a Hero is either zapped with the evil spell or takes damage from a Werewolf attack (only one a certain quest), then each turn he has to roll to see if he transforms (becoming a monster). If he does, then he drops his gear (with an "equipment tile") and moves as a Werewolf that turn (using the wolf headed tiles included, though you could use a plastic figure if they were available). By the time of his next turn he has transformed back, and has to roll again, etc. until cured (Wolfsbane Potion or Potion of Superior Restoration cures it). Presumably without that it will continue on to future quests...

I assume the 4 extra Treasure cards are the same, but as with Summon Wolves, they were left out of the pictures above I realize now... we saw some of those at GenCon and they were not changed, so I don't imagine any surprises here, but I'll see if Steve can post some screenshots soon!

Edit: Steve confirmed that Summon Wolves is identical to the old version.