EU Format Quest Book which needs a proof read and testing...

[Credulous]

Did you use Heroscribe for the maps?

I did and then export to PNG.

[Anderas]

Could you share them in Google Drive or Dropbox or the like? Then I'll see if I can run them through my simulator the next days.

Do you use EU stats or NA stats for the monsters where there is a difference?

[Credulous]

Could you share them in Google Drive or Dropbox or the like? Then I'll see if I can run them through my simulator the next days.

Do you use EU stats or NA stats for the monsters where there is a difference?

Currently working with FalconNL on EU format cards with American stats on them as no one (not even the mighty Sjeng!) seems to have done EU format monster cards with NA stats. This will include Ogre cards with the Phoenix BP stats (best balanced I think), and as per the read me at the bottom of the file if people demand it happy to do versions with the Ogre body point track if people would like that option as well.

The idea would then be as a player you have the choice on precise rule set you embrace but you can do so with a quest book and set of cards which are harmonised with your existing EU set, regardless of the route you go down.

The offer of play testing via automated means would be fantastic, thanks for the kind offer and happy to share. Presume it would be the .Xmls you would need?

[Anderas]

Yes exactly, the XML. I have a mix of EU and US format Monster cards, with US stats. They look like this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hC_5i7 ... p=drivesdk

But I think they are not complete yet.... The hobby problem. The more things you have unfinished, the more things you start in the hope of finishing at least one.

[Credulous]

Just sent you a PM with the XMLs

[Anderas]

Did you just reuse the files provided by Heroscribe and click on "EU" coloration?

For the font in the quest texts, it might be advisable to not put the Gaze on italic - the original Gaze is already italic enough.

The first three quests are solo quests, right? It might be a good idea to put that remark somewhere.
In the original quests, the remark was on top of the Headline in the Fluff text box.

Phoenix' adaptation of the Elf Quest Book proposes to give the elven bracers as reward for the first quest. Did you crosscheck with his version?
I ask, because the original quest book gave the Elf the "Elven Chain Mail Armor" instead. That one is giving you 2 extra defense dice. That is comparable with Borin's Armour.

I simulated the first quest with a result of 26 BP loss in average for a beginner elf. ("Your Group" I entered a beginner elf here)
A fully equipped elf would go through that quest with 5 BP loss.
Assumtions: 3 Wandering Monsters. Monsters in Room C attack first, before the hero can answer.
The healing spell of the Elf was not taken into account, also not if he wants to use Stone Skin or something.
So the reality will look a little bit rosier than this result table. Judging by the quest layout, you're supposed to die the first time, know the way the second time and win the second time by avoiding lots of monsters.

The other way is, that in some rules the potion can be taken the moment you die. So the elixir of life is maybe there for getting you back when you chose the wrong way?

Hero Group Name	....BP loss	....BP Loss total (with Mercs)	....Total Party Kill probability
Elf 5 DE, Battle Axe	....4.6	....4.6	....25.0
Elf 6 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....5.0	....5.0	....32.0
Elf 5 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....6.8	....6.8	....62.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword	....9.1	....9.1	....85.0
Elf Helmet, Shield, Crossbow & Longsword	....9.1	....9.1	....85.0
Elf Shield & Longsword	....12.2	....12.2	....96.0
Elf Shield	....20.9	....20.9	....100.0
Your Group	....27.6	....27.6	....100.0
Elf Beginner	....27.6	....27.6	....100.0

[Credulous]

Did you just reuse the files provided by Heroscribe and click on "EU" coloration?

No but if I'd known about them I would have done. #facepalm I retyped them from scratch which to be fair doesn't actually take that long, but certainly not as quick as that way! I'll definitely adopt that approach for the Frozen Horror....

For the font in the quest texts, it might be advisable to not put the Gaze on italic - the original Gaze is already italic enough.

Ok I'll check back to the original quest books but I thought I deduced italic was the better match but maybe not!

The first three quests are solo quests, right? It might be a good idea to put that remark somewhere.
In the original quests, the remark was on top of the Headline in the Fluff text box.

Yes I considered this but decided a note in the upfront summary was sufficient but given your feedback I'll reconsider - space is at a premium in the EU format but there probably is enough space to put this somewhere for the solo quests where there are less quest notes.

Phoenix' adaptation of the Elf Quest Book proposes to give the elven bracers as reward for the first quest. Did you crosscheck with his version?
I ask, because the original quest book gave the Elf the "Elven Chain Mail Armor" instead. That one is giving you 2 extra defense dice. That is comparable with Borin's Armour.

I did utilise Phoenix's as a major source. I understood this to be a correction of Phoenix's from the original due to that card not appearing in the original pack, so duplicated it

I simulated the first quest with a result of 26 BP loss in average for a beginner elf. ("Your Group" I entered a beginner elf here)
A fully equipped elf would go through that quest with 5 BP loss.
Assumtions: 3 Wandering Monsters. Monsters in Room C attack first, before the hero can answer.
The healing spell of the Elf was not taken into account, also not if he wants to use Stone Skin or something.
So the reality will look a little bit rosier than this result table. Judging by the quest layout, you're supposed to die the first time, know the way the second time and win the second time by avoiding lots of monsters.

The other way is, that in some rules the potion can be taken the moment you die. So the elixir of life is maybe there for getting you back when you chose the wrong way?

Hero Group Name	....BP loss	....BP Loss total (with Mercs)	....Total Party Kill probability
Elf 5 DE, Battle Axe	....4.6	....4.6	....25.0
Elf 6 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....5.0	....5.0	....32.0
Elf 5 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....6.8	....6.8	....62.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword	....9.1	....9.1	....85.0
Elf Helmet, Shield, Crossbow & Longsword	....9.1	....9.1	....85.0
Elf Shield & Longsword	....12.2	....12.2	....96.0
Elf Shield	....20.9	....20.9	....100.0
Your Group	....27.6	....27.6	....100.0
Elf Beginner	....27.6	....27.6	....100.0

Thanks - so about right for an experienced Elf then? Bear in mind the 5 (full BP) healing potions across the 10 quests as well.

I look forward to your next analysis....

[Anderas]

The US game system had a cardboard dashboard listing the equipment you could buy. Players were used to just note the equipment on their sheet instead of holding a card in their hand. So I think that the Elven Bracers were never mentioned in the Quest Book is an Error, but that the Elven Chain Mail was given without a card, was not an error. But that's just me.

Taking into account the healing spell he probably carries plus the Elixier of Life, Quest 1 is perfect for an Elf just with Shield and Longsword
If you don't want the Elf to lose the Elixier right away, she should have 5 Defense dice, Crossbow and Longsword.
But I fear that Quest 1 was written with a total beginner female Elf in mind, instead. It is written like that on page 9, Solo Quest.

By the way, I entered the Longsword to attack diagonally just like the original US version - in the EU there is no equipment card for a long sword in the english version, in the german version they renamed the "broad sword" into "Langschwert" which means "Long Sword" but kept the broad sword rules, no diagonal attack. Yes, translations into German are mostly bullshit. Many things are not at all translated but just changed (a title stays in english, but they choose a different title (!) ). But I digress.

Yes it would be good to mention the solo thing directly on the quest page, otherwise the mentioning is some pages away - probably already forgotten when you arrive at the quest part of the book.

Is it ok that you wrote "Mind or Points" as a headline on page 10?

By the way, I gave the beginner Elf 1 Halberdier for the first quest, and she survived ok then. Maybe that's the change to be done.

ok, let's move on to quest 2.
I calculate this time with 8 BP of healing: 4 from her spells, 4 from the quest book.
Wandering monster is taken 3 times, double Orc. Wow, those hurt! I guess after fighting one of those groups, the Hero will search only where she can be sure that there is something to find.

So I reduce the WM's to 2; 1x the wandering monster trap, 1x from treasure cards. All of the following is calculated with those.
The Elf in "Your Group" is with the protective armor of 2 additional dice from the first quest.

She finds a helmet in quest note B; which could be a hint that the three solo quests are actually meant to be played by a beginner elf. I say "wow", I guess you have to be really dedicated to try this several times.

The worst monsters are the Giant Wolves.
I use Move 9, Attack 6, Defense 3 (on Walrus), BP 5 and MP 1 for them, exactly like on the Wolf Card. (You didn't add a Quest Monster Chart at the end of the book, by the way)

The Elf from Quest 1, with 4 Defense dice, loses 7 BP each time she encounters a Wolf. Those are deadly! I imagine, the first Wolf is put to sleep, conserving 3BP.
In total, she will lose 25 BP. He has 6 + 4 + 4 from this quest, so he dies (92%). Or he conserved the Elixier of Life from Quest one, then he has 6+4+4+6, so he dies with 89%. I added more healings until she "just" died 44% of the time. For that you need 20 BP of healings in the quest . She brings 4 BP from her water spell set, 4 BP are already in the quest, so 12 BP healings more need to be hidden here and there.

In the second try, the Player might miss some of the more useless rooms and avoid the center room and the traps south of the center room. I re-simulated, it saves 5 BP of damage.
The additional helmet she finds also saves some few BP, but late, after the first wolf.

So, here we go. In the total party kill %, 8 BP of healings are already included!

Hero Group Name	....BP loss	....BP Loss total (with Mercs)	....Total Party Kill probability
Elf 5 DE, Battle Axe	....12.2	....12.2	....23.0
Elf 6 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....14.9	....14.9	....62.0
Elf 5 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....18.2	....18.2	....90.0
Your Group	....22.0	....22.0	....98.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword	....22.0	....22.0	....98.0
Elf Helmet, Shield, Crossbow & Longsword	....22.0	....22.0	....98.0
Elf Shield & Longsword	....26.5	....26.5	....100.0
Elf Shield	....45.5	....45.5	....100.0
Elf Beginner	....54.3	....54.3	....100.0

Well that looks bleak. Really deadly.

Just to see if it makes anything better, I added some mercenaries and reran the Quest with 1, 2, 3 Halberdiers. US Halberdiers with 2 Body Points.
Already the first is enough to really make the experience ok. Maybe that's a better way than to add healings everywhere, I don't know, your decision. I always prefer the Mercenaries because that allows Zargon to kill some good guys without raising the frustration too much; but many don't like them at all because they change the style of playing Heroquest.

Are Mercs available in the EQP?
"Your Group" here has 1 Halberdier and the +2 dice protection from the first quest

Hero Group Name	....BP loss	....BP Loss total (with Mercs)	....Total Party Kill probability
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword, 3 halberd	....2.4	....8.4	....0.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword, 2 halberd	....5.2	....9.2	....0.0
Your Group	....9.0	....11.0	....2.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword, 1 halberd	....9.1	....11.1	....2.0
Elf 5 DE, Battle Axe	....14.0	....14.0	....50.0
Elf 6 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....16.7	....16.7	....79.0
Elf 5 DE, Crossbow & Longsword	....20.6	....20.6	....96.0
Elf Helmet, Shield & Longsword	....25.3	....25.3	....100.0
Elf Helmet, Shield, Crossbow & Longsword	....25.3	....25.3	....100.0
Elf Shield & Longsword	....30.9	....30.9	....100.0
Elf Shield	....52.4	....52.4	....100.0
Elf Beginner	....63.4	....63.4	....100.0

[Daedalus]

I love your difficulty model presentations, Anderas! I hope the newly discovered Wizard and Dwarf Quest Packs are run through similarly so alternate fixes can be presented alongside or as part of an appendix with advice on how to adjust the originals.

[Kurgan]

LOL about the German translation strategy of these things. I've gotta admit "Die Claymore Saga" is a B.A. retitle of "Battlemasters."

Maybe a full re-translation from German to English of all HQ should happen just to highlight that "creativity"? I'd read it! And here I thought the Italian version was cool for naming Sir Ragnar "Sir Manfred." (one might be his first or last name perhaps).

If past precedent is anything I expect they will be even harder than the EQP, possibly harder than the BQP! You might think the Wizard pack would be easy since the Wizard is weaker, but think of how difficult Wizards of Morcar was, and if it was the last (or second to the last) to be released, they probably assumed the heroes were all very well equipped, heavy-laden with gold, and getting bored, needing an extra "challenge" I bet! Dwarf I expect would be very hard as well since he's the #2 combat monster of the heroes' team, even if they planned to have little magic in there, combat and traps can be tough (even if you have disarming ability, can't get 'em all).

If DQP is only half finished it might only be half as tough as the others, but only for that reason!

The Wizard Solo quest in the Dave Morris novel (Screaming Spectre) was pathetically easy (if you get lucky you can win in just three rooms). Interestingly his take on it (EU rules) was to allow the Wizard to rescue a Barbarian prisoner who would help him (for a price), while the Barbarian solo quest he had in Tyrant's Tomb did the opposite and had a Wizard Prisoner (who had used up some of his spells already) to help. Needless to say they were far easier than the solo quests in EQP/BQP and I imagine in these packs.

That's my prediction anyway...

Edit: Also with past precedent, EQP and BQP both had their own unique Alchemist Shops, with 3 out of 4 potions being exclusive to the title hero (the third general one being some expensive variant of a healing potion). So the Wizard will FINALLY get those "powerful magical items" that only he can use, which he was advised, way back in the NA game system Instruction Booklet to "wisely" save his gold for, which were promised for "future expansions." !

I definitely had to introduce other characters into my EQP/BQP play-throughs to make them do-able. Without that they're pretty frustrating.