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Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Friday November 9th, 2018 8:34am
by wallydubbs
The quest booklet states:
Ogres in HeroQuest
All Ogres occupy one space on the HeroQuest gameboard. No other figure may pass through the same space as an ogre figure, weather they are good or evil. Once an Ogre blocks a corridor, it stays blocked until he either moves or is killed.

The reasoning behind Veil of Mist is that monsters won't "let" you pass them. The issue with Ogres is not that they won't let you pass, but they are too big to pass around. It's a space issue, not an allowance. Veil of Mist allows you to pass by a monster because he can't see you, it's not really the same thing when dealing with an ogre, this is why other monsters can't pass him.
But then again, Veil of Mist is magic: is it just blocking the monster's view of the hero, or does the Hero turn into the mist itself and moves around the monster that way? They are somewhat incorporeal with Pass Through Rock...

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Friday November 9th, 2018 8:42am
by Stoner81
Personally I wouldn't allow Veil of Mist to work with Ogres since, as you say, it is a space issue. They are physically a big monster so obscuring their sight isn't going to be much help with there is no space to get past them.

Good catch this really, I am going to add this to my notes in my Bestiary.

|_P |_P |_P

Stoner81.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Friday November 9th, 2018 9:03am
by wallydubbs
Stoner81 wrote:Personally I wouldn't allow Veil of Mist to work with Ogres since, as you say, it is a space issue. They are physically a big monster so obscuring their sight isn't going to be much help with there is no space to get past them.

Good catch this really, I am going to add this to my notes in my Bestiary.

|_P |_P |_P

Stoner81.


Thanks, but this does indeed raise the question of what is actually happening with Veil of Mist... is the hero turning into the mist?
If so all he needs is an area of airflow in order to pass though, not necessarily space to fit his body through. This would actually allow him to pass through furniture as well.
If not and it's just to obstruct vision of the monster and he can't see you passing him, what's to stop someone under the Spell of Invisibility (From WoM) or Disappearance (MotM) from passing by them since they cannot be seen either?

The former of these two options would give Veil of Mist, in essence, more credibility as a usable spell.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Friday November 9th, 2018 10:05am
by Maurice76
If the art of the card is any indication, the intention of the Spell is to create a bank of fog and mist, in which sight is very limited. Because it's limited, foe can be mistaken for friend and such and thereby Heroes can sneak past monsters.

As indicated, however, the space needs to exist to begin with. The Ogre has a specific ruling that says it's occopying all physical space in the tile it's standing in, so sneaking past it is simply impossible.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Friday November 9th, 2018 10:45am
by Stoner81
wallydubbs wrote:Thanks, but this does indeed raise the question of what is actually happening with Veil of Mist... is the hero turning into the mist?


No the hero isn't.

If you look at the card for the spell you can clearly see a person sneaking and on top of that the spell doesn't specifically state they they turn in to a mist.

|_P |_P |_P

Stoner81.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Sunday November 11th, 2018 10:28am
by wallydubbs
Stoner81 wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:Thanks, but this does indeed raise the question of what is actually happening with Veil of Mist... is the hero turning into the mist?


No the hero isn't.

If you look at the card for the spell you can clearly see a person sneaking...

|_P |_P |_P

Stoner81.


Yeah but you really can't go by the card's picture, Borin's Armor clearly shows a helmet and yet it's only meant to be plate mail that doesn't slow you down.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Sunday November 11th, 2018 11:03am
by Stoner81
wallydubbs wrote:Yeah but you really can't go by the card's picture, Borin's Armor clearly shows a helmet and yet it's only meant to be plate mail that doesn't slow you down.


I see your point however, the name "Borin's Armour" implies (to me at least) that it is a full set of armour which would include a helmet, boots and bracers which incidentally a full suit of full plate mail would (I'm thinking of the armour from the Knight of Camelot etc). For this reason I don't allow plate mail (battle plate I call it) or Borin's Armour to be used in conjunction with a helmet, boots or bracers.

|_P |_P |_P |_P

Stoner81.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Sunday November 11th, 2018 1:12pm
by torilen
I understand the rules would keep someone from getting by the ogre.
However, one could duck or crawl under an ogre, yes?

Perhaps make a roll when a character attempts to crawl under an ogre while
the spell is in effect. On a skull, the ogre feels them hit its legs and will
reach to grab them or attack them. Come up with some sort of penalty for such
attack and/or defense.

OR, in turn, give the ogre a penalty on any attack/defense while the spell is in effect,
so as to still make it useful with ogres around.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Sunday November 11th, 2018 4:42pm
by The Admiral
This really is a clash of rules. Per the Ogre rules, no. Per the Veil of mist wording, yes. This really is up to the EW player to decide. Personally I would say yes they can pass. I get the fact that the Ogre is a physical block,but I see the veil of mist allowing the Hero to slip past an unsuspecting ogre. Maybe through his legs, maybe he turns to the side. But if an EW player was to rule no, then I would be totally happy with that.

Re: Does Veil of Mist work on Ogres?

PostPosted: Sunday November 11th, 2018 6:05pm
by Maurice76
And if the player crawls beneath an Ogre, shouldn't the Hero "pay" for that in some way, because he has to start crawling and after passing the Ogre, to get up again? Also, you can't crawl as fast as you can walk.

I'd say that makes it way more complicated than it has to be. Also, what's the distance between an Ogre's legs? And does this differ between male en female Ogres?