Stone Doorway question

[The Admiral]

Do you consider attempting to open a stone door as part of movement, or as that Hero's action?

If part of movement, then if successful, the Hero could carry on moving and take an action before or after that movement. I am assuming if it is unsuccessful then that ends movement, but still allows the action before or after that movement.

If an action, then if the Hero moved up to the door it would end their turn. If they started next to the door, then they could take their move after the attempt whether successful or not.

How do people handle these, and why am I raising questions on this now, but it never occurred to me 25 years ago ?

[knightkrawler]

As far as I remember, the special rules in AtOH don't mention the attempt is an action. They don't use the term attack or any other that clarifies or even implies it being an action.
That and the fact that actions are clearly defined in the instruction manual has me convinced that it's neither movement nor action,
but rather a bonus little extra you can do within the confines of your full turn.

However, I have ruled it such:
Stone Door
A stone door can only be opened if a hero makes a successful unarmed attack roll*. Unless otherwise described in the quest notes, a stone door has 1♥.
This wording in combination with the definition of an attack roll as an action makes the attempt to open a stone door an action in my rule system.

*The second sentence is superfluous I just found out. Goes into the edits next round.
All heroes roll one die for an unarmed attack, but the succeeding symbol varies between them. Plus, a wizard only may roll an unarmed attack if he can neither move first or take another action.
All of this makes it possible to simply apply that unarmed attack to stone doors, including the differences in strength between heroes.

[Daedalus]

I'd recommend treating it like the old door from room A of Quest 6, The Great Citadel (RotWL), but with a different dice mechanic. That means success opens the door (part of movement, not an action), but failure ends a Hero's turn.

[Gomcse]

The quest book seems to treat it as a standard door opening non-action, except for the need to successfully roll to get it done. I like playing it with the heroes able to perform other regular actions because if you don't allow that, they could have a frustrating death. Test it both ways and see what works best, perhaps trying it outside of a normal quest so you can do it thirty times and get a good picture would help you decide the best way for your group to play it.

[Stoner81]

Throughout the other books a Hero may open as many doors as his movement will allow and as such I treat stone doors the same way. If a Hero fails at opening a stone door he may continue the rest of his turn as normal.



Stoner81.

EDIT - After some more thought I decided to change the above and make it Action to open.

[wallydubbs]

I would treat it the same way you treat a locked door in Keller's Keep; only if you fail to open it it ends your turn.

[Maurice76]

The opening mechanism of a Stone Door seems to imply an effort on the Hero's part to open it. It's not a matter of grabbing the hold of the door, pressing it and swinging it open; the strength check implies a serious physical strain on the Hero's part to actually get the door to budge. It's heavy and probably not hinged and oiled in a way to ease opening, else the door could be opened without any check whatsoever.

Gamewise, the Stone Door seems to act like a speed bump for the Heroes. It's a barrier that they need to surmount, in order to proceed further.

As EW, I would rule that the effort to open such a Stone Door counts as a standard action - and as a standard action, this has implications for anything else said Hero is able to do - and more importantly, not do - within that same turn.

[Anderas]

The stone door can take away the action from heroes entering a room; thus protecting the monsters inside a little bit.

However nice this thought was when I had it, the placement of those doors in the original quest pack is not always brilliant.

[wallydubbs]

Now that I have a copy of Against the Ogre Horde, I've got to put serious opinion into this...

Stone Doorways
Stone Doorways are large slabs of rock that must be pushed out of the way using brute force before you can pass. To open one of these doors a hero must roll a number of combat dice and score 2 skulls. The number of dice he throws depends on what character type he is: the Dwarf and the Elf both roll 2 dice, the Barbarian rolls 3 dice. The Wizard cannot open a stone doorway. Once a stone doorway has been opened it remains open for the rest of the quest.

There's a valid argument going both ways: the rules clearly state that for a normal doorway no action is taken to open the door. One can easily apply this to a stone doorway... however if the hero fails to roll 2 skulls the door won't open, and I'd suggest their turn ends (though the rules don't specify that much).

However the rules do state that it has to be moved with brute force, implying that it might take a bit of a struggle to do so.
Most of the times I've played the Barbarian is usually elected to go first. Since he has the best chance at opening the stone door, he'll also be elected to do that too. So we'll say he does go first, rolls 2 skulls and forces the door... and there's monsters on the other side of the door. It's not that same as bursting through a closed door and attacking the first thing that moves... no, he's forcefully moving that huge block, scraping stone against stone to get it out of the way. And to top it off there are monsters on the other side of that door. Is he really going to manually move that huge block, grab is sword and attack before the first orc has time to react?
No, if you want to get real, those orcs will hear the stone moving. As soon as they see a human moving that slab, they're going to rush to the door and start poking with their swords. We can say Barbarian wasted his action to open the door.
Ok, fine... but wait! Barbarian was only the first of 4 heroes to move! The Elf, Wizard and Dwarf now have the chance to swarm in and attack the orcs, when the orcs should be fully prepared by now on what is to come.
So it seems that now you can have 3 options:
- The hero doesn't lose his action and continues unabated upon opening the stone door.
- The hero uses his action to open the door.
- The monsters react to the stone door being heftilly removed and attack before the heroes have a chance to fit through the newly exposed doorway.

It seems as if this wasn't completely thought through by the playtesters, otherwise I'm sure it would've been addressed in the quest book. I have to wonder that the only reason the stone doorway was implemented was to maybe force the wizard to use his genie for something other than attack.

I also wish to address using a Potion of Strength when attempting to move the stone slab. If it's going to cost an action, then yes, the Wizard should be allowed to try if he has a Potion of Strength. Since the Dwarf and Elf get 2 dice in their attempt, it makes sense that the Wizard would only get 1... so a Potion of Strength would allow the wizard 3 dice if he attempts to move it, 4 for the Dwarf and Elf, and 5 for the Barbarian.
Although Potions of Strength are generally for attack purposes, it seems adequate for this situation.

[mitchiemasha]

if you want to get real, those orcs will hear the stone moving. As soon as they see a human moving that slab
- The monsters react to the stone door being heftilly removed and attack before the heroes have a chance to fit through the newly exposed doorway.

When designing a Quest, the notes could specify... "upon opening the door, all heroes end their turn" however, I'd disregard the above as a default option.

I've brought this up a few times... But, not related to stone doors. Many have a problem with how the monsters appear oblivious, stood there doing nothing, locked for all eternity to that very unique spot, how they can't hear the noise in the next room and rush the Heroes, how they can't even open normal doors. This is a misconception.

Prior to discovering a monster, that monster could of been anywhere. Upon entering a room, half of the monsters could of vacated it to form a stronger ambush in the next. Upon moving a big heafty stone door, the monsters in that room could of been charging in from 2 rooms away. Where you meet them just happens to be where they got to, relative to your time. The quest book simply facilitates the unfolding of a story, it's where that's fixed, when that's the variable. What ever was in the before has endless imaginings... Or, totally irrelevant if one cares not for the story telling RPG potential of the game.

I like the idea of "they're going to rush to the door and start poking with their swords." "upon opening the door, all heroes end their turn" as a quest note specific. If fits perfectly with ideas like C) in KK the Great Gate, the undiscoverable trap doors the EW gets to choose when to open. Things like that add spice and change it up a bit.