Kurgan wrote:Here are "my" ideas of how it would work to integrate parts from HQ into BM (instead of the other way around as many have also done already). Someone has probably already thought of these and can point out any issues...
I do like the idea that some units will be carrying treasure chests and these could be captured by another unit destroying them.
I also like the idea of capturing enemy units somehow and forcing the other side to ransom them back, or hire mercenaries for additional units, but that part isn't well thought out yet.
So the Four Heroes would be able to join the battle. Perhaps having all four of them on the battlefield at once would be too powerful, unless the bad guys also had four evil "heroes" on their side as well (perhaps the Wizards of Morcar). But even having one Hero on the Imperial side and one Chaos Warlock on the Chaos side would be cool.
As I have all the battlemasters, heroquest, warhammer, Warhammer Quest and advanced heroquest sets that came out, I often mix and match during my personal use. It's all the GW old world to me. HeroQuest is far easier to add to custom rules wise and still have it play like a board game as intended or even just use it as a 3D representation of Warhammer Roleplay or D&D, but with Battlemasters on the other hand besides adding more Battlemasters to make bigger longer grander games, if you start adding new types of units and custom rules you seriously undermine the game rules and just end up trying to reinvent the Warhammer Fantasy Battle tabletop game, rather than actually playing bigger better BattleMasters (custom cards would be needed in the deck, balance issues would worsen, etc.)
Ultimately it is much much easier to just play Warhammer with Battlemasters figures (poor mans warhammer; most of my early WH armies were BM, HQ and Darkworld board game conversions.)
They already have a very detailed, well thought out, play tested, large scale battle miniatures game with all of the monsters in that game world and rules for equipment, heroes, magic etc. that basically works (some editions better than others) and it doesn't matter which miniatures are used, plus many of the scenarios you envision such as ransom and treasure chest raiding are printed, so why reinvent the wheel? perhaps work on a personal version of the wheel you like better but don't start from scratch on game design.
Battlemasters is a pretty simple rules wise fun game with a hoard of awesome miniatures but it would be tough to add any totally new stuff to. Very quickly you aren't playing Battlemasters anymore but an unwieldy Frankenstein's monster.
In complexity Battlemasters is checkers, Warhammer is chess. Keep it simple.
Heroquest is a single night of D&D concept intro or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay for newcomers, but it doesn't ever have to evolve beyond a board game, while anything involving serious character development, custom add ons etc. for HQ just becomes RPG style play (D&D or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) using HeroQuest as visual representation. Advanced HeroQuest and Warhammer Quest are already basically just that lite and WFRP is the whole hog. I occasionally use custom tiles and figures borrowed from other games in my HQ and I drew up my own armory but I didn't want to make it an RPG so let it be at that. It is a board game. I have lots of actual D&D or WHFRP if I want to do that style of more detailed play.
Battlemasters is a fun game to introduce your friends to tabletop style whole armies grand combat play, but it really is just an intro to Warhammer, (or a simple game on it's own for non war gamer types) as I am certain it was always intended in game design and marketing.
I do use HeroQuest, Advanced HeroQuest, Warhammer Quest to represent what happens to heroes or individuals in a continuing story rather than whole armies clashing, basically roleplaying in the Old World but using the individual simpler game rules rather than Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay rules, and I use Warhammer Fantasy Battle and BattleMasters to represent the ongoing over all war story wise. I just use whatever rules for whichever game I am using to tell the story rather than attempting conversions of custom rules to encompass everything. HQ stats are practically the same as WH stats anyway.
I also use HeroQuest and Battlemasters as just boardgames as they are intended for a night of fun for any non serious gamers I can talk into playing them.
In the first three Warhammer editions they had baggage trains and camp followers that allowed you to attack behind enemy lines hitting or capturing the enemy payroll treasure chests, camp tents, food supply, reserves, etc. Also at that point mercenaries or ally army factions were a bigger deal too so ransoms and treasure raids were common scenarios between various groups represented on the tabletop. Nothing makes a halfling unit more angry than losing their baggage train and food supply!
In 4th edition Warhammer on, the streamlined straight out of the box game became more about single session battles for a victory for tournament style play where anyone could buy an army of a certain point size and play against anyone else with the same point size army for a supposedly fair fight, and less about campaigning or RPG style realism that was the hallmark of early Warhammer (well where are the enemy camp and tents? Did the general leave them unprotected? What happens to the army if we attack the baggage train? Does the orc village have a latrine and is that difficult or uncrossable movement ground?)
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