The Hired Hand [Mercenaries]

[drathe]

Supposedly the Crossbowman also has a broadsword and may attack with 3 adjacently (End of Frozen Horror Quest Book, Mercenary List). Personally, I'd make it a shortsword for 2, or even a dagger for 1.

[Daedalus]

As drathe said, pictures (and miniatures, for that) have nothing to do with rules. But still, for atmoshere, I like to think the mercenaries really look as they are depicted. But they are mercenaries, not heroes. Heroes are exceptional. They have more defense dice to begin with - normally two, even when unequipped. This means a plate mail (4) really only adds two. "Normal" people would have zero to start with, so plate mail (2) plus helmet (1) would be three.

Big yes on concept, Big Bene. Mercenaries start with less base defend dice than Heroes- good call. Occupation bounds the characteristics of named monsters, Mercenaries, and Elven Archers and Elven Warriors, too. Movement is similarly variable and limited to the role of the figure.
I'd differ by saying "normal" Elves would have 1 Defend dice to start with. It could explain why Elven Archers pictured wearing Chain Mail have 2 Defend Dice and and Elven Warriors pictured wearing Chain Mail and bearing a Shield have 3 Defend dice.

But they only have a breast plate not full plate armour. Maybe they have a base defence of 1, then +1 for helmet and +1 for the breast plate, that makes 3. The scout should have 4 defence and the swordsman can have 4 defence; his base defence is 2 because he can defend well with his sword.

I'm mostly with Ethica on his take of Mercenaries not wearing Plate Mail (except for the Swordsman), and having Helmets. I feel the ambiguous art is a production design choice. I differ by reasoning that Mercenaries can either be considered to be wearing Chain Mail (missing greaves, as pictured in the Armory) or Plate Mail. Additionally, they also could be considered to be wearing a Helmet, or not. That way, Milton Bradley saved money on Mercenary sculpts and molds, as only 1 body was necessary.
I further agree that all Mercenaries but the Swordsman start with 1 defend die, not 2 like the Heroes have. The Crossbowman and Halberdier both wear Chain Mail and a Helmet for 2 additional Defend dice (total of 3). The Scout wears Chain Mail and bears a Shield for 2 additional Defend dice (total of 3), but only wears a feathered Empire cap. The Swordsman wears Plate Mail and a Helmet to derive his 3 additional defend dice. This is corroborated by his slower Move of 5 squares, as compared to the other Mercenaries' Move of 6. His total of 5 Defend dice is explained by his starting out with 2 Defend dice, as his occupation possesses a fighting skill equivalent to the Heroes.

[Daedalus]

We all know there are many differences between the North American, and the Other Worldly version of HeroQuest. So it comes as no surprise that the rules for Mercenaries differs. However, in my opinion, neither version has a set of rules for Mercenaries that fits the game properly.

In the North American Version (NA) a Hero may hire as many Mercenaries as they can afford. A strange rule given the Barbarian Pack, which introduces the Mercenaries only provides six miniatures and only three of each interchangeable weapon. Especially when several quests call for certain Mercenaries to be villains in the quests to be controlled by Zargon. By the time a Hero reaches the Barbarian Quest pack (through traditional progression), they usually have acquired a small fortune of gold to spend, and can afford numerous Mercenaries. The Barbarian Pack, being a rather difficult adventure, would see a Hero hiring Mercenaries often.

In the European Version (EU) a Hero may only hire up to four Mercenaries. This seems to be a better option as it limits the number of hired Mercenaries, creating the possibility of more being available to each Hero and Zargon. Now, the EU edition has the Mercenaries introduced in the Wizards of Morcar quest pack (as well as the Advanced Edition), and provides a total of twelve Mercenaries for hire. Of the two versions, the EU limit of four each seems to be the way to go.

The EU rules also state that once a Hero receives the title of Champion, they may hire Mercenaries. In the EU edition, a Hero is awarded the Champion title once they successfully complete three quests. I find this to be a poor rule for several reasons. Not only are Mercenaries unnecessary when playing the game with EU rules due to the single body point, and lower quantity of monsters, but Mercenaries are introduced in the last pack of the traditional progression in the EU story line. Meaning a Hero should have been able to hire mercenaries since Quest Four of the Game System but were denied because Mercenaries don't come into play until WOM (unless one has the Advanced Edition game system, which doesn't include the rules for Mercenaries for hire, but includes the Miniatures for use in the Dark Company).

In the NA version, a Hero receives the title of Champion after they defeat of the Witch Lord. Meaning a Hero only needs to complete one quest, but more than likely has a dozen quests under their belt. Baker's or otherwise. As quest packs can be played out of the traditional order (I frown upon it) Heroes could begin hiring Mercenaries after they play through the Main System of quests. I myself prefer to play the quest pack in traditional progression, thus introduce the ability to hire Mercenaries once Heroes reach a quest pack with Mercenaries (WOM in my progression), and may do so henceforth.

A question of price arises when looking at both sets of rules. In the NA rules included with the Barbarian Pack, a Hero hires a Mercenary for one quest only. Meaning that a full fee must be paid for each quest a Hero wishes to hire a Mercenary. The EU rules differ to no surprise. A Hero pays a flat fee to hire a Mercenary, who will accompany a Hero throughout each quest as long as an additional commission of ten gold is paid to the Mercenary at the end of each quest.

So now I have some questions:

Okay, here's my take on Mercenaries. [Disclaimer: I have only played through the main system's Quests, Kellar's Keep, and Return of the Witch Lord expansions. I haven't yet played with Mercenaries.]

When should a Hero be allowed to hire Mercenaries?
(I vote when they reach a quest pack that has Mercenaries.)

I think Champion status and the right to hire Mercenaries should be allowed after successfully completing 14 Quests, preferably Quest 14 or something of equivalent, epic nature. The Emperor's recognition of the Heroes as seasoned warriors capable of leading Mercenaries shouldn't be gained by completing just Quest 14 alone. The intent is to reward loyal, proven service; only then would the Emperor trust Heroes enough to lead others into danger. The Emperor thinks 14 Quests is sufficient... who would gainsay the Emperor?

This assumes a player has actually played through all the Quests and circled them (or recorded them otherwise) on his or her character sheet. If a Hero died during a Quest, then the player can't circle/record that Quest as completed. So the eligibility of some players to hire Mercenaries may be delayed until enough Quests are completed to compensate for the failed Quests (the heir must prove himself). I imagine delayed hiring status would also apply to players that join in the game late- no pain, no gain.

I, like many others, don't own the expensive expansions that include Mercenary figures, so I'll need to use proxies. Would their early inclusion significantly spoil game balance in Kellar's Keep or Return of the Witch Lord, which are both difficult but designed to be achievable without Mercenaries? Perhaps, or perhaps not.

Yes, adding them in a Quest would make victory more assured and thus less exciting. Yet, in those Quests Heroes are still purchasing equipment from the Armory to reach that same goal of assuring success. To get a short-term gain from a Mercenary, a longer-term equipment gain is deferred, off-setting their overall usefulness. Another negative to hiring Mercenaries is their fragile nature. They can't use potions, and are an inefficient benefactor of healing spells, having only 2 BPs (they can only be healed 1 BP before it's too late). That means they must be played in a limited, defensive capacity, or Morcar/Zargon will surely knock them off quickly. Dead Mercenaries are only replaceable with another portion of funding that could have instead been saved for a comparatively-permanent piece of equipment. Also, Heroes may not return to the Armory in Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, and Against the Ogre Horde, so Mercenaries may only be hired for the first Quest (and rehired if they survive).

A player is gambling when hiring Mercenaries before purchasing equipment, except for the Wizard, who gets a much needed boost when Mercenaries become available. Their later inclusion in WoM and BQP simply makes the figures available when their use is more necessary after the Armory has served its purpose. Other than ridiculously expensive potions and the occasional artifact, there's no other way to power-up.

How many Mercenaries can a Hero hire?
(I personally vote on a totally new rule of one each. Reasons: In most cases, Mercenary miniatures are limited. A higher number would result in too many miniatures crowding the game board, as well as lengthy turns for Hero players. A lower number means a Hero must think about which Mercenary may be best to hire rather than having one of each at their disposal.)

I think the EU rules of a 4 limit is probably best, but see below. Proxies basically remove the limitation on miniature numbers available, but if those are limited, then first come, first serve works fine. I also think it's okay if a Hero wants to Hire 4 Swordsmen instead of 1 of each. There's tactical choice in choosing composition within the limit of 4 Mercenaries.

Crowding the game board and turn length are both issues that the players should to have to hash out- it's their game. If there are too many figures, then players are likely to split up. Players can use etiquette and not attack/move every Mercenary every turn. Morcar/Zargon can create choke points to limit a figure-heavy Hero player, limiting effectiveness and turn length. Morcar/Zargon also has the option of discouraging over-zealous hiring of Mercenaries by specially targeting those Mercenaries with monsters, traps, and spells.

For regular Quests, the limit of 4 per Hero is practical. Yet, the NA rules of no limit could provide interesting gameplay in special Quests, so I wouldn't discard the rule out-of-hand. It could be interesting to try standard Quests with only 1 or 2 Heroes beefed-up with a larger number of Mercenaries. I also think it might be cool to try a defend the castle variant, such as in Army of Darkness. (Look out Skulmar, herrre's... Ash!)

What should the cost of Mercenaries be?
(I could potentially swing either way on this one. I like the idea of having to pay an extra commission to keep a Mercenary on board for subsequent quests, but the price of continued use of a Mercenary is too minimal. Paying full price for each and every quest would drain a Hero's leather pouch quickly, as Mercenaries are expensive. Which means a Hero will need to search more vigilantly for treasure in order to rehire a Mercenary. Which I believe is the way I will probably go.)

I think I'm with you on the straight-up NA rule of a single hiring fee. Limiting the rehiring fee to half (rounded down) of the Mercenaries original fee is another option, but after checking out the special treasure from Against the Ogre Horde - 216 gold coins of special treasure per Hero, per Quest- I'm not sure it is needed. In addition, roughly another 25-35 gold coins per Hero per Quest could be drawn from the treasure deck if most rooms of a 12-16 room Quest were checked for treasure by each Hero.

In comparison, Kellar's Keep averages about 86 gold coins of special treasure and reward per Hero, per Quest. All gold coin treasure and gems are lost in Quest 6 of Return of the Witch Lord, including unspent coin from Kellar's Keep. Later special treasure that may actually be kept averages at a whopping 40 gold coins per Hero, per Quest (if the swords are sold). Either the hiring of Mercenaries is limited by occasion, as with KK, or it is limited by the combination of lack of gold coins and occasion, as with RotWL.

The sums become unbalancing with Mercenaries only if a Hero doesn't buy more equipment, as most will, I think. The nature of a long series of linked Quests creates the surplus of funds problem, not the Mercenary limit or hiring fee. If a home-brew Quest follows the special treasure awards from KK or RotWL but allows more occasions for hiring, then Mercenaries should fit in without too much of an impact, I believe. But if there is a shortage of returns to town like KK, RotWL, or AtOH, then short-term gains from extra Mercenaries should quickly dwindle upon their inevitable deaths while long-term Hero progression is delayed.

Post Transfer from Old Forum - Original Post Date: Thursday February 28th, 2008 06:08pm

[GimmeYerGold]

What about paying the mercenary 25 gold coins at the end of each quest instead of the EU version's rule of 10? The increments of most gold coin prices are in 25, the potion of charm mentions "25 fewer gold coins" in its benefit, and the incentive to keep the Mercenary alive so that it is cheaper to maintain his services is a goal for the hero to shoot for.

[Daedalus]

...Can the US crossbowman attack melee? and with how many dice?...

-SadKitchen

Supposedly the Crossbowman also has a broadsword and may attack with 3 adjacently (End of Frozen Horror Quest Book, Mercenary List). Personally, I'd make it a shortsword for 2, or even a dagger for 1.

Pheonix's remaster changed the Crossbowman's adjacent attack to a more-believable and better-balanced shortsword. I'm a bit suprised you haven't made the same improvement in you're own remaster, drathe. Another to add to the to-do list?

In the NA version, a Hero receives the title of Champion after they defeat of the Witch Lord. Meaning a Hero only needs to complete one quest, but more than likely has a dozen quests under their belt. Baker's or otherwise. As quest packs can be played out of the traditional order (I frown upon it) Heroes could begin hiring Mercenaries after they play through the Main System of quests. I myself prefer to play the quest pack in traditional progression, thus introduce the ability to hire Mercenaries once Heroes reach a quest pack with Mercenaries (WOM in my progression), and may do so henceforth....

I think Champion status and the right to hire Mercenaries should be allowed after successfully completing 14 Quests, preferably Quest 14 or something of equivalent, epic nature. The Emperor's recognition of the Heroes as seasoned warriors capable of leading Mercenaries shouldn't be gained by completing just Quest 14 alone. The intent is to reward loyal, proven service; only then would the Emperor trust Heroes enough to lead others into danger. The Emperor thinks 14 Quests is sufficient... who would gainsay the Emperor?

This assumes a player has actually played through all the Quests and circled them (or recorded them otherwise) on his or her character sheet. If a Hero died during a Quest, then the player can't circle/record that Quest as completed. So the eligibility of some players to hire Mercenaries may be delayed until enough Quests are completed to compensate for the failed Quests (the heir must prove himself). I imagine delayed hiring status would also apply to players that join in the game late- no pain, no gain.

I recently came across a rule tucked away on p.5 of the NA Instruction Booklet under What Makes Hero Quest Unique:

• A game for 2 to 5 players, Hero Quest
  is played in 14 sequential game play-
  ing sessions called Quests. Each Quest is
  described in detail in the Quest Book.

As the Quests are sequential, they should be played one following the other. On p.5 of the Instruction Booklet under To Begin the Quest, Quest 1 is indicated as the starting point. Thus, 14 Quests are meant to be completed before earning the title of Champion.

By mixing EU and NA rules, a Champion could then hire Mercenaries at this point. Despite this, I'll probably go with drathe's suggestion that it's a good idea to wait until WoM for hiring, when Mercenaries are first commonly available and Quests are designed to handle them.

What about paying the mercenary 25 gold coins at the end of each quest instead of the EU version's rule of 10? The increments of most gold coin prices are in 25, the potion of charm mentions "25 fewer gold coins" in its benefit, and the incentive to keep the Mercenary alive so that it is cheaper to maintain his services is a goal for the hero to shoot for.

I'm personally still for no record keeping and higher costs. However, I agree 25 gold coins works better. If I change my position, I'll go with a 25 gold rehire-fee discount like the Potion of Charm: Swordsman 75 gold coins, Halberdier and Crossbowman 50 gold coins, Scout 25 gold coins.

[alyndavies]

I have adjusted the rules with regards to "hired help".
Basically If only my partner and myself are playing heroquest, she's allowed up to 4 men at arms to help her, the reason why we choose 4 extra men is in Space Crusade you have a captain and 4 marines. I bought some Swordsmen and halbred, men at arms cards from wizards of morcar cards of ebay.

Basically I bought some Advanced Hero quest men at arms, swordsmen and Halbred men from here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131520809114? ... EBIDX%3AIT

stuck them too 20mm bases so they fit the heroquest board. I trimmed down their bases using a nail clippers.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111287904124? ... EBIDX%3AIT

Then she's allowed them as hired help to go through the quests. She just pays the initial hiring fee as shes happy to sacrifice them in the quests to save her Barbarian. I bought her a copy of a Female Barbarian from the US version of the game from a guy in Italy.

However if her 3 kids are playing and the oldest childs friend, then shes not allowed to use them, as I'm already up against 5 players.