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PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby wallydubbs » Saturday January 20th, 2024 4:37pm

So I came across an unusual circumstance when playing the Fire Mage with the unlikely group of Monk, Wizard, Rogue and Bard and I'd like the opinion of others to see if i handled it right:

When the heroes got to the Fire Mage and 4 Skeletons the Monk ran in, used Eye of the Storm to attack 2 Skeletons, only killing 1. The Wizard and Rogue rolled short and couldn't get into the room. The Bard ran in and attacked the Fire Mage but flopped on the attack.
On the Fire Mage's turn he casts Fear on the Monk. No :roll6: after 4 rolls, it takes hold... Now what? He's already at one attack dice, but he's unarmed, which gives him +1.
There's been debates here on the workings of Courage and Fear overlapping each other, this is a little different.
I reasoned that it says attacks are reduced to 1 dice, so I'll just negate the extra attack dice.
The spkeletons attacked and only the Bard takes 1 damage.

The Monk attacks with 1 and rolls a :skull: but it's blocked. The Wizard can't get through the doorway as it's blocked by a Skeleton, but the Rogue can and takes out 1 skeleton. The Bard fails to hit the Fire Mage.
Fire Mage retaliated, casting Tempest on the Bard, while the 2 remaining skeletons fail to land a hit.
The Monk, still unable to break Fear used Strength of Mountain on top of Fear, giving him 3 attack dice, successfully killing a Skeleton. If Courage were cast on top of Fear I'd up it to 3 attack dice, so I did the same with this. Wizard failed to stab a Skelton, but the Rogue was successful and all Skeletons killed.
The Fire Mage, instead of Escaping, having suffered no damage decides to use Fire Storm, all heroes took 2 damage after rolling except for the Monk, who activated Twisting Torrent. This is his 3rd Elemental Style exhausted... Bringing us to the 2nd conundrum, the Fire Mage is immune to Fire Spells, but what about the Monks' Fire Technique? It's not a spell, but the game developers weren't thinking that far ahead with newer characters. I chose not to let Burning Spirit do any damage...

Just want to know how you guys would handle these questions:
1.) To what extent would Fear have over the unarmed Monk?
2.) If the Rogue were under the Fear spell would be/she still gets the bonus for Opportunistic Striker?
3.) Should the Monks' Fire technique work against the Fire Mage?


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby Kurgan » Saturday January 20th, 2024 7:22pm

I would allow the unarmed Monk to still attack with 2 dice. Some might disagree, and only add bonuses from his styles on top of 1 die.

I would treat the Monk's fire attacks as equivalent to Fire Spells in this case, making the Fire Mage immune.

I would allow the Rogue to still get the bonus for opportunistic striker if he meets the conditions listed on the card.

Lots of little situations like this arise when inserting the new heroes into older quests. Like when the Heroes are captured, I'd treat the Monk's styles like spells (the Knight would lose his shield but still could do Knight's challenge "unarmed"... the Rogue would still have all his skills that don't require weapons... his bandolier is taken so he can't argue he still has daggers to use that would strike me as cheating).

Some quests in a sense require certain heroes. Zargon would need to decide for purposes of that quest, which new hero would be equivalent to that one in that case so the quest isn't broke and needs to be restarted with those hero(es).


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby Naniyue » Monday January 22nd, 2024 12:16am

I like your monk suggestions! I haven't used her/him yet, as I'm playing things a certain way right now, but I will definitely use this hero in the future.

Is there any word about a quest pack that calls for this hero?
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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday January 23rd, 2024 6:43pm

Rumor has it that he will feature prominently in the ATOH remake due out this March. However, I am skeptical of this claim... they've never done this before with their new creations, unless they plan to release another version of the Monk inside that box. Most of the stand alone heroes are not incorporated at all (that is left up to the players).

Imagine it saying "If the Monk is with you..." but there's no monk in the box!

I see this as comparable to the situation with the Rogue Heir of Elethorn. His lore card clearly incorporates him into the land of Elethorn and the royal family so this ties him in (naturally) with the events of MOTM/ROTDM. Yet neither pack mentions him at all as if he doesn't exist. So while the Monk would be a neat fit with all this "Arena mode" stuff, it doesn't necessarily mean there will be special quests or missions for him inside the box. I bet the quests will be yet again designed with the assumption that you probably have the same party of four classic heroes going through them, and the App will just let you mix and match any heroes you want, like it does with all the others (except the 1992 solo quests that called for one specific hero).

Doug's comment that IF there was a potion in the future that recalled one of the Monk's styles... to me isn't a promise that the Monk is going to appear in ATOH, WOM or Jungles of Delthrak. It doesn't even mean that any potions will specifically call out his character. Now they COULD include a potion that says "restores any spell, skill, or style" to make sure you knew it could be used for the Monk, that would be easy to do.

But the thing is, the Monk gets his styles back very easily. Can you imagine spending 100+ gold to do something that happens nearly every round for free? The only situations I can see that being really important would be if he wanted to use his Fire twice or something. If he wants use Strength of the Mountain every turn, he pretty much can, unless he gets surrounded, since he can run away, reset, and then be ready to come back with it again on his next turn so long as there were no monsters around him. He can run away, other heroes can block his view, etc.
Why would he care to buy a potion to restore Twisting Torrent, when he could just buy a potion of healing? Granted, TT negates ALL of a single instance of damage (could be 1 Bp from a pit trap or 6 BP from an Ogre attack) while a healing type potion either restores 1, 2, 4, "full" (superior restoration) or a random 1-6.


I think Doug was using it more as an illustrative example to show how the abilities were intended to work. Still some people will say "this character is OP" and want to change him. I disagree, I don't think that's the case. The only issues I could see if they are using the Monk in the Game System and feeling annoyed that the heroes aren't getting an equal number of kills or that he feels "boring" because he can't stockpile a ton of gear to buff him up (instead he gets his buffs mostly from potions).

Other rumors imagine that ATOH will include a female Dwarf hero, or maybe the Druid (if you don't also believe that Crypt of Perpetual Darkness is hitting retail in the next year and she'll be packed in there like PoT/SQT had the Warlock and Bard). Rumors don't always turn out to be true. I remember when we were speculating that ROTDM would include Knight solo adventures. He was there, and Guardian Knights were mentioned in passing in the story sections, but his use was not prescribed. He could have been one of the heroes or a proxy for another NPC or enemy for all they cared.

Probably what really will happen is we the fans will be the ones who are (probably) inspired to write our own quests intended especially for these heroes. We may never get an official "quest pack" assigned to each one like they planned to do in 1992-1993 (back when there were "only" four heroes to consider).


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby The Admiral » Wednesday February 28th, 2024 6:17pm

Must the monk recover all exhausted elemental styles if they can, or can they choose to only recover some or none?


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby Nlinindoll » Thursday February 29th, 2024 1:28am

The Admiral wrote:Must the monk recover all exhausted elemental styles if they can, or can they choose to only recover some or none?


Yes, the Monk must or otherwise automatically recovers all elemental styles when no enemies are in line of sight. Otherwise, they would have access to the Fire Style whenever they wanted, and all the time. The card reads:

"The Elemental Style of Fire cannot be used until you have exhausted Air, Earth, and Water. If there are no monsters in your line of sight at the start of you turn, recover all exhausted Elemental Styles."

Per the rules as written, it's not optional.
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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby The Admiral » Thursday February 29th, 2024 4:35am

Well, not whenever wanted and all the time. You would still have to spend at least 3 turns exhausting the 3 elements and then have a situation in which to use the fire element. You would then need to start a turn out of sight to get all 4 back, and then have to repeat this process.

I see your point with the text, but it doesn't say 'must' which is why I wondered if that was the intention?


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby Kurgan » Thursday February 29th, 2024 8:23am

It's a use it or lose it kind of thing as intended. The condition of having no monsters in sight when the Monk's turn begins, resets all of his styles. Not a choice or action, it happens automatically, like other powers that run out when you can't see monsters.

If you want to have the Monk hold onto Fire for the rest of the quest (for example), you can mod it to work that way of course.


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby The Admiral » Thursday February 29th, 2024 8:58am

You can't use it if its not available.

We just played our first quest playing as it is apparently intended and we never even got to activate it.


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Re: PATH OF THE WANDERING MONK discussion

Postby LucaRocks » Sunday March 17th, 2024 10:49am

I've been looking over the monk rules and have a question. Please let me know if I have this right. I'm trying to figure out how I have to handle this guy as Zargon.

The monk is open to be attacked. I send an Orc. 2 skulls rolled. Monk blocks both. I send another Orc. 3 skulls rolled. Monk uses twisting torrent and the damage is cancelled. The orcs gets killed next turn. Monk regains abilities.

If I have this scenario correct, it is apparent that the monk will always need to be attacked by at least two monsters per turn. The fact that he can roll defend, use twisting torrent and be healed through potions or magic kind of makes him broken in my eyes. I haven't actually seen him played in a full quest of course. But my feeling is that he needs to be mobbed by a horde of monsters in order to even try to damage him.
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