Ye Olde Inn

Seems like they changed the Shapeshift spell, at least the text.
In the first demo version, feature online it added 1 extra dice, both in attack and defense.
In the released version it only adds 1 attack die and reduce the defense to 1 die only.
Which one you think is more balanced?

Good catch...!

lestodante wrote:Seems like they changed the Shapeshift spell, at least the text.
In the first demo version, feature online it added 1 extra dice, both in attack and defense.
In the released version it only adds 1 attack die and reduce the defense to 1 die only.
Which one you think is more balanced?

Edit: I finally had a chance to look at and compare the cards to the playtest page.

Playtest version:

Shapeshift grants you 1 extra attack and defend dice. The spell is broken when the Hero suffers 1 point of Body damage. Regain this spell when your body points return to their starting number.

Release version:

Shapeshift grants you 1 Defend dice and 1 extra Attack dice when attacking a monster that you are adjacent to.The spell is broken when the hero suffers 1 Body Point of damage. Regain this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

Looks almost like a typo. It would seem the release version intends to say 1 EXTRA defend dice, so nothing different there. Yes, they left out a space between "to." and "The." A new detail is that it only applies when attacking an adjacent monster. Odd that they say "when attacking" because you normally don't get to cast a spell while attacking (and you don't defend while attacking). I guess they probably meant to say when engaging in combat with a monster, or else the act of attacking the monster activates the spell (but then you'd get the enhancement only to your attack until you defend... and then add one to whatever you defend with).

I agree the new text is a bit more confusing. I guess it is WEAKER now because it couldn't be activated to enhance the use of the Crossbow by the Druid. If you read it (I doubt this is correct) to say you are ONLY able to defend with 1 die while attacking with 1 extra attack die to an adjacent monster, meaning it gives you a strength bonus but weakens your armor as a handicap. You can't turn the spell off but it ends automatically when you lose one body point. Does this mean when you're hit by a ranged attack, you defend with your normal dice? It raises a lot of questions if you read it this way. I'm not sure...

This made me go back and look at the other previews and apart from using numerals instead of spelling them out (ie: "1" instead of "one") and re-arranging a few sentences, the content is identical for those new hero spells and their weapons and descriptions.

Your thoughts? I think it could have been written better to clear this up. Did Doug Hopkins design these heroes (Nikki Dawes did the art for the Druid and Shauna Nikkason did the art for the Warlock, not sure who did the Orc Bard's art exactly)? Somebody should ask him on Twitter or Instagram or wherever he hangs out.

I haven't had chance to play this new class, but my feeling from the playtest is again that it's a missed opportunity to do something *different* when adding a new hero. As it stands, the Druid is just a Wizard with their own spells and less weapon limits. in my opinion, they should have been either a more healing-focused character (maybe also an alchemist/potion maker?) or stuck closer to the shapeshifting aspect.

The shapechanging is what makes the Druid interesting to me, but rather than have it as a single "self buff spell", why not make *all* the Druid's powers different animal-forms?

Something like:
Normal human form: 1 ATK, 2 DEF (plus equipment bonuses as usual; limited to mostly Wizard gear?)
Shapeshift: Bear = 3 ATK, 3 DEF
Shapeshift: Tiger = 4 ATK, 2 DEF
Shapeshift: Eagle = 2 ATK, 2 DEF, 3 Move Dice
Shapeshift: Ferret = 1 ATK, 3 DEF, doesn't trigger traps.

Shapeshifting should ignore existing "human" armor and weapons (so no "+1 extra die" stuff) but be the Druid's *main* form of attack and defense.

In fact, instead of buying weapons and armor, why not make the Shapeshift abilities Equipment that can only be bought by the Druid? This would add an entirely different dynamic to that class' progression (let the Druid start with *one* Shapeshift ability of choice out of the box, but others must be bought/found).

The big difference for me in doing it this way is that the Druid becomes a very flexible class when fully loaded up with abilities (i.e. you can choose to shapeshift into whatever form best fits the situation) but is very specific at the start (because you can just choose one specialty; i.e. a "scout" would pick Ferret or Eagle, a "fighter" would pick Bear or Tiger). It also makes them not reliant on buffs from equipment (I'd also limit them to Wizard stuff; no Battle Axes, Plate Mail, etc.), so playing one isn't like playing a Dwarf of Barbarian.

I would also not make the shapeshift forms work like spells in that they are not "consumed" when used; you can use them multiple times during a quest. However, they can *only* be activated at full Body (and/or full Mind... maybe something to make Mind more useful?) and the power is deactivated (back to regular human form) whenever you lose 1 or more BP as per the official Druid concept.

Those are cool ideas for a new character! I'm just curious what the intention was with the writer of the revised version of the Druid... somebody want to inquire with the author? I'm not on twitter or instagram.

Had a thought about the same spell stacking. If the druid gets it back after being healed and can stack it, by that same rule the warlocks demonform could be stacked, and that one returns after every kill. So I dont know if it's intended to stack.

Yeah, I highly doubt Shapeshift and Demonform are supposed to stack (the Warlock would continually get stronger at a rapid pace).

The Druid seems like a pretty solid hero, and her spells are good enough that she can be an Elf replacement, or maybe even replace the Barbarian if you have spare equipment after completing a few quests (you could even consider replacing the Wizard, but it seems wrong to play without a wizard).

The dagger as a starting weapon is sort of an issue, but if
you play smart she is still fights with 2 dice. If a hero dies in a difficult first quest (like The Trial) you may get an upgrade right away as well. This happened for us. The Bard died, the Elf took the Rapier and gave his shortsword to the Druid who replaced the dead Bard.

Kurgan wrote:

lestodante wrote:Seems like they changed the Shapeshift spell, at least the text.
In the first demo version, feature online it added 1 extra dice, both in attack and defense.
In the released version it only adds 1 attack die and reduce the defense to 1 die only.
Which one you think is more balanced?

Edit: I finally had a chance to look at and compare the cards to the playtest page.

Playtest version:

Shapeshift grants you 1 extra attack and defend dice. The spell is broken when the Hero suffers 1 point of Body damage. Regain this spell when your body points return to their starting number.

Release version:

Shapeshift grants you 1 Defend dice and 1 extra Attack dice when attacking a monster that you are adjacent to.The spell is broken when the hero suffers 1 Body Point of damage. Regain this spell when your Body Points return to their starting number.

Looks almost like a typo. It would seem the release version intends to say 1 EXTRA defend dice, so nothing different there. Yes, they left out a space between "to." and "The." A new detail is that it only applies when attacking an adjacent monster. Odd that they say "when attacking" because you normally don't get to cast a spell while attacking (and you don't defend while attacking). I guess they probably meant to say when engaging in combat with a monster, or else the act of attacking the monster activates the spell (but then you'd get the enhancement only to your attack until you defend... and then add one to whatever you defend with).

I agree the new text is a bit more confusing. I guess it is WEAKER now because it couldn't be activated to enhance the use of the Crossbow by the Druid. If you read it (I doubt this is correct) to say you are ONLY able to defend with 1 die while attacking with 1 extra attack die to an adjacent monster, meaning it gives you a strength bonus but weakens your armor as a handicap. You can't turn the spell off but it ends automatically when you lose one body point. Does this mean when you're hit by a ranged attack, you defend with your normal dice? It raises a lot of questions if you read it this way. I'm not sure...

This made me go back and look at the other previews and apart from using numerals instead of spelling them out (ie: "1" instead of "one") and re-arranging a few sentences, the content is identical for those new hero spells and their weapons and descriptions.

Your thoughts? I think it could have been written better to clear this up. Did Doug Hopkins design these heroes (Nikki Dawes did the art for the Druid and Shauna Nikkason did the art for the Warlock, not sure who did the Orc Bard's art exactly)? Somebody should ask him on Twitter or Instagram or wherever he hangs out.

About the Shapeshift Druid Spell rules interpretation, official Zargon twitter account fortunately confirmed on 22/Mar/2022 that the release version of the card was intended to say the same as in the playtest card (more info in this post), so this Spell may provide to the Druid 1 extra Attack dice AND 1 extra Defend dice.

Looking over the Druid and playing her in a quest, I don't think this character is a good fit for Hero Quest. With only 4 heroes per quest the Druid can't make the cut:

Ever hear the saying, "If it's not broke don't fix it"?
The original 4 heroes are well rounded and complimentary to eachother. This character doesn't bring much to the table asides from a couple of healing spells and is hindered by her inability to wear armor.
You don't want to replace the Wizard with her, he's got too many useful spells.
With any other hero you're giving your attack strength for this one-trick pony.
The Shape-Shift spell, in essence, is a good spell that makes her formidable for an attack or two, but once lost the spell is difficult to regain. Instead of casting her healing spells on heroes who might need it the Druid, in turn, can cast it on herself to make herself useful again. Regaining that spell comes at a price of healing spells or potions, which are much better off saved up by the original heroes for when they need it.

The Druids inability to wear armor ensures that this spell will die quickly.

It also seems weird that a hero who can't wear a helmet is able to wield a battle axe... Or did I misinterpret?

Well, wallydubbs, I share with you most of your thoughts, but trying to "save" a bit this character, I think one approach could be thinking that the use of metal armour should be something rare for regular spellcasters like a Druid. The only exceptions could be the Elf, since it is supposed to be a High Elf, a great and legendary race of experts in magic (exception also suggested by the Advanced HeroQuest rulebook), and maybe also a Cleric, if we want to think they exist in the HeroQuest universe (Legacy of Sorasil videogame included one, so I think we can), who use to be a mixture between warrior and magical priest. Such approach could "save" a bit the weird (I agree) feeling of seeing the Druid wielding a Battle Axe. The rest of spellcasters should be far from any metallic armour, I think from lore point of view.

And about her spells, well, I have not played yet with this character, but the Shapeshift spell seems to be quite powerful. If the Druid is well protected until the last stages of the quest I think her attacks could be an important factor in the quest progress, but, yes, I agree, maybe it is not enough to compensate the power of the Wizard character.

Probably the most similar character to the Druid would be the Elf since it does not use to have any powerful attacking elemental spell, which use to be get by the Wizard, however the Druid has it (Shapeshift) and can regain it one or two times per quest, which is mostly equivalent to consider she starts with 4 or 5 spells instead of 3 like the Elf, which could compensate the penalization that she may not use metal armour and the Elf yes. Nevertheless, a Druid with Bracers and Shield will have 4 Defend dice in Defence, which is not bad, and by casting Shapeshift Spell she will get another Defend die... then I don't see her so weak, but as said, just speculation from my side, I have not played it to have a more accurate vision.