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Comparing the AHQ Variants

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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby RECIVS » Saturday December 19th, 2020 11:41am

Davane wrote: Plus, card manipulation and deck building is easier done done with cards.

I'm not quite sure what you meant to say there.

Davane wrote:So, there's definitely a sweet spot where cards make more sense than tables, based on number of unique permutations and what you are looking to do with the deck.

Perhaps cards make more sense to people who already prefer them? It's relatively easy to be biased by one's own preferences and experiences. Could there be an objective measure?

Dice are sturdier than cards, and they're easier to handle and store. Tables are much easier to design and modify during playtesting, and they definitely provide more varied and unpredictable results than cards with less effort (as you implied). With that in mind, I don't see how the process of designing, printing, cutting, laminating, storing, shuffling and handling several decks of playing cards (as enjoyable as it may be) could "make more sense" than rolling a few dice and retaining (for a few seconds) simple information like "two sections-wandering monsters-right turn" or "lair-two doors-one table". I believe the mind-sharpening effect alone should be enough to tip the scale. I can see, though, how drawing cards could be easier than looking up information in tables.

Stig wrote:I guess I'm just scarred by playing another solo dungeon crawler which had a lot of rolling but was so badly organised - Four Against Darkness - that the fans had to try to make flowcharts, summary sheets etc, and it was still difficult to work out what to do. But despite this the game was brilliant. As mentioned everywhere, it's a matter of preference.

Nobody wants a badly organized game; that's for sure. If you're familiar with Reforged, my variant may be less complicated and more solo-play friendly than most of the trendy DCs out there.

Stig wrote:I had a look at your GM sheet on Boardgamegeek and I think the link is broken

Fixed. That's the one for AHQ though; you may want to check the last post of that thread.

Stig wrote:is there a single page somewhere with all of the tables to generate the dungeon, like a GM summary sheet with everything to avoid having to leaf through the rulebook?

Yes, on page 165-167
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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby Stig » Monday December 21st, 2020 9:55am

Thanks, great to have the tables in one place. Im struggling to find out how experience points are counted in Reforged; its not in the core rules, character creation or between quests section. I know Im missing it - where is it?


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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby RECIVS » Monday December 21st, 2020 12:26pm

Stig wrote:Im struggling to find out how experience points are counted in Reforged; its not in the core rules, character creation or between quests section. I know Im missing it - where is it?

There are no "experience points" in Reforged (perhaps you've been playing Extreme or 2nd Edition lately?). You may find Experience and Party Experience, which increase as the adventurers complete quests or train (see Party Experience in the Core Rules and Experience in Appendix 05-Quests & Campaigns). Party Experience is used to determine the Value of Enemies (see Appendix 06-Bestiaries Part 1), which I find to be a very clever system by the way. Nevertheless, those concepts are relevant only between expeditions (or DLs), so you shouldn't worry about them during exploration and combat (that's why I don't like Experience Points). You may find Experience, Party Experience, and Value of Enemies already figured out in my GM Play Sheet example.
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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby Stig » Tuesday January 5th, 2021 3:23am

Thanks - I've read about the "levels" of Second Edition and that seems a really neat system to determine the costs of improvement and difficulty of Monsters (eg gaining a skill costs 100 gold x Level, so a Level 4 Hero would need to pay 400 gold for a skill. Going up a skill adds 0.5 to the Hero's level, so the next improvement is even dearer)

RECIVS wrote:
Davane wrote: Plus, card manipulation and deck building is easier done done with cards.

I'm not quite sure what you meant to say there.


I think what was meant by this statement is that there could be additional effects/skills added with a card system, much like what happens in Magic the Gathering. I imagine something like Skill: Foresight - once per Dungeon Level, after drawing a Hazard Room card, you may place it at the bottom of the deck and draw another


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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby RECIVS » Friday January 8th, 2021 1:08pm

Stig wrote:Thanks - I've read about the "levels" of Second Edition and that seems a really neat system to determine the costs of improvement and difficulty of Monsters

It is indeed neat, but not easier nor more convenient than Slev's system in my opinion. In 2nd Edition you have to count each monster killed and keep track of the corresponding Experience Points gained after every encounter (sometimes they're granted to more than one adventurer depending on their position), which means longer downtimes and even more pencil dragging for the GM/Solo Player without much different results than Slev's system. You may see that most of the housekeeping in Slev's variant (and mine) occurs between expeditions, not during exploration and combat. Besides, I don't think a system like that is in tune with (what I believe is) the "feel" of the original rules.

Stig wrote:I think what was meant by this statement is that there could be additional effects/skills added with a card system, much like what happens in Magic the Gathering. I imagine something like Skill: Foresight - once per Dungeon Level, after drawing a Hazard Room card, you may place it at the bottom of the deck and draw another

It could be, though I still think that's easier done with tables.
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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby Stig » Friday January 8th, 2021 4:51pm

RECIVS wrote:
Stig wrote:Thanks - I've read about the "levels" of Second Edition and that seems a really neat system to determine the costs of improvement and difficulty of Monsters

It is indeed neat, but not easier nor more convenient than Slev's system in my opinion. In 2nd Edition you have to count each monster killed and keep track of the corresponding Experience Points gained after every encounter (sometimes they're granted to more than one adventurer depending on their position), which means longer downtimes and even more pencil dragging for the GM/Solo Player. You may see that most of the housekeeping in Slev's variant (and mine) occurs between expeditions, not during exploration and combat. Besides, I don't think a system like that is in tune with (what I believe is) the "feel" of the original rules.


Absolutely, I prefer the variant suggested in the second edition rulebook which was to use Gold instead of counting monster point values, which as you say must be a drag. When using Gold you just double the numbers in the table, so avoids pencil dragging during the quest.

I need to have another look at Slev and your rules - could version 1.76 maybe be an attempt at condensing it? Second edition is around 65 pages yet your rules only start on something like page 85 after the explanation of the latest changes, which to a first time reader, aren’t as important as the amazing rules within. There’s something about the accessibility/writing style/many appendices that doesn’t do it for me in terms of presentation of Reforged. I’ve genuinely had a go at reading it and couldn’t tell you now how party experience works. With second edition experience is one paragraph, a clear table, done. One strong appeal for me the brevity of Second Edition. And the special doors!


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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby Kurgan » Friday January 8th, 2021 6:33pm

Is it just me or did many of the "bonus hazards" that appeared in the Marvel Winter Special come straight from the Advanced Hero Quest art?

I also see the same special promoted the use of various minis created for Advanced Hero Quest to be used in classic Hero Quest. I've only ever seen AHQ in pictures. Can anybody confirm?
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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby RECIVS » Friday January 8th, 2021 6:50pm

Kurgan wrote:Is it just me or did many of the "bonus hazards" that appeared in the Marvel Winter Special come straight from the Advanced Hero Quest art?

I also see the same special promoted the use of various minis created for Advanced Hero Quest to be used in classic Hero Quest. I've only ever seen AHQ in pictures. Can anybody confirm?

Could you post a link or image?
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Re: Comparing the AHQ Variants

Postby RECIVS » Friday January 8th, 2021 6:53pm

Stig wrote: I prefer the variant suggested in the second edition rulebook which was to use Gold instead of counting monster point values, which as you say must be a drag. When using Gold you just double the numbers in the table, so avoids pencil dragging during the quest.

There's still the issue of Fate Point accumulation though, which may affect game balance. That's easy to fix nevertheless.

Stig wrote:could version 1.76 maybe be an attempt at condensing it?

Sorry, I don't think I can make it more condensed than that. Keep in mind that it's meant for Reforged veterans looking for an upgrade.

Stig wrote:There’s something about the accessibility/writing style/many appendices that doesn’t do it for me in terms of presentation of Reforged.

Yes, it's not the easiest game to get into, but it's not that complicated either. You don't need to go through everything to start playing. It could be much harder if the reader is not familiar with AHQ though. You should have some experience with the original before starting with Slev's rules (I spent a little more than a year with the vanilla rules before starting with variants). It's not very different from 2nd Edition anyway; you just need to know where everything is. One of the best solo-play DC experiences lays past the learning curve.
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Marvel Winter Special

Postby Kurgan » Saturday January 9th, 2021 12:02am

RECIVS wrote:
Kurgan wrote:Is it just me or did many of the "bonus hazards" that appeared in the Marvel Winter Special come straight from the Advanced Hero Quest art?

I also see the same special promoted the use of various minis created for Advanced Hero Quest to be used in classic Hero Quest. I've only ever seen AHQ in pictures. Can anybody confirm?

Could you post a link or image?


Sure, here are some... there seem to be others as well. You can see the whole thing at ye inn page... (seventh item link down... see pages 2 the inside front cover and the page 35, the back inside cover of the pdf; the "free hazards pack") and a whole forum section dedicated to it as well. |_P
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