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Useless potion of alchemy

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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby The Admiral » November 10th, 2020, 10:18 am

Malcadon wrote:Don't forget the inability for Heroes to backtrack during movement (at least with the first UK print).


Silly rule. I don't think we even played that when I got the UK 1st edition.


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby Kurgan » November 10th, 2020, 1:35 pm

I don't think it ever came up when we played... I guess I could see somebody walking into a room "oops, I see a bunch of bad stuff in here" (backtracks out, Zargon says "you can't do that!").
More than likely though once the room is revealed it's "too late" otherwise the player would be like "oh, I just want to end my movement here, just kidding." there would be a momentary argument and then it would continue on.

Once the game session has been going for awhile, if we were reading the rules wrong, we'd either voluntarily end the game, or just keep playing it as we were since it wouldn't be fair otherwise (unless the misunderstanding broke the game). As Zargon I figured it was charitable to just ignore my own mistakes (like if I forgot to put out a monster that was supposed to be there a few turns ago, unless it was essential to the quest).

At one point I used to chuckle that we were still playing "like when we were kids" taping our figure on each square going "one... two... three..." but the NA instructions actually say to move "square by square" (placing them instantly on the final square makes it easier to fudge if others aren't paying close attention).


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby The Admiral » November 11th, 2020, 8:08 am

Kurgan wrote:At one point I used to chuckle that we were still playing "like when we were kids" taping our figure on each square going "one... two... three..." but the NA instructions actually say to move "square by square" (placing them instantly on the final square makes it easier to fudge if others aren't paying close attention).


Yeah, my brother used to do that to avoid traps, and when I would ask him to retrace his steps, he would know there was a trap in the room and then work out where the trap probably was, thus usually avoiding it. I make him trace his move now in every unsearched room.

I also don't insist that if you open a door you have to step in.


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby cynthialee » November 11th, 2020, 1:47 pm

The Admiral wrote:
Kurgan wrote:At one point I used to chuckle that we were still playing "like when we were kids" taping our figure on each square going "one... two... three..." but the NA instructions actually say to move "square by square" (placing them instantly on the final square makes it easier to fudge if others aren't paying close attention).


Yeah, my brother used to do that to avoid traps, and when I would ask him to retrace his steps, he would know there was a trap in the room and then work out where the trap probably was, thus usually avoiding it. I make him trace his move now in every unsearched room.

I also don't insist that if you open a door you have to step in.


Agreed

But I do charge a movement point to open or close a door (yes I allow doors to be closed. That is the stupidest rule in the book.)
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby Kurgan » November 11th, 2020, 8:15 pm

So you can trap monsters in rooms? (I believe only the Wizards of Morcar are said to be able to open doors, though I guess in theory the Dark Warriors could too).
That's kind of funny, actually, but I could see that being abused. Maybe you roll dice to see if you can hold the door closed or if the monster breaks down the door?

The only time I close a door is when it's the entrance door or when I draw one of those Evil Wizard Cards (just a temporary closure anyway).

After this discussion I did leaf through Phoenix's versions of ATOH, WOM and Dark Company and didn't find any reference to selling back equipment. So maybe you folks saying it wasn't part of the EU edition are right? I admit I only skimmed and searched for key words, so I could have missed something.

Otherwise I guess between quests you can just "throw away" your stuff, and rationalize you traded it for Mead and Mutton at the local tavern.


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby cynthialee » November 11th, 2020, 8:58 pm

no, the monster can open any door it has seen being opened
and I also allow monsters to shut doors if that is the smart tactical move of the moment :D
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby Oftkilted » November 11th, 2020, 9:32 pm

Kurgan wrote:After this discussion I did leaf through Phoenix's versions of ATOH, WOM and Dark Company and didn't find any reference to selling back equipment. So maybe you folks saying it wasn't part of the EU edition are right? I admit I only skimmed and searched for key words, so I could have missed something.

Otherwise I guess between quests you can just "throw away" your stuff, and rationalize you traded it for Mead and Mutton at the local tavern.

Selling back was an EQP/BQP addition. So it never became a thing in the EU version. (They were NA only.)

Kurgan wrote: So you can trap monsters in rooms? (I believe only the Wizards of Morcar are said to be able to open doors, though I guess in theory the Dark Warriors could too).
That's kind of funny, actually, but I could see that being abused. Maybe you roll dice to see if you can hold the door closed or if the monster breaks down the door?

The only time I close a door is when it's the entrance door or when I draw one of those Evil Wizard Cards (just a temporary closure anyway).

In the NA version it clarifies that you can’t close doors. P.13 under “looking and opening doors”

“Note: All doors start out closed. Once a door is opened, it can never be closed.”

That’s because heroes are breaking the locks when opening doors ... darn violent heroes. :lol: And because Monsters have a rule that states they can neither open, nor close a door. So by “opening it” you don’t have to worry about breaking that rule. (And because you only have a limit of 5 closed door models.)

Sometimes referred to in the Munchkin card game as “I kick open the door.”
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Re: Useless potion of alchemy

Postby Kurgan » November 11th, 2020, 10:08 pm

It must have been my friend(s) who told me, thinking of the common convention of selling stuff back to the armory/bank at half price in other games, or else they knew about the Quest packs! We had the GS, KK & ROTWL and always sold stuff back at half price between quests. The very notion of an "Armory" calls to mind a weapons shop. It would be exceptional to find a "weapon's shop" in an RPG game where you couldn't sell stuff back that you purchased for less than its list price. I have no doubt the 2021 remake will retain the sell-back rule, despite reverting to the card based "equipment" mechanic of the EU editions.

I think the EU heroes should be able to visit a blacksmith, who will melt down their unused equipment to forge it into something new and special... ;)

Breaking down the door is a cool idea, and no doubt about everything being revealed!

"Those doors are property of Zargon, Chaos & Co. if you open it without permission, he'll take it out of your hide!" *orcs and chaos warriors gulp nervously*


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