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Massive Darkness kickstarter

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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby QorDaq » Thursday June 9th, 2016 1:35pm

For myself, I have been eagerly anticipating this launch since it was announced on (ironically enough), April 1st... I think CMoN and GG have my number.

Anyway, I was waffling here and there as more details came out, and was concerned that I would not like the changes to the Zombicide ruleset that I love so much. However, since getting to see the game-play video I have since let go of my need for Massive Darkness (MD) to be the same as Zombicide. With that, a renewed sense of optimism has replaced all doubts and I am genuinely excited for this game. I also feel that overall, CMoN is handling this kickstarter project better than some of their older ones. Which means less interesting SGs with a lot of gaps so far (I think one of them was 80K!?), but promises to be a better chance of delivering on schedule this time around.

So yeah, happy about this KS and cannot wait to play the game (in a year)... So I'm in.

cornixt wrote:Why are half of the heroes looking at the ground? Did someone lose a contact lens?


Indeed, others have commented on this as well... I figure they are either tracking something (The contact lens theory is as good as any), or they are searching for traps--though personally, I find the ten-foot pole stratagem to be superior.

knightkrawler wrote:I want the Spider. And that's it, really.


The spider is indeed pretty cool looking, though I also like Lilliarch (The multi-armed Demon thing).

StratosVX wrote:Looks good, I just can't justify spending that much on a board game right now.


Understandable, there have been a lot of very interesting games competing for our collective [collector?] attention lately.

Anderas wrote:Just took a look at the advertisement video. It seems to be massively borrowed from Zombicide, no? Detail changes, yes, but then....

I have some time right now and will s3e if the gameplay video looks alike.


So yes, the premise here since the original announcement back in April, is that Guillotine Games (GG), deliberately built their Dungeon-crawling system off of inspiration from their work on the Zombicide engine. I suspect that community interest in seeing the Zombicide Black Plague game include non-zombie monsters, was a possible inspiration there.

That said, the game appears to be different enough that the games are not directly compatible, though community efforts will certainly change that.

Ragnar IronFist wrote:So what if one hasn't touched a game of zombicide...but has been curious about all it's hype and popularity. Would this perhaps be a worthy purchase instead of zombicide?

Edit: kinda hoping somebody talks me out of this (Talk me down! talk me down!) after splurging on Dungeon Saga:Dwarf King's Quest and all that...

Edit Edit: But dang this game looks pretty sexy. Love the skill tree cards and dashboards! (Talk me down, man! I gonna do it I swear!) Again, I've never even watched a gameplay vid on zombicide. Maybe just get that one instead?


Sorry, cannot in good conscience talk you (or anyone) down from this particular ledge. Primarily because the more pledges this gets the more stretch goals we'll get, and for me, this game will likely be my last (only really) "All-in" game of the year...*Chuckle*...

That said, Massive Darkness and Zombicide are actually, from what I have gathered and seen, fairly different games... Distant cousins perhaps, but different enough that it might be like comparing Hero Quest and Advanced Hero Quest, related yes, but not the same game at all.

Regardless, Zombicide (both Modern and Black Plague), are great games--if you can appreciate them for what they are; quick to play-ish, easy to teach and learn, monster slaying mayhem. There is very little depth but a fair amount of variety and a ton of replayability. If someone were only interested in jumping in on one, I'd suggest Black Plague as a smoother, better designed version of Zombicide, but they are all great. I suspect Massive Darkness will provide similar.

If you are on the fence I'd recommend going to your FLGS and seeing if anyone is playing Zcide of one flavor or another and sitting in on a game.

As to Massive Darkness, I cannot really recommend it because I have not yet played the game, however I can certainly encourage you to go ahead and take the jump... Off that edge... That you want me to talk you down from... Sorry.
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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby QorDaq » Thursday June 9th, 2016 1:57pm

Anderas wrote:Rather buy Zombicide. Much cleaner game table, no progression tree that hinders you, no hundreds of tokens.... really for a simple evening slaughterhouse Zombicide is better. And the models look like the same quality, roughly.


The only new tokens I noticed were the "Hide in Shadows" thing, the treasure, the columns, the artifacts, the tile levels (kind of like Spawn points), and the life counters? Zcide in contrast, has Doors and 1st player, (shares those), and of the doors there are nearly a dozen different types, Rotten, Free action (is that right? the one with the crown), objectives, barricades, tents, switches, holes, spawn points (of multiple types), spawn point numbers, event tokens, various vehicles (5 different cars) and a pretty nifty helicopter.

That is of course, accounting for the various expansions for Zcide Modern. But overall, I am inclined to say that Zcide may have more tokens, especially with the various types of doors and spawn points.

What struck me as significantly adding clutter to the table (though I don't actually mind it), is that there are no longer simply three card types, now there are 13 or 14, not including the extra class cards for each character.

So, I agree that the table looks more cluttered, since most of the tokens in Zcide are placed on the tiles, while the myriad Card Decks in MD are taking up additional real estate beyond tiles or character dashboards.

Not having played MD yet (obviously), I cannot say which game is better except to emphasize once more that, MD does not actually exist at this time, while Zcide is available and awesome!
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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby Anderas » Thursday June 9th, 2016 3:00pm

You're right, when you present it like that it was more the cluttered table that made me say something about tokens - whereas, it was the cards taking all the space!

Five piles of cards for the Monster Groups, five more for their weapons, and some then for the one or the other function. wow!
I guess that would be better as little Android App so that you don't have to set up the table and clean everything afterwads. Digital meets Boardgame.

I was fast forwarding the Gameplay Video to 1 hour now. They were advancing full four spaces in that time. Ok, they were explaining every little dice roll so maybe they were slow because of that, but nevertheless...


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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby QorDaq » Thursday June 9th, 2016 5:01pm

Anderas wrote:You're right, when you present it like that it was more the cluttered table that made me say something about tokens - whereas, it was the cards taking all the space!

Five piles of cards for the Monster Groups, five more for their weapons, and some then for the one or the other function. wow!
I guess that would be better as little Android App so that you don't have to set up the table and clean everything afterwads. Digital meets Boardgame.


Indeed on all points. As to the App idea, GG does have an App for Zcide Modern, not sure if there is any Black Plague support yet.

But, perhaps more exciting, is that there is now (on sale in fact) a Zombicide Season 1 DLC for Steam's Table Top Simulator. I really hope it does well enough to expand to later seasons and also Z:BP... I can certainly see MD going that route in time. But that's a different discussion.

Point being, all of these games benefit from a good App... If it's a good App. And GG does have a precedent for (slow but useful) App support.

Anderas wrote:I was fast forwarding the Gameplay Video to 1 hour now. They were advancing full four spaces in that time. Ok, they were explaining every little dice roll so maybe they were slow because of that, but nevertheless...


In my experience, The first couple games of Zcide move like that with new players as well--or they do if folks are bothered by getting the rules right. A lot of little mistakes seem to have been made in that video... Just saying...*Chuckle*...

Anyway, I won't know till I get my hands on the game, but I really don't expect that MD will normally take that long. Especially since most of the monster info is on the cards (little need to reference manuals), so once you get used to what the symbols mean, what the monster abilities are, etc. the pace may pick up. Or at least I surely hope so!!!

And as you mention above, an App to handle cards would go along way to addressing table clutter, but possibly speeding things up as well.

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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby Anderas » Tuesday June 14th, 2016 3:42pm

I am very sorry, Daedalus, but we don't only need Minotaurs as Bosses for Dungeons, we also need THE MINOTAUR as Monster for Dungeons.
Go look see


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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby QorDaq » Wednesday June 15th, 2016 12:04pm

Indeed, this thing is pretty BA, in my seriously less than humble opinion.

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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby cynthialee » Wednesday June 15th, 2016 2:46pm

Now that is a Minotaur I can see in an ancient Cretan maze...!

'The Minotaur' should be massively more bad a$$ than a basic issue minotaur.
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If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
~Sun Tsu The art of War~


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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby Anderas » Saturday June 18th, 2016 2:33am

I like that Minotaur Box. They have two Mobs inside (six models with shield and axe, twelve models with two handed sword),
three of the Mob´s special characters
and that Minotaur Fattie.

I don't understand the fine details behind the different boss types yet.
I just have to recognize that this box alone would have been a full Heroquest expansion when I was young. I like it.


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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby QorDaq » Saturday June 18th, 2016 5:43pm

Anderas wrote:...I don't understand the fine details behind the different boss types yet.
I just have to recognize that this box alone would have been a full Heroquest expansion when I was young. I like it.


Hiya, so if I may, the way the Monsters work in MD is as follows:

Monster Types - There are two general types of Monster, Guardians and Minions.

- Guardians include, Agents, Mob Bosses, and Roaming Monsters. All of these monsters will carry magic weapons that the players can snag off of their cold dead corpses... If they can turn them into such of course.

- Minions are the lackeys that travel in Mobs.

Unit types - There are three unit types in Massive Darkness, Agents, Mobs, and Roaming Monsters.

- Agent: A lone "actor/ model" which spawns in response to very specific situations such as certain special locations, or occasionally when a door card is drawn (I think). They are a little stronger than their typical Monster species (Orc, Dwarf, whatever). They carry a random magic weapon or item and at the end of every turn they summon reinforcements (in the form of additional Mobs).

- Mob: A group of a particular species of monster such as Orcs, Dwarves, etc. A Mob is lead by a Mob Boss of the same type which has the same stats as the Minions in the Mob. The number of Minions which spawn will be based on the number of Characters in the game (minimum number of Characters is 1), and the monster species spawned. Mob Bosses always carry a random magic item or weapon, and cannot be targeted until all of the minions in their Mob have been eliminated.

Mobs usually spawn in rooms when a door is opened for the first time, but may also be summoned by Agents.

- Roaming Monster: A solitary (generally huge-sized) creature who wanders the dungeon in search of interlopers. They typically spawn in response to special circumstances such as drawing a Mob card and not having sufficient models to field the unit. They also carry a random piece of Magic gear. These creatures are VERY dangerous.

Hope that helps?
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Re: Massive Darkness kickstarter

Postby Ragnar IronFist » Thursday June 23rd, 2016 4:55pm

So if I were to score a zombicide instead of jumping on this kickstarter... should I go with the first, or the black plague?
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