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My first mod

PostPosted: Saturday April 16th, 2016 5:27pm
by lucasdp
The time has come: I'm upping my level of commitment to HeroQuest into painting and modding. Picked up some paint and some tiny brushes and a razor saw, and ordered some bases from Zealot. |_P Starting with a relatively simple one here: let's get my girlfriend's favorite elf off of her awkward, clunky base, and onto something that fits in better with HeroQuest!
Image

What's the best glue for putting a Reaper Bones mini on a Zealot base? Rubber cement? Just a decent superglue?

Then I think she's gonna get spray-painted a good "hero red" :lol: as per this thread viewtopic.php?f=193&t=1963

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Sunday April 17th, 2016 12:40am
by Anderas
That Base is wonderful, but i see that it doesn't fit with the rest.

The normal superglue is likely the only one to work on these materials. That's not good because "superglue" leans to losen after a while - two or three years later, it just falls apart and i don't know why.

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Sunday April 17th, 2016 1:15am
by knightkrawler
Plastic Cement for bonding plastic with plastic. This literally melts two parts into one.
Superglue w/ pins for bonding metal to metal or metal to resin. If the joint gives you space for a pin of at least 1 mm in each part, then use it.
Superglue for bonding resin to resin. No pins here, becaues if it breaks you want a smooth cut to just glue it back in place again.

Your case there, PVC to resin, is the most intricate and unnerving one. I would use superglue w/ pins. Drilling these parts is especially easy, so I would utilize that.
It's a huge surface, so you might just as well use it as your training ground for pinning. You could also additionally use green stuff between the two materials and then go around the edges with white glue and debris/gravel/sand.

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Sunday April 17th, 2016 7:56am
by whitebeard
When you snap the next picture, can you put the HQ barbarian next to it so we can see the scale?

I really like a lot of the Reaper models, this one included. But as of now, I will only order non HQ monsters because the scale is off by too much. Reaper does not enforce a standard so many of the models are ridiculously tall (there is a thread with dozens of pictures from the first Bones Kickstarter showing exactly this). If it is not towering over the others, I will grab it in my next order. Thanks!

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Sunday April 17th, 2016 8:45am
by knightkrawler
whitebeard wrote:When you snap the next picture, can you put the HQ barbarian next to it so we can see the scale?

I really like a lot of the Reaper models, this one included. But as of now, I will only order non HQ monsters because the scale is off by too much. Reaper does not enforce a standard so many of the models are ridiculously tall (there is a thread with dozens of pictures from the first Bones Kickstarter showing exactly this). If it is not towering over the others, I will grab it in my next order. Thanks!


What makes me wonder about that reasoning is, why care about scale when the style are so different?
I'm not trying to criticize anyone here, I merely want to say to me the style is much more important than how sizes fit.
I refit my background world to accomodate for different human races where one is pretty tall (30-32mm figures) and the other simply shorter and more frail in build (25-28mm). I did away with the Elf race as such and made room for genetical and magical differentiation.
HQ figures and most GW minis do not satisfy my taste anymore and are out of the picture. I will, however, include anything I like, which means basically a certain level of detail, without taking a care if the figure is smaller (Red Box Zombie) than the other (Confrontaion). My Goblins are tiny (Red Box; half as tall as a GW Skaven which is my second smallest basic humanoid monster type), but they fit my miniature set in style (level of detail). A HeroQuest Goblin does not because of my choice of style.

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Sunday April 17th, 2016 9:59pm
by whitebeard
knightkrawler wrote:What makes me wonder about that reasoning is, why care about scale when the style are so different?


I assume by "style" you are referring to:
(1) detail level
(2) heroic head / hand size (Large head / hands are common in early GW and thus in HQ)
(3) dynamic pose versus static
(4) the base. (possibly)


So my response is then:
(1) I actually prefer the modern higher detail (it makes painting eyes MUCH easier when they actually make it out of the mold with this detail). I find that once you paint them well, the differences in level of detail are mitigated to an extent. I just painted the HQ wizard, with the crescent moon, stars, and blue trim (I'm quite proud of how it turned out, except the eyes of course). So LOD is there on this model and many others. And I've gotten a lot better at painting thanks very much to you KK and others.

(2) I also prefer the more "realistic" body proportions. Before painting, I was trying to replace EVERYTHING that I could find with "cooler" individualized and "modern" models. It takes a relatively long time to paint, so I wanted to invest in the "right" mini before I started. I replaced the heroes immediately, and they are all Reaper minis except the dwarf (my avatar on the right with the mug of ale is GW). Across my heroes the scale is pretty uniform and closely matches the original HQ heights (I got very lucky with the elf and wizard and I did not even know it). Initially I was upset that my barbarian is like 7 feet tall, but I came to the conclusion quickly that this was actually cool. I got a second barbarian and he is even thicker and taller and we've never used him. The monsters' heroic body proportions do not matter so much. I failed to find cooler orcs and goblins (although I love the gnoblar mash-up!!! and the classic GW orcs, the new GW orcs and GW goblins don't come close for me)... but I did grab the GW Chaos Warriors and Skeleton Warriors. I have not painted the skeleton warriors yet, and it seems to be no trouble to overlook the proportionality of the original HQ undead (I have painted all of those and I try very hard to play only with painted minis now).

(3) Dynamic mixed with static poses does not bother me. My elf has his bow drawn (and sword at hip), my wizard is casting, the barbarian looks like he's listening for something that he may then strike blindly at, and well... the dwarf is toasting to his next victim! The Skeletons are charging, the Chaos Warriors are slowly advancing... The original Chaos Sorcerer is perhaps actively casting. I have no issues with the pose in this post though it is slightly more dynamic. I would buy it in metal (because I am unable to effectively paint the Bones minis). Maybe I'll get a saw, free it from the base and straighten the leg. I've done bigger mods than that with reasonable success.

(4) If I had the time, all of my figures would use classic fantasy square beveled bases. I paint all of my bases as gray stone (two or three different shades of gray then a white or bone dry-brush in spots (sometimes not so dry) and I get a reasonable stone slab appearance. The HQ and GW bases make it look like the monsters are standing on a single dungeon tile, but this scheme without overt references to the tile setting (seams, joints, and cracks) also works well outdoors (i.e. with my dark forest board setting). I have additional figures like the GW "Wight King" who we used as the Witch Lord, which have more unique base features, but the stone is always in the neighborhood of the same color. I mounted 2 of the 3 Reaper heroes to GW bases (Elf and Wizard) which helps for stability. Rather than cut them free, I piled on green stuff to make a raised flat surface and again with the same stone paint scheme, it looks "good". I left the tall barbarian on his massive base. The muted dark stone base seems to put all the emphasis on the brighter colors of the model, even though my minis tend to be very dark (I feel a quote from "The Lego Movie" Batman coming on).


In the beginning my searches were about style AND scale. Perhaps as an "engineer personality" I simply prioritize scale first? I'm surprised you don't also do this as a German :D I painted the HQ wizard to be the villain "Alekai The Omniscient" (in the Perfect Vision thread I posted to yesterday), as he is basically a low skill wizard who has found the Amulet of Foresight. This was a figure I had, I saw so many cool paint jobs on the site here, and I was eager to try so I went with it. And there I am, all done and I show it to my 9 year old son, who has my same mind and annoying personality traits, so it's basically asking myself for an independent assessment... And what does he say? Not "Wow, cool paint job Dad!"... He says "He looks funny because his head is too big."!!! :oops: If he were too tall or short, I'm 100% sure that would have been the first comment and followed immediately by the head being too big, because that's how I see it too. You are completely right the style is different. My game has moved away from original figures and this is MOST apparent in the heroes we use. But who does not love an original hero painted to match his hero card? Other than my son? And for the record, I actually I think you need Ampersand's barbarian if you want to come close to matching his hero card. I just cannot see any resemblance, although there are several excellent paint jobs posted on this site.

So... If the scale fits, I want this one! I think I need some female heroes. We had female player stand in for part of the last quest. No hurry, just put the barbarian, elf or wizard in the next shot, please.

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Wednesday April 20th, 2016 10:20pm
by lucasdp
Anderas wrote:That Base is wonderful, but i see that it doesn't fit with the rest.

The normal superglue is likely the only one to work on these materials. That's not good because "superglue" leans to losen after a while - two or three years later, it just falls apart and i don't know why.

Yeah, her base is pretty cool in its own right, but this mini is basically dedicated to HQ at this point and all that extra plastic has been knocking over doors and orcs for the last few games. :lol: If superglue will hold for two years, that's great! I was just trying to avoid something I would have to re-do in two weeks.

Whitebeard, as requested, here she is with her male counterpart and the barbarian :) as well as some of the larger chunks removed her base. See all that unnecessary plastic under there?!
Image

She definitely doesn't have the heroic head/hands you're talking about |_P but other than that, she's pretty close to HQ scale in my opinion. The only reason she might be "towering over" them is because the base! ;) I believe Reaper lists her as a "Half-Elf Rogue" if you're looking to pick one up.

knightkrawler wrote:Plastic Cement for bonding plastic with plastic. This literally melts two parts into one.
Superglue w/ pins for bonding metal to metal or metal to resin. If the joint gives you space for a pin of at least 1 mm in each part, then use it.
Superglue for bonding resin to resin. No pins here, becaues if it breaks you want a smooth cut to just glue it back in place again.

Your case there, PVC to resin, is the most intricate and unnerving one. I would use superglue w/ pins. Drilling these parts is especially easy, so I would utilize that.
It's a huge surface, so you might just as well use it as your training ground for pinning. You could also additionally use green stuff between the two materials and then go around the edges with white glue and debris/gravel/sand.

Thanks for the breakdown, KK! |_P I was nervous about drilling, but I've got a buddy with tools and experience who will probably give me a hand.

Well, now I have to ask, what minis work on Zealot bases? At the moment, all my female HQ heroes are Reaper Bones and I was kinda hoping to put the others on these bases as well...

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Thursday April 21st, 2016 4:30am
by knightkrawler
lucasdp wrote:Well, now I have to ask, what minis work on Zealot bases? At the moment, all my female HQ heroes are Reaper Bones and I was kinda hoping to put the others on these bases as well...


Are you asking because of the material? You can put all of them on Zealot bases (which are resin).
However, it's more difficult to pin them (absolutely necessary for metal miniatures) because their bottom is flat. You need to take care of the pins not sticking out at the bottom and scratching your gaming surfaces. Milling some recesses before pinning and then being able to cut the pins more thoroughly might be one possibility, but I've never done it.

Bones on Zealot (BoZ; doesn't that sound cool...) I would simply try without pinning at first. Just superglue, to see how well it holds up. It should, because the PVC miniatures themselves are so light. If they break, re-gluing is easy enough.

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Thursday April 21st, 2016 4:36am
by slev
KK has the same method I'd use. However, I would also mention this handy trick:

green-stuff the two halves together & let it cure for 24 hours.

Then, pull it appart. This will pull the PVC free of the bond. Superglue it back (ideally with think superglue such as warglue or citadel thin).

Then you can pin it. Drill through the base from the bottom, then smooth off the sppature.
I recomend a 0.5mm drill bit and a brass paperclip, cut 1mm short.
Run a drp of thin superglue into the hole and press teh into it, using another bit of pin, or some such, to push the pin past the appature.
You can then greenstuff over the hole at the bottom of the base too!

Re: My first mod

PostPosted: Thursday April 21st, 2016 6:16am
by knightkrawler
Aaah, that's nice, too.
I also recommend Vallejo Plastic Putty in the small bottle for these rough fill-out purposes.