Battle Masters: Half Baked Heroics

[Kurgan]

I know some have already attempted this and other variants are already out there.

Here are "my" ideas of how it would work to integrate parts from HQ into BM (instead of the other way around as many have also done already). Someone has probably already thought of these and can point out any issues...


And this has obviously not been playtested yet, heck I haven't even played the real game yet! But I'm still thinking of how it might work.

I do like the idea that some units will be carrying treasure chests and these could be captured by another unit destroying them.
I also like the idea of capturing enemy units somehow and forcing the other side to ransom them back, or hire mercenaries for additional units, but that part isn't well thought out yet.

So the Four Heroes would be able to join the battle. Perhaps having all four of them on the battlefield at once would be too powerful, unless the bad guys also had four evil "heroes" on their side as well (perhaps the Wizards of Morcar). But even having one Hero on the Imperial side and one Chaos Warlock on the Chaos side would be cool.

Unit substitutions might be in order. I would love the idea of putting in Dwarven and Elven units, but I'm not made of money, I don't have access to a 3d printer yet, so maybe start small here. Even subbing in 3 Fimirs per base in place of the Beastmen would be cool even if their stats were identical.

"round" would mean by the next enemy card draw

Each Hero may individually "tag along" (or piggy back) with another friendly Imperial unit (except the Mighty Cannon) (Idea freely stolen from the first person who posted it over at boardgamegeek, sorry I forget your name)

Each hero should choose a unit at the beginning of the campaign. Should they wish to change units, they may only do so on their
unit's turn to an adjacent friendly unit as a free action. Their bonuses then are transferred from the old to the new unit, but damage does not (presumably they weren't the one who was injured). This means though that if the unit is down to its last body point, they can't leave, because that implies that unit is "dead" without the bonus.

Adding a Hero confers certain benefits. Here we presume these are veteran heroes, so they are more adept at magic, and are battle hardened.

Barbarian - adds 2 BP and 1 extra attack die to the unit. May re-roll up to 3 dice.

Dwarf - adds 2 BP and 1 extra attack die to the unit. May re-roll up to 2 dice.

Elf - adds 2 BP and 1 extra attack die to the unit and may use spells (skills), three of them.

Wizard (Alchemist) - adds 1 BP to the unit and ability to use spells (skills).
Spells may be cast on the Wizard's own unit, or another unit that is up to 3 hexes away (doesn't have to be strict LOS, so it can go "over" another unit). Gets the choice of 9 spells.

Ball of Flame (2 BP damage; target rolls 2 BM dice, damage negated for each blank rolled in defense).
Fire of Wrath (same as above but 1 BP damage, 1 BM die)
Courage (Wizard's unit or adjacent unit gains 2 extra combat dice in attack for as long as it is adjacent or in range, as in the case of ranged units, of an enemy target) -begins the next time that unit is able to attack

Water of Healing (targeted unit regains up to 4 lost Body Points). Brings Wizard's unit back if it is destroyed and spell not yet used.
Sleep (target must roll one BM die for each of its Max body points immediately and on future turns, if a shield is rolled, the unit recovers; if not it cannot move, attack or defend itself until the spell is broken)
Veil of Mist (affected unit may safely pass through another unit if it has the movement available to do so) (would only apply if they have the charge going) - alternately, the unit would not be target-able by the enemy on the next round only.


Tempest: the affected unit loses a turn (ignore next card for that unit)
Swift Wind: affected unit is able to double its movement (2 or 4 squares in the case of charge)
Genie: attack unit up to 3 hexes away with 5 BM dice (defends as normal)

Rock Skin: affected unit gets 1 extra defend Die until it sustains at least one BP of damage
Heal Body: restores up to 4 lost BP to a single unit (or brings your own unit back if you die)
Pass through Rock: allow unit to pass through a hedge barrier or fortification on your next move (if there is room on the other side and in the case of the tower, if it is unoccupied)

Not sure how the WOM spells would work, although a few would be easily adaptable like Arrows of Night if treated as a ranged 2 dice attack

elf spells?
twist wood (turns archers into melee units; ruins lances? 1 less attack die for knights)
haven't thought about the rest

Chaos Sorcerer and Wizards of Morcar are evil "Heroes" who can piggy back on friendly units (except the Ogre Champion)
They each add 1 BP to the unit and the ability to use spells.

Perhaps to make it more fair, if the Wizard or Elf plays, there should be two of them on the enemy side instead of just one?

Chaos spells

Ball of Flame (same as above)
Tempest (same as above)

Escape (teleport the unit to another square on the battlefield adjacent to any other friendly unit)
Rust (reduces a sword using unit to 1 attack die OR or reduces helmet having unit's defense by 1)

Command (take control of an enemy unit and may move it when that card comes up unless they break free)

Fear (reduces unit to 1 attack die until they break free)

Firestorm (hit one area of four adjacent hexes up to three hexes away; all within it EXCEPT the casting unit, roll 2 dice, for each blank, damage is reduced by 1 point but each are guaranteed 1 BP damage)
Lightning (shoot in a straight line bolt that travels three hexes and every unit in the path takes 2 BP damage)
Cloud of Chaos (sleeps all enemy units in a four adjacent hex area up to three hexes away)

Summon Undead: brings in undead reinforcements to adjacent hex
skull = 1 skeleton unit
blank = 1 skeleton and 1 zombie unit
shield = 1 skeleton, 1 zombie and 1 mummy unit
(here you would need ROTWL to have enough undead figures)

Summon Orcs: brings in orc reinforcements to adjacent hex
skull = 1 orc unit
blank = 2 orc units
shield = 3 orc units
(you'd need KK to have enough orcs)

Undead stats:
5 skeletons: attack 2/defend 2
5 zombies: attack 2/defend 3
5 mummies: attack 3/defend 4

undead not affected by sleep spells BUT chaos sorcerer can be put to sleep, meaning he can't use spells again until freed
(they carry him along and protect him, but if entire unit dies, he dies too)

other chaos magic?

Ogre Mercenary
(regular ogre on a platform) 3 BP, 3 Ogre cards (reduces to 2 and then 1 then destroyed)

[Kurgan]

Seeing that the Chaos War Band reinforcements pack already had Ogre Mercenaries that had a rating of "4" (BP unknown). The others are Beastmen raiders with 3 and Chaos Lords with 5.

Imperial reinforcements include Imperial Lords with 5, Imperial Knights with 4, Archers/Crossbowmen with 3.

[lestodante]

I never played Battle Master unfortunately, neither Warhammer (shame on me), but I guess BM is a simple version of WH.
In WH they have rules when you add a special character to a unit, increasing the unit stats. As told before, I dint play them so I am not an expert but I read a Chaos Sorcerer flyer times ago and it was explaining what bonuses are added to the unit when a Chaos Sorcerer is supportig them.
For sure similar rules are applied to the Heroes, so maybe if you can find a WH rules boook you can have lot of inspiration from it.

[Kurgan]

Yeah I'm not sure whether it's better to consider Heroes to be superhuman super units or treat them as mere bonus modifiers for existing units here. After all the Barbarian has 8 body points in HQ, but in BM, everybody has 3 BP (except the Ogre Champion who has 6 and his abilities diminish based on his BP total)... but those "3 body points" account for a unit that consists of 3-5 characters. It matches more closely the "mercenaries" (men at arms) found in the HQ quest packs, where these characters have only 1 BP (which is typical of the EU standard).

So while BM is pretty much the same game between the EU and NA versions (unlike HQ which varies widely between regions), in the NA HQ, mercs have 2 BP.

So if we treat the Heroes like mercs, they would only add 1-2 BP to a unit, but perhaps give it some other special ability. Otherwise you might as well just let the four heroes take on an entire Army, which would get a bit ridiculous. While these are legendary fighters, they're not gods. Should the Barbarian really be as strong as nearly three units of cavalry? I could imagine a single hero being the equal of three normal foot soldiers, so it's not an exact translation.

The Wizard hero is physically weak, but he's still as powerful (in terms of BP) as 2 NA mercs (or 4 EU mercs), yet I could see keeping him as a weak unit but granting his magic ability to the unit as a good bonus.

The heroes on the battlefield to me would be more well equipped than in the dungeon. They are special forces, but here they would be wearing as much armor as they can and be more uniform with the regular troops, so they lose a little of their uniqueness. The good guys would have a huge advantage with so many heroes so maybe one at a time or else give the Chaos side more sorcerers to compensate.

Perhaps the Heroes could be super units in the vein of Star Wars Battlefront (which I know more than Battlefield video games), where you can unlock them and they can do limited things and then they are removed, so they don't dominate the battlefield. Making them as a command character, that "leads" seems a little neater to me.

Then again, you could play Battlemasters with a number of cannons on one side and a number of Ogres on the other side (using reinforcements). These battles would just go on a lot longer (in theory, unless you get some really lucky shots with the cannon, or really lucky card draw order).

Whatever one does, my philosophy is to incorporate as much of the original game as possible without adding too much extra complexity and thus lose the charm of the simplicity in the first place.

As for BattleMasters, I own it now and have read over the rules a few times, so I think I understand it but as far as playtesting any of this, it's anyone's guess how well my half baked additions will work.

I guess for the moment I'm thinking using them as bonuses is what I want to try.

[Cael Darkhollow]

Here are "my" ideas of how it would work to integrate parts from HQ into BM (instead of the other way around as many have also done already). Someone has probably already thought of these and can point out any issues...
I do like the idea that some units will be carrying treasure chests and these could be captured by another unit destroying them.
I also like the idea of capturing enemy units somehow and forcing the other side to ransom them back, or hire mercenaries for additional units, but that part isn't well thought out yet.

So the Four Heroes would be able to join the battle. Perhaps having all four of them on the battlefield at once would be too powerful, unless the bad guys also had four evil "heroes" on their side as well (perhaps the Wizards of Morcar). But even having one Hero on the Imperial side and one Chaos Warlock on the Chaos side would be cool.

As I have all the battlemasters, heroquest, warhammer, Warhammer Quest and advanced heroquest sets that came out, I often mix and match during my personal use. It's all the GW old world to me. HeroQuest is far easier to add to custom rules wise and still have it play like a board game as intended or even just use it as a 3D representation of Warhammer Roleplay or D&D, but with Battlemasters on the other hand besides adding more Battlemasters to make bigger longer grander games, if you start adding new types of units and custom rules you seriously undermine the game rules and just end up trying to reinvent the Warhammer Fantasy Battle tabletop game, rather than actually playing bigger better BattleMasters (custom cards would be needed in the deck, balance issues would worsen, etc.)

Ultimately it is much much easier to just play Warhammer with Battlemasters figures (poor mans warhammer; most of my early WH armies were BM, HQ and Darkworld board game conversions.)
They already have a very detailed, well thought out, play tested, large scale battle miniatures game with all of the monsters in that game world and rules for equipment, heroes, magic etc. that basically works (some editions better than others) and it doesn't matter which miniatures are used, plus many of the scenarios you envision such as ransom and treasure chest raiding are printed, so why reinvent the wheel? perhaps work on a personal version of the wheel you like better but don't start from scratch on game design.

Battlemasters is a pretty simple rules wise fun game with a hoard of awesome miniatures but it would be tough to add any totally new stuff to. Very quickly you aren't playing Battlemasters anymore but an unwieldy Frankenstein's monster.
In complexity Battlemasters is checkers, Warhammer is chess. Keep it simple.
Heroquest is a single night of D&D concept intro or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay for newcomers, but it doesn't ever have to evolve beyond a board game, while anything involving serious character development, custom add ons etc. for HQ just becomes RPG style play (D&D or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) using HeroQuest as visual representation. Advanced HeroQuest and Warhammer Quest are already basically just that lite and WFRP is the whole hog. I occasionally use custom tiles and figures borrowed from other games in my HQ and I drew up my own armory but I didn't want to make it an RPG so let it be at that. It is a board game. I have lots of actual D&D or WHFRP if I want to do that style of more detailed play.
Battlemasters is a fun game to introduce your friends to tabletop style whole armies grand combat play, but it really is just an intro to Warhammer, (or a simple game on it's own for non war gamer types) as I am certain it was always intended in game design and marketing.
I do use HeroQuest, Advanced HeroQuest, Warhammer Quest to represent what happens to heroes or individuals in a continuing story rather than whole armies clashing, basically roleplaying in the Old World but using the individual simpler game rules rather than Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay rules, and I use Warhammer Fantasy Battle and BattleMasters to represent the ongoing over all war story wise. I just use whatever rules for whichever game I am using to tell the story rather than attempting conversions of custom rules to encompass everything. HQ stats are practically the same as WH stats anyway.
I also use HeroQuest and Battlemasters as just boardgames as they are intended for a night of fun for any non serious gamers I can talk into playing them.

In the first three Warhammer editions they had baggage trains and camp followers that allowed you to attack behind enemy lines hitting or capturing the enemy payroll treasure chests, camp tents, food supply, reserves, etc. Also at that point mercenaries or ally army factions were a bigger deal too so ransoms and treasure raids were common scenarios between various groups represented on the tabletop. Nothing makes a halfling unit more angry than losing their baggage train and food supply!
In 4th edition Warhammer on, the streamlined straight out of the box game became more about single session battles for a victory for tournament style play where anyone could buy an army of a certain point size and play against anyone else with the same point size army for a supposedly fair fight, and less about campaigning or RPG style realism that was the hallmark of early Warhammer (well where are the enemy camp and tents? Did the general leave them unprotected? What happens to the army if we attack the baggage train? Does the orc village have a latrine and is that difficult or uncrossable movement ground?)