Q1: "The Man Undercover" by TMU & MrBigB

[j_dean80]

The groggy start is a cool thematic idea though, since it implies a previous bout of heroic drinking.

This again may stray from simplicity, but what about each of the Heroes starting the Quest with a hangover and 1 less Body Point? I think the Heroes can risk this as the monster challenge isn't too high. The first Hero to search for treasure in the nearby kitchen would discover enough stew to restore the missing Body Point to each Hero.

Each Hero starts with 1 less BP due to a hangover. Each Hero rolls the number of red dice equal to their BP at the start of each turn. If a 6 is rolled their hangover ends. The first Hero to enter the Kitchen finds stew for an instant cure.

[Daedalus]

Ha! Your idea would be a drag, but that is pretty much what a hangover is.

I (heavily) reworked a post that had been lost in the Inn fire:

I like the discount method myself, but being Quest 1 I'm not sure they'd have enough coins to buy anything.

Choice 1: Not everybody would agree it's okay for Heroes to sell back their starting weapons, or even sell back anything. If we want the Blacksmith to only offer a 50% discount, then I agree more gold coin treasure is called for than that which is gotten by rescuing villagers. I'd recommend adding a secret door and an undiscovered chest containing 100 gold coins to a room behind the empty chest.

Choice 2: Four more villagers could instead be added in. Each rescue would earn 25 gold coins. Like that chest reward, it would be used with a discount only--no weapons would be sold to the Armory.

If starting weapons aren't to be sold back in this Quest, we either:

1. don't include an equipment-selling rule for the Quest Pack
2. modify the BQP/EQP selling rule to prohibit starting weapons
3. allow the BQP/EQP selling rule but restrict the Blacksmith to a discount only for this Quest

Choice 3:If we decide to include the equipment-selling rule from the EQP and BQP as written, the Dwarf and Elf can sell their shortswords for 75 gold coins each. With a 50% Blacksmith discount, two spears can be bought. That's 300 gold coins of treasure value without rescuing a single villager. If anything, the Quest may be too generous with a discount. Still, it works better than allowing battle axes as the new weapons. I'd even drop the villagers if the discount were guaranteed.

Choice 4:However, my preference is to keep the villager rewards in with the conditional discount dependent on the Heroes' actions. If each rescue pays 25 gold coins (forget the previously mentioned 2d6x5 amount), that could very well be 50 gold coins, or even 75 if they are lucky or burn spells. That's a generous 150-225 gold coin reward altogether with selling of the Dwarf's and Elf's shortswords. "Good" Heroes (no Treasure Cards looted) further double this to 300-450 gold coins through the purchasing power of the Blacksmith's discount. It certainly pays to be good in this Quest if equipment may be sold . . . apparently too much.

Then there are extra treasure searches the Heroes may decide they want. If the Treasure Cards are looted until the bad/good ratio reaches 2:1, somewhere around 150 gold coins is added in. Unless a black shield is rolled, the 50%-off discount doubles this to an extra 300 gold coins--too much. Screw the die roll per card, I now think the discount needs to be revoked if any Treasure Cards are used to purchase equipment.

While it might be okay for equipment to be sold back to the Armory for half-price, it makes less sense in this Quest when combined with the discount; I'd recommend not allowing starting equipment to be sold to the Blacksmith. After looking at the numbers, I now think choice 1 or 2 is likely the best option for an introductory Quest.

[Anderas]

I didn't find the most recent quest notes anywhere in this thread. I guess they disappeared somehow during multiple editing.

I try to make them up from what I read here in the comments, to have one complete current status for this quest. The clean up session took two hours, that's a bit much; and I am not sure of having catched everything. It'd be better having one set of text that is edited instead disparate comments - You're never sure what's the latest status.

I am currently re-questimating the new layout, just to see if something has changed. By the way, for questimating it's always helpful to have the xml file directly; the questimator can import the xml. So with xml, it takes 3 minutes, without rather half an hour because you put everything inside manually.

TMU, Jdean, Daedalus, if I overlooked anything... as always, just quote and correct.

Several people were asking why we don't call it "Ye Olde Inn", so I was calling it now "Ye Olde Inn".

Daedalus, I was going with your Choice 4. Preserving a slow ramp up to allow for a 3-Dice-Quest in Q9, Q10, Q11, I would go for 25 gold per villager plus conditional Blacksmith discount. I put that version (including selling your starting weapons) into Mohawk's google spreadsheet, too. However, I agree with you that 50% discount together with selling equipment is quite strong, so maybe it's rather 20% discount? That would give us: selling shortswords @50% (225), plus saving 3 villagers (+75 gold = 300) plus 25% discount of blacksmith (--> equal to having 400 gold) to buy three weapons. Really, that's not a lot! Selling 1 short sword plus all the villager's gold would give you 150, with Blacksmith 25% discount that equals to 200 gold to spend on one single weapon; or you use it directly and can buy a shield.

Finally, I would say that the Blacksmith indeed has a Weapon at hand, so he may have 2 Attack dice.



Recommended equipment: 1.7 dice (1 die AT and DE: Equal to the Trial(!). 2 dice AT and DE: Walk in the Park)

Quest 1 (Prelude to Chaos I)
Ye Olde Inn

Awaken from your drunken stupor. The Empire is in need of your aid. You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome has foretold of your great futures. Rid the small village of the raiders and then I will further guide you.

Notes: The Heroes start with no weapons or armor. The village law states it is to be kept at the Village Armory during their stay. The Heroes are allowed one combat die to Attack and two for defense.

A: The Heroes start in one Bed Room each.
B: This is the Blacksmith. His stats are as follows:
Move 2 Attack 2 Defense 2 Body 2 Mind 2

If the heroes fail to kill the orcs, they will attack the Blacksmith. If Blacksmith is killed, the heroes can search for their starting weapons. If he survives, he will give the heroes their weapons. If the heroes don't search for treasure, they will additionally receive a discount of 25% after the quest is finished.

C: Those villagers can be saved like the Blacksmith. Each one will give the heroes 25 gold out of gratitude for their rescue, if they survive. They have the following stats:
Move 2, Attack 1, Defense 2, Body 2, Mind 2

D: Use temple tile. The Fimir has Ball of Flame and Tempest (I would prefer swamp spells or Mind Control - just my opinion, what do you think?)

E: This is a villager like the others. The Chest has already been raided by the attackers.

F: Inside this cupboard is a Potion of Healing. When taken, this Potion will heal up to four lost Body Points.

Wandering Monster: Goblin

[wallydubbs]

Please tell me if I'm overstepping my bounds but I'd like to make a suggestion. Might it be possible to make a tile that represents a kitchen for the inn, where heroes might find knives they can throw at the monsters.

Perhaps you can allow the Wizard a unique ability where he can enchant said knives (at the cost of 1 spell per knife) to give one the same effect as a Magical Throwing Dagger.

[Anderas]

You're not overstepping at all! Any person participating is highly welcome. If anything, we're not entirely enough to end this.

I personally think the idea to find knifes in the kitchen great.

[j_dean80]

The Fimir has Ball of Flame and Tempest (I would prefer swamp spells or Mind Control - just my opinion, what do you think?)

What about Insect Swarm and Slime? They would be similar effects.

[Daedalus]

I didn't find the most recent quest notes anywhere in this thread. I guess they disappeared somehow during multiple editing. . .
.

Thanks for taking this up again.

. . . Daedalus, I was going with your Choice 4. Preserving a slow ramp up to allow for a 3-Dice-Quest in Q9, Q10, Q11, I would go for 25 gold per villager plus conditional Blacksmith discount. I put that version (including selling your starting weapons) into Mohawk's google spreadsheet, too. However, I agree with you that 50% discount together with selling equipment is quite strong, so maybe it's rather 20% discount? That would give us: selling shortswords @50% (225), plus saving 3 villagers (+75 gold = 300) plus 25% discount of blacksmith (--> equal to having 400 gold) to buy three weapons. Really, that's not a lot! Selling 1 short sword plus all the villager's gold would give you 150, with Blacksmith 25% discount that equals to 200 gold to spend on one single weapon; or you use it directly and can buy a shield.

The NA game figures a bit differently. The Heroes can sell two shortswords and a broadsword for 275 gold coins, + 75 for three villagers = 350 gold coins. With a 25% discount, the Barbarian could upgrade to a battle axe for 338 gold coins, but that doesn't leave enough for the Elf and Dwarf to buy any upgrades. The greatest option without a downgrade comes from raising 225 gold coins from two shortswords and saving three villagers. That is just enough the get two spears at a 25% discount.

I like the sound of that, but why wouldn't the Heroes instead loot the town with treasure searches? Even though that would cancel the 25% discount, they could probably exceed the 75-gold-coin discount and find a few potions, as well. I prefer the discount to be the better option, as it represents a more heroic reward. For that reason alone, I'd go with a 50% discount.

Beyond that, I'd avoid anything requiring more than dividing by half to find the discount. Hero Quest doesn't like tables or calculations. Another limit might be simpler. How about the blacksmith only discounts one piece of equipment at 50%? That would be enough for a broadsword and a dagger (if 1 shortsword were sold), a couple of spears (if 2 shortswords were sold), or a shield/helmet (if no weapons were sold.) That seems right to me.

Finally, I would say that the Blacksmith indeed has a Weapon at hand, so he may have 2 Attack dice.

Okay. Everybody seems to want that.

Next, my edit suggestions (NA format) and comments.

Recommended equipment: 1.7 dice (1 die AT and DE: Equal to the Trial(!). 2 dice AT and DE: Walk in the Park)

Quest 1 (Prelude to Chaos I)
Ye Olde Inn

Awaken from your drunken stupor. The Empire is in need of your aid. You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome has foretold of your great futures. Rid the small village of the raiders and then I will further guide you.

It may be just me, but a drunken stupor comes off as kinda harsh. Yeah, this is me saying this after I had gone with "a bout of heroic drinking." Since the hangover penalty has been cut out (simplification is good), I came up with a more open-ended first sentence.

On more practical concern, mention of the exit should be included as part of the end condition of the Parchment Text. I also feel a hint about not looting the villager's possessions is in order to keep open the opportunity of getting the blacksmith discount.

Rouse yourselves, for the Empire is in need of your aid! You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome foretells of your greater destinies. Rid this small village of its raiders, securing the people and their belongings. Then depart in search of the marauders' base.

Notes: The Heroes start with no weapons or armor. The village law states it is to be kept at the Village Armory during their stay. The Heroes are allowed one combat die to Attack and two for defense.

Notes:

The Heroes start with no weapons. Tell the Heroes that village law requires them to be kept at the village armory during their stay. Heroes without equipment roll one Combat Die to attack and two to defend.

A: The Heroes start in one Bed Room each.

A: Use the Inn tile. Tell the Heroes they begin here, in one bedroom each. [The first Hero to search for treasure in the kitchen will find two knives that can serve as daggers.]

The last part about the knives was a nice suggestion, but it may be dropped. If this note is kept, the bedrooms should be labeled "A" and the kitchen should be labeled "B" with the knives mentioned in its own note. Other rooms would then have their letters bumped.

B: This is the Blacksmith. His stats are as follows:
Move 2 Attack 2 Defense 2 Body 2 Mind 2

If the heroes fail to kill the orcs, they will attack the Blacksmith. If Blacksmith is killed, the heroes can search for their starting weapons. If he survives, he will give the heroes their weapons. If the heroes don't search for treasure, they will additionally receive a discount of 25% after the quest is finished.

B: This is the armory. The Blacksmith stands on the space marked "B." Use the Chaos Sorcerer to represent him. The Blacksmith is controlled by the first Hero to enter, after the last Hero's turn. [The Blacksmith won't leave this room.] His stats are as follows:

Move 2 Attack 2 Defense 2 Body 2 Mind 2

Tell the Heroes the Orcs are attacking a blacksmith. The first Hero to search for treasure will find their weapons on the weapons rack. If the Blacksmith survives to the end of the Quest, the Heroes will also be offered one item of equipment at half price, but only if no Treasure Cards were kept.

The space marked "B" needs to be positioned where the Druid icon is now. If you keep the icon, something about what it represents and which figure to use should be mentioned.

That part about the Blacksmith not leaving the armory could be dropped. This would add an interesting choice: do the Heroes risk losing his 50% discount by having the Blacksmith fight with them, or do they instead forgo his help to insure his reward? I like this, but some monsters should then be added to the Quest. I'd suggest adding some Goblins in the main room of Inn not only to capitalize on that large tile but also better feature Ye Olde Inn in the Quest.

C: Those villagers can be saved like the Blacksmith. Each one will give the heroes 25 gold out of gratitude for their rescue, if they survive. They have the following stats:
Move 2, Attack 1, Defense 2, Body 2, Mind 2

A Villager stands on each space marked "C." Use a Villager tile to represent him or her. A monster that can move to an adjacent space will kill a Villager on their turn. Should the Villager survive, the first Hero to search for treasure is gratefully given 25 gold coins.

I don't favor stats for the Villagers since I don't feel this Quest needs more combatants (and new figures) fighting for the Heroes. It's enough that their rescue provides a tactical challenge in my opinion. However, we do need some way to represent them on the board; A couple of tiles with those Villager icons should suffice--I like the Druid and female Elf.

D: Use temple tile. The Fimir has Ball of Flame and Tempest (I would prefer swamp spells or Mind Control - just my opinion, what do you think?)

I'd say a Fimir should cast Swamp spells. Noxious Spores and Rot should do the trick.

E: This is a villager like the others. The Chest has already been raided by the attackers.

E: A villager like the others stands on the space marked "E." The chest has already been looted by the attackers.

The E should be moved to the Barbarian icon position unless you keep the icon, of course.

F: Inside this cupboard is a Potion of Healing. When used, this Potion will heal up to four lost Body Points.

Inside this cupboard is a Potion of Healing. When used, this potion will restore up to 4 lost Body Points.

Wandering Monster: Goblin

Wandering Monster in this Quest: Goblin

[Anderas]

I think we will have to shorten the quest notes by some amount to fit on the quest book page format. It's here that I would try to reduce unnecessary text if possible: In the Ogre Hordes and elsewhere I have seen the room tiles used without remark at all. There was just a "new symbol" explanation in the beginning of the quest book, afterwards those rooms were just used.

The villagers are the red symbols, not the C's.

[Daedalus]

Your right that the length needs attention. By my count, your notes work out to using all 34 available lines (17 lines across.) If the published format for stats is to be used (I hope so), 18 lines across will be needed. My notes add even more lines. Well, shorter makes for an easier read (or at least will fit), so how about this:

With some trimming the intro can be shrunk down from three to two lines across. (That saves one line across both margins.)

Rouse yourselves, for the Empire is in need of your aid! You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome foretells of your greater destinies. Rid this small village of its raiders, securing the people and their belongings. Then depart in search of the marauders' base.

Rouse yourselves, for the Empire needs you! You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome foretells of your greater destinies. Rid this small village of its raiders, securing the people and their belongings. Then depart in search of captives.

That should leave 18 lines across for actual notes in both the left and right margins. Each line is limited to about 60 characters.

The top of the notes in a bit too long, so I cut it to fit into three lines.

Notes:

The Heroes start with no weapons. Tell the Heroes that village law requires them to be kept at the village armory during their stay. Heroes without equipment roll one Combat Die to attack and two to defend.

Notes:

The Heroes start with no weapons. Tell the Heroes village
law requires them to be kept at the village armory. Unarmed
Heroes roll just one Combat Die to attack and two to defend.

I had added two lines to room A (originally one line), so I cut it down to two lines.

A: Use the Inn tile. Tell the Heroes they begin here, in one bedroom each. [The first Hero to search for treasure in the kitchen will find two knives that can serve as daggers.]

A: Tell the Heroes they begin in one bedroom each. A search
of the kitchen reveals two knives that can serve as daggers.

If you prefer, it could be reduced to one line.

A: Tell the Heroes they begin here, in one bedroom each.

For room B, I my new text is one line more than you nine, now down to ten lines.

B: This is the armory. The Blacksmith stands on the space marked "B." Use the Chaos Sorcerer to represent him. The Blacksmith is controlled by the first Hero to enter, after the last Hero's turn. [The Blacksmith won't leave this room.] His stats are as follows:

Move 2 Attack 2 Defense 2 Body 2 Mind 2

Tell the Heroes the Orcs are attacking a blacksmith. The first Hero to search for treasure will find their weapons on the weapons rack. If the Blacksmith survives to the end of the Quest, the Heroes will also be offered one item of equipment at half price, but only if no Treasure Cards were kept.

B: This is the armory. Tell the Heroes the Orcs are attacking a blacksmith, represented by the Chaos Sorcerer. The first Hero
to enter controls him after his turn. His stats are as follows:
___________________________________________________________
Move . .. . . Attack . . .. . Defense . . .. . Body . .. . . Mind
. .2 . . . . . . . .. 2 . . . . . . . . . ..2 . . . . . . . . ..2 . . . . . . . ..2
^{-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------}
A search for treasure reveals the Heroes' weapons. The
Blacksmith promises an item of equipment at half price after
the Quest should he live and no Treasure Cards are kept.

The Druid icon should be replaced by the Chaos Sorcerer icon. It's worth repeating some monsters should be added to the Inn tile to balance the fighting potential of this ally.

Room C cut down to size at four lines, one less than yours (if a needed space were included.)

A Villager stands on each space marked "C." Use a Villager tile to represent him or her. A monster that can move to an adjacent space will kill a Villager on their turn. Should the Villager survive, the first Hero to search for treasure is gratefully given 25 gold coins.

A Villager stands on each space marked "C." Use a Villager
tile to represent them. A monster will kill a Villager if it can
can move adjacent on its turn. Should the Villager survive,
the first Hero to search for treasure is given 25 Gold Coins.

If this text which was written to match published Quest precedents is used, the Red Villager icons on the map are to be dropped in favor of using the room letter. It's also possible to use the icons on the map, as you already prepared:

Villagers stand on their corresponding icons. Use a Villager
tile to represent them. A monster will kill a Villager if it can
can move adjacent on its turn. Should the Villager survive,
the first Hero to search for treasure is given 25 Gold Coins.

Room D gets new spells but the count remains unchanged with one line.

D: Use temple tile. The Fimir has Ball of Flame and Tempest (I would prefer swamp spells or Mind Control - just my opinion, what do you think?)

D: The Fimir can cast two Swamp spells: Noxious Spores and Rot.

Room E has a text change but the count either remains at two lines or reduces to one line.

E: A villager like the others stands on the space marked "E." The chest has already been looted by the attackers.

E: A villager like those in either Room C stands on the space
marked "E." The chest has already been looted by the raiders.

This room also would have the red icon removed with the letter taking its place. However, an icon version is also possible:

E: Treat the villager like note C. The chest has been looted.

By my count you can fit the text now, whether you choose to cut optional lines or not. I hope my character counts actually fit on the planned lines.

[Anderas]

Ok, so I bring it back into Quest Note Format...
some day I will have to learn your color=transparent trick.

Link to the quest overview spreadsheet to avoid forgetting it




Recommended equipment: 1.7 dice

Quest 1 (Prelude to Chaos I)
Ye Olde Inn

Rouse yourselves, for the Empire needs you! You are just unknown warriors, but Loretome foretells of your greater destinies. Rid this small village of its raiders, securing the people and their belongings. Then depart in search of captives.

Notes: The Heroes start with no weapons. Tell the Heroes village law requires them to be kept at the village armory. Unarmed Heroes roll just one Combat Die to attack and two to defend.

A: Tell the Heroes they begin in one bedroom each. A search of the kitchen reveals two knives that can serve as daggers.
B: This is the armory. Tell the Heroes the Orcs are attacking a blacksmith, represented by the Chaos Sorcerer. The first Hero to enter controls him after his turn. His stats are as follows:
___________________________________________________________
Move . .. . . Attack . . .. . Defense . . .. . Body . .. . . Mind
. .2 . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . ..2 . . . . . . . . ..2 . . . . . . . ..2
___________________________________________________________

A search for treasure reveals the Heroes' weapons. The Blacksmith promises an item of equipment at half price after the Quest should he live and no Treasure Cards are kept.

C: Villagers stand on their corresponding icons. Use a Villager tile to represent them. A monster will kill a Villager if it can can move adjacent on its turn. Should the Villager survive, the first Hero to search for treasure is given 25 Gold Coins.

D: The Fimir can cast two Swamp spells: Noxious Spores and Rot.

E: Treat the villager like note C. The chest has been looted.

F: Inside this cupboard is a Potion of Healing. When used, this potion will restore up to 4 lost Body Points.

Wandering Monster in this Quest: Goblin