HQ25 Treasure Cards

[Anderas]

Yes. Treasure Cards now. I thought we should remove that discussion from the artifact thread.

We have.
have...
said, 8 cards, forum-pre-produced stuff in best case.
I propose 3 hazards, 2 half/half and 3 good cards.
Then I ended up having only strange cards, because I like them!

First, let's go with GimmeYerGold's half-good, half-bad cards.

#1, Dazzling Gemstone invented by GimmeYerGold.
I'd prefer the Mind Point version, as we wanted to have more mind point related stuff in the game.

With 374 letters, it is really at the maximum a card can have.

Daedalus made a shorter version of this, but I don't know if his version is maybe too soft.

YOUR CONTENT-2 Dazzling Gemstone!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 In a forgotten corner you find a dazzling jewel worth 135 gold coins. Whenever you move, this gem might draw your gaze to its splendor; discount any movement die rolled above your Mind Point total. You may discard this card if both dice are doubles and not discounted. If you keep this card, mark the gold coins on your sheet after the Quest and return it to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

#2, Woven Carpet!, invented by GimmeYerGold.

I think the text could be shorter, also the figure is carrying a carpet!
So while preserving this great Idea of GimmeYerGold, I propose this alternate text:

YOUR CONTENT-2 Woven Carpet!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Prying open the lid of a wooden crate, you find a heavy, rolled-up rug. Unfurling it, you see that it's a beautifully woven carpet worth 45 gold coins! However, because it is so large and bulky, it is carried instead of a shield. If you still possess this card after the quest, record the money on your sheet. Do not return this card to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I added it to the cards spreadsheet. for the time being; while of course staying open for any result this discussion may yield.


Now, continue with three good cards.

#3: Mohawk's Dowsing Rods.


I think it can be used as is, only the art needs updating to be like the rest.


#4: Orcish Grog as proposed by Mohawk

YOUR CONTENT-2 Orcish Grog

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Standing on the table, you see a bottle of orcish grog. It heals 1 Body Point. then roll Combat Dice equal to your starting Body Points. Unless a black shield is rolled, you become drunk and roll one fewer Defend dice for the rest of the Quest. Do not return this card to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

#5 An unknown potion

YOUR CONTENT-2 An unknown potion!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 In the corner of the room, in some old rags, you find a potion you don't recognize. Upon drinking this potion, discard this card and take cards from the treasure deck. Apply the effect of the first potion or poison card you find. Do not return both cards to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I propose artwork from Goblin King as found in this thread. I think that's great.

#6 Hazard! (GimmeYerGold again, but this one way widely used I think)

YOUR CONTENT-2 Hazard!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Purple fog hisses from a crack, and you fall under a sleeping spell! The fog then evaporates. You can- not move, perform an action, or defend. The spell can be broken at once or on a future turn by rolling one red die for each of your Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, or you suffer damage from an attack, the spell is broken. Return this card to the bottom of the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

#7 Snake Pit! (GimmeYerGold again)

YOUR CONTENT-2 Snake Pit!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Before you realize it, the ground under your feet opens wide. You fall into a pit filled with venomous snakes and they strike you! You lose 1 Mind Point and your turn is over. You may climb out and move normally on your next turn. The pit then closes. Return this card to the bottom of the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

And finally, a different kind of wandering Monster:

#8: Animated Corpse by Mohawk


Oi man the witch lord gets back up!

[Daedalus]

Yes. Treasure Cards now. I thought we should remove that discussion from the artifact thread.

We have.
have...
said, 8 cards, forum-pre-produced stuff in best case.
I propose 3 hazards, 2 half/half and 3 good cards. . . .

For reference, here are the other Treasure Card amounts:

. EU Game System (16 good, 1 neutral, 8 bad) Gem! Gold! (1 Red Die x10 pieces) Gold! (10 pieces) Gold! (20 pieces) 2x Gold! (25 pieces) Gold! (50 pieces) Heroic Brew Holy Water Jewels! Nothing 2x Potion of Healing Potion of Resilience Potion of Speed Potion of Strength 2x Trap! (hidden arrow) Trap! (pit) Treasure Horde! 5x Wandering Monster .	NA Game System (14 good, 10 bad) 2x Gem! 2x Gold! (15 pieces) 2x Gold! (25 pieces) 2x Hazard! (hidden arrow) 2x Hazard! (shallow hole) Heroic Brew 2x Jewels! Potion of Defence 3x Potion of Healing Potion of Strength 6x Wandering Monster
Against the Ogre Horde (no cards)	. The Elf Quest Pack (4 good) Air Walk Elven Cloak of Passage Treasure Hoard! Wolfsbane Potion .
. The Wizards of Morcar (5 good, 3 bad) 2x Magical Trap Poison Potion of Alchemy Potion of Charm Potion of Magical Aptitude Potion of Magic Resistance (spell effects) Potion of Magic Resistance (fire spells) .	. The Barbarian Quest Pack (4 good, 2 bad) 2x Poison! 2x Potion of Magic Resistance 2x Potion of Warmth .

The EU Game System Treasure Card ratio is set at 64% good, 4% neutral, and 32% negative. The NA Game System Treasure Card ratio is set at 58% good, 42% bad. Averaging the two systems, we have something like a 62% good/38% bad split as a guide.

The expansions are a bit spotty regarding added Treasure Cards. WoM matches the combined systems almost exactly with a 62.5/37.5 split. The BQP is close with a 67/33 split. I'd throw out the EQP's 100% good cards as an anomaly.

We aren't sworn to following published precedents, but I think it would be wise to try to approximate the Game Systems ratio average as done with both WoM and the BQP. This will foster the long-term usefulness of a balanced set of cards for the Game System.

Besides the 4/2 split of the BQP, a 3-good, 1-good/bad, 2-bad allotment also works okay with six cards.

In addition to the 5/3 ratio of the WoM, a 4-good, 2-good/bad, 2-bad distribution isn't bad for eight cards. A 4-good, 1-good/bad, 3-bad proportion is just a bit less satisfactory.

[Anderas]

I agree we should have roughly 60/40. Now is the dazzling gemstone good or bad?

With three definitively bad cards out of eight I undershot the target just so, then those stranger cards fill the rest of the bad gap.
So I thought.

You can download the 8 cards here, for a short time.

containing: US format for online, printing, phone
EU format in zombicide size for online, printing, phone.

[Daedalus]

I have some comments and alternatives for GimmeYerGold's cards.

#1, Dazzling Gemstone invented by GimmeYerGold.
I'd prefer the Mind Point version, as we wanted to have more mind point related stuff in the game.

With 374 letters, it is really at the maximum a card can have.

Daedalus made a shorter version of this, but I don't know if his version is maybe too soft.

YOUR CONTENT-2 Dazzling Gemstone!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 In a forgotten corner you find a dazzling jewel worth 135 gold coins. Whenever you move, this gem might draw your gaze to its splendor; discount any movement die rolled above your Mind Point total. You may discard this card if both dice are doubles and not discounted. If you keep this card, mark the gold coins on your sheet after the Quest and return it to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

It could be toughened a bit, but who wants a stone that can randomly force you to lose your turns all Quest, particularly in combat? Not my Hero, anyway. The original card is particularly brutal on the Barbarian and Dwarf who would almost certainly give it away. Here's a shortened, tougher offering that can't simply be traded to the Wizard to circumvent it's nature:

Dazzling Gemstone! . Tucked away in a forgotten corner, you find a dazzling jewel worth 135 gold coins. Lost in its splendor, you must forfeit any red die rolled to move that is above your Mind Point total. You may not surrender this prize to a Hero. If you keep this card, mark the money on your sheet after the Quest and return it to the deck.

The Wizard's strong mind is probably immune to the gemstone's nature, but I see that as a trade-off for allowing the Barbarian and the Dwarf to possess it without almost complete hindrance.

#2, Woven Carpet!, invented by GimmeYerGold.

I think the text could be shorter, also the figure is carrying a carpet!
So while preserving this great Idea of GimmeYerGold, I propose this alternate text:

YOUR CONTENT-2 Woven Carpet!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Prying open the lid of a wooden crate, you find a heavy, rolled-up rug. Unfurling it, you see that it's a beautifully woven carpet worth 45 gold coins! However, because it is so large and bulky, it is carried instead of a shield. If you still possess this card after the quest, record the money on your sheet. Do not return this card to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I like your mechanic better. Here's a reworded version that explicitly prevents swapping this treasure with a shield for combat:

Woven Carpet . Prying open a crate, you find a heavy rug. Unrolling it reveals a beautifully woven carpet worth 45 gold coins. However, this rug is so bulky it must be held as a shield without the +1 bonus. If you don't put this carpet down until the end of the Quest, record the money on your sheet. Do not return this card to the deck.

[Count Mohawk]

Deadalus's version of the Dazzling Gemstone affects the average movement roll of a Hero as follows:

• 6+ Mind Points (Wizard): 7.0
• 5 Mind Points (Alchemist): 5.0 (3% to skip turn)
• 4 Mind Points (Elf): 3.3 (11% to skip turn)
• 3 Mind Points (Dwarf): 2.0 (25% to skip turn)
• 2 Mind Points (Barbarian): 1.0 (44% to skip turn)
• 1 Mind Point (Goblin): 0.3 (69% to skip turn)

Suffice to say, holding this gem is more debilitating than you might think! I think the Barbarian would have to throw away even Deadalus's 'softer' version, and the Dwarf would be reduced to comically slow levels if he tried to keep it.

The thing that I don't like about this version is that it shreds off the Heroes' best movement rolls; I'd just as soon use a variation that had roughly equivalent chances to waste time but still afforded the possibility of rolling a 12 to escape the dungeon or catch up with the other Heroes on occasion. I'd probably say something like "Roll an additional 'normal' die during each of your movement phases; you skip that move if the extra die rolls higher than your Mind Points.", although I don't know how to word it in 'normal' Hero Quest-speak.

[Anderas]

What about a version that lets you lose your movement if you roll a double that's higher than your mind points.
That way you lose a maximum of 17% of your movements, and all the heroes are still affected, even the Wizard.

[Daedalus]

. . . Now, continue with three good cards.

#3: Mohawk's Dowsing Rods.


I think it can be used as is, only the art needs updating to be like the rest.

I agree about the need for new art. Another work-around is to convert this card into a potion with this Treasure Hoard image or Goblin-King art:

Potion of Fortune . Amongst some rubble you find a bottle filled with a coppery liquid. Drink this potion when you search for treasure. You may then look at the top four Treasure Cards of the treasure deck, take one card and put the rest back on top. You can then choose to shuffle the treasure deck. This may only be used once. Do not return this card to the deck.

#4: Orcish Grog as proposed by Mohawk

YOUR CONTENT-2 Orcish Grog

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Standing on the table, you see a bottle of orcish grog. It heals 1 Body Point. then roll Combat Dice equal to your starting Body Points. Unless a black shield is rolled, you become drunk and roll one fewer Defend dice for the rest of the Quest. Do not return this card to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I'd say this card can be counted as good, but is also borderline good/bad as it might take more than it gives. I like this card a lot. I'd recommend keeping it, but it needs balancing with a milder bad card. Here's the same card with some minor text changes:

Orcish Grog . You find a small jug of Orcish grog. It restores 1 lost Body Point, but you must roll a number of Combat Dice equal to your starting Body Points. Unless a Black Shield is rolled, you become drunk and roll one less Defend Die for the rest of the Quest. Do not return this card to the deck.

This Potion of Warmth image from the BQP looks groggy:

#5 An unknown potion

YOUR CONTENT-2 An unknown potion!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 In the corner of the room, in some old rags, you find a potion you don't recognize. Upon drinking this potion, discard this card and take cards from the treasure deck. Apply the effect of the first potion or poison card you find. Do not return both cards to the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I propose artwork from Goblin King as found in this thread. I think that's great.

drathe's Mysterious Potion from the same thread also works. Here's my obligatory text do-over:

Unknown Potion . In a corner among some old rags, you find a potion you don't recognize. Upon drinking this potion, discard this card and begin drawing from Treasure Card deck. Apply the effect of the first potion you find. Do not return either card to the deck.

Poison was knocked out because there aren't any Poison! cards in our expansion or the Game System and we need positive cards. I like this card less because it possibly wastes an otherwise useful potion. That makes it another good-borderline-good/bad card where we need straight "good" ones.

#6 Hazard! (GimmeYerGold again, but this one way widely used I think)

YOUR CONTENT-2 Hazard!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Purple fog hisses from a crack, and you fall under a sleeping spell! The fog then evaporates. You can- not move, perform an action, or defend. The spell can be broken at once or on a future turn by rolling one red die for each of your Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, or you suffer damage from an attack, the spell is broken. Return this card to the bottom of the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

#7 Snake Pit! (GimmeYerGold again)

YOUR CONTENT-2 Snake Pit!

YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y

YOUR CONTENT-2 Before you realize it, the ground under your feet opens wide. You fall into a pit filled with venomous snakes and they strike you! You lose 1 Mind Point and your turn is over. You may climb out and move normally on your next turn. The pit then closes. Return this card to the bottom of the deck. YOUR CONTENT-2 Y Y

I have separate issues with these cards. The Hazard! card is mostly a time waster. I can't see the fun in waiting for everybody to break the effect. Only those groups impatient enough to risk splitting up would make this card worthwhile. The Snake Pit! card is okay except I don't like the forced feel of the door closing afterwards. So here is a new card that borrows elements from both:

Hazard! . Purple fog hisses from a crack, filling your lungs and clouding your head. You lose 1 Mind Point and your turn is over. Return this card to the bottom of the deck.

And finally, a different kind of wandering Monster:

#8: Animated Corpse by Mohawk


Oi man the witch lord gets back up!

Yeah, it can be a fiendish card, alright. I think this card will need versions for each Game System. Here's an NA card:

Animated Corpse! . As you search, your hand brushes against a profane inscription. A burst of Chaotic energies is triggered! Zargon chooses one monster that died in the room to arise as undead with starting Body Points and 0 Mind Points (no abilities.) The monster attacks you immediately! Return this card to the bottom of the deck.

[Anderas]

Good find with the body points for the animated corpse.
It's not special to the NA version, also in the EU there are multi-BP-Monsters; additionally we said that in HQ25 we use NA Monster stats.

I'd like to share a little preview here. I have a python doing the Card Generation work with the data coming from this spreadsheet.
(yes, a german version is also auto-generated.)
Automatically there is a EU and NA version if the language is english, and always there is a print, "normal" and phone version. So you enter the text once, and six versions of the card are coming out. For the preview I used the EU phone version.


For the smoke hazard, the point is not so much about stealing turns (even if I do); it is more about having one more Mind Point Check.
For the Orcish Grog I thought that the lucky grinning dwarf might be appropriate.
It's always good to have a preview: I saw right now that I did not yet change the woven carpet. I took a note. Will be done soon, along with some spacing in the new "Hazard" and in "animated corpse".


--- picture removed... seee last posting in this thread

[j_dean80]

I still have trouble with the name "dowsing rods". Where I live we call them "Witching Sticks".

[Anderas]

I have no feeling for that as I am not native English.

I will change the title, thanks for the remark.