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HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Brainstorming topics for the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Quest Pack.

Which Swamp/Fimir spells should be included?

Poll ended at Tuesday October 17th, 2017 6:48pm

What should the spell set be called?
0
No votes
Fimir Spells
1
1%
Swamp Spells
6
6%
Marsh Spells
0
No votes
Bog Magic
2
2%
What spells should the set contain? (multiple votes)
0
No votes
Swamp spells created by anyone
0
No votes
Swamp spells created by Inn members only
3
3%
A) Acid Rain: All Heroes lose 1 piece of equipment unless roll a white shield on one die.
3
3%
B) Slime: No movement unless caster killed or roll a black shield on one die.
4
4%
C) Slough: One Hero is caught in a Slough Trap. (Lose turn and roll dice = BP. Lose 1 BP if black shield, escape if white shield. Discard one earth or water spell to end spell.)
2
2%
D) Cloud of Flies: All figures in the room or corridor attack and defend with one less die. Does not affect undead or swamp monsters.
3
3%
E) Rot/Putrification: Attacks one Hero with 1-3 dice, defend with dice = current MP. Doesn't affect undead or swamp monsters.
3
3%
F) Insect Swarm: Attacks one Hero with 3 combat dice which is defended with two dice. Doesn't affect undead or swamp monsters.
5
5%
G) Disease: One Hero rolls a combat die immediately and on future turns. A black shield causes 1 BP of damage, but a white shield ends the spell.
2
2%
H) Fever: One Hero defends with one less die. On his turns, he rolls one combat die. The spell ends if he rolls a white shield.
1
1%
I) Bog Plague: One Hero can't attack or defend. Roll one red die for each MP on future turns. Spell ends if a black shield is rolled.
2
2%
J) Noxious Spores: One Hero reroll any successful combat dice within that room or corridor.
3
3%
K) Will 'O Whisp: Any one monster including the caster may roll 2 extra dice when defending. The spell ends when 1 BP is suffered.
2
2%
L) Summon Swamp Beast: Place a Swamp Beast (use Basilisk, Mv:4 At:4 De:6 BP:4 MP:4) in line of sight of the caster which may move and attack immediately.
6
6%
M) Summon Swamp Zombies: Place 3 Zombies that have 3 BP each within LoS of the caster. They may move and attack immediately.
2
2%
N) Toxic Cloud: Place the Toxic Cloud tile within LoS of the caster. Any Hero or monster (not undead or swamp monsters) in the cloud at the start of their turn rolls a combat die. A victim misses his turn if anything but a white shield is rolled, while 1 BP is additionally lost if a black shield is rolled. The spell ends when the caster is killed.
4
4%
O) Pestilence: Any one Hero in LoS attacks and defends with one less die. The victim rolls a red die at the start of his turns. The spell ends if he rolls under his current MP.
3
3%
P) Creeping Snare: Cast on any one square or Hero in LoS. That Hero or any Hero that ends his turn on the square may not move. He also attacks and defends with one less die. The vines have 4 BP but don't defend. Undead and Fimir aren't affected.
4
4%
Q) Acid Spray: Acid envelops one Hero in LoS. The victim immediately rolls a combat die. 1 BP of damage is inflicted if anything but a white shield is rolled, though any chain or plate mail is discarded if a black shield is rolled. Does not affect artifacts.
2
2%
R) Summon Marsh Skeletons: Place 5 Skeletons (Mv:4 At:2 De:2 BP:2 MP:0, diagonal attack) within LoS. They may move and attack immediately.
2
2%
S) Swamp Summons: A group of undead surrounds the caster. Swamp Skeletons and Swamp Zombies have 1 extra BP. Roll one red die. 1 or 2 = 3 Skeletons; 3 or 4 = 2 Skeletons, 1 Zombie; 5 or 6 = 3 Skeletons, 2 Zombies
2
2%
T) Tangling Vines: One Hero may not move and rolls 1 less die to defend. The victim rolls one red die for each of his BP on future turns. If a 6 is rolled, the spell ends. The spell may also be ended by an adjacent Hero forfeiting his action.
6
6%
U) Marsh Mists: One monster may move unseen through spaces that are occupied by Heroes the next time it moves.
5
5%
V) Summon Kobolds: Conjure a group of Kobolds to surround the caster. Roll one red die: 1, 2, or 3 = 3 Kobolds; 4 or 5 = 4 Kobolds; 6 = 5 Kobolds
2
2%
W) Torpor: One Hero rolls 2 fewer dice to both attack and defend, as well as 1 less die to move. Broken immediately or on a future turn by the Hero rolling one red die for each of his MP. If a 5 or 6 is rolled, the spell ends.
3
3%
X) Summon Tentacled Beast: Place the 4x4 Tentacled Beast tile within LoS. It attacks all adjacent Heroes with 3 dice, defends with 3 dice, moves 3, and has 5 BP and 2 MP.
2
2%
Y) Snake Swarm: Place 2 adjacent 1x1 Snake Swarm tiles in LoS. The swarm attacks any number of adjacent Heroes with 2 dice, defends with 3 dice, and has 4 BP.
3
3%
Z) Purple Haze: One Hero must reroll any successful combat dice. The spell is broken immediately or on a future turn by rolling one red die for each MP. If a 6 is rolled, the spell ends.
0
No votes
DD) Cloud of Flies--alternate: Heroes in any room or corridor roll one less die when attacking or defending until the spellcaster's next turn.
3
3%
JJ) Noxious Spores--alternate: Until the caster's next turn, whenever a Hero attacks or defends, he must re-roll all combat dice once and take the worse of the two rolls.
3
3%
LL) Summon Basilisk--Swamp Beast alternate: Place a Basilisk on any square adjacent to the spellcaster. The Basilisk may move and attack at once.
1
1%
GG) Disease--alternate: One Hero rolls a combat die immediately and on future turns. A skull causes 1 BP of damage. A white shield ends the spell, as does any healing.
3
3%
placeholder
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 98

Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Anderas » Monday November 5th, 2018 2:20am

No problem with having a special spell back. WoM all have special backs. Having the general "Chaos" spell back is just a cheap way out in case we don't find artwork.

Daedalus, I wasn't following the entire history of the poll as you did and probably did not see that there were just different versions of the same spell, so I go with your count here.

Deluding spores is a nice name.

Rot - I just made the card with the wording from the vote. :mrgreen:

Cloud of Flies / Tangling Vines, ok, let's have both (that makes 6 spells selected in my count)

I just entered the words from the poll (except for deluding spores)
Yes that needs working on. :lol: I edited a little bit the fluff texts. Maybe a native speaker might want to look over them.
I also made a nicer variant of "did not find the picture". :)


Now, serious questions:
Do we need "Discard the card after use" on every single card?

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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Monday November 5th, 2018 3:05pm

j_dean80 wrote:I prefer adding new special NA Swamp Spells and Kobold Trickster Spells instead of adding them as more Chaos Spells. The Cultists use the Chaos Spells already. It's no different than incorporating WoM into NA format. Also, the Elf Pack introduced a new type of Spells.

You can also voice your ideas as votes in the HQ25 spell sets poll. The poll gives an idea how we should present spells. Both EU and NA card back formats have been voted for pretty much equally. I can appreciate you concern to maintain the EU aesthetic for card backs. Separate folders with different Spell Card backs for each system can address this desire for format agreement.

Yes, new spells were introduced in the EQP with Chaos Spell Card backs as per the NA format. (Our design document prohibits them.) Swamp spells with Chaos spell Card backs and an identifying Fimir icon on the text side should be as simple as EU-backed Swamp Spell Cards to separate from the standard Chaos Spell Cards of the Game System (or EQP.)
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday November 6th, 2018 2:18pm

Anderas wrote:No problem with having a special spell back. WoM all have special backs. Having the general "Chaos" spell back is just a cheap way out in case we don't find artwork.

Goblin-King had worked up a nice Swamp Spell Card back.

Anderas wrote:. . . Cloud of Flies / Tangling Vines, ok, let's have both (that makes 6 spells selected in my count)

Daedalus wrote:
Daedalus wrote:. . . Currently, the voted core six Swamp spells are:
    Summon Swamp Beast/Basilisk, Cloud of Flies, Tangling Vines, Insect Swarm, Disease, and Marsh Mists

We overlap on Summon Basilisk, Tangling Vines, Marsh Mists, and Rot (in place of Insect Swarm.) Pestilence/Deluding Spores needs some discussion, but I could support it. I favor Disease over Toxic Cloud because the former got 5 votes while the later got just 3 by my count.

I'm afraid I failed to express my intent properly in the reply just above. I like Cloud of Flies well enough, but it pretty much duplicates the attack and defense debuffs found in Deluding Spores without the Mind Point roll. I had expected Cloud of Flies to be bumped and Disease kept.

However, Disease and Rot share some attack overlap as well. I will say that thematically, those spells do feel very similar. The question is, would it be better to have two overlapping damaging spells (Rot and Disease) or two overlapping debuff spells (Cloud of Flies and Deluding Spores)?

I have two separate suggestions to choose from that cut out some of the overlap. The first is Venomous Strike, a renaming and fluff fix for Disease:

Venomous Strike: This spell summons a viper that immediately strikes any one Hero with a poisonous bite. The target must roll one Combat Die immediately and on future turns. Each time a skull is rolled, the spell inflicts 1 Body Point of damage. The spell is broken if a white shield is rolled or any Body Points are restored through healing.

The other suggestion for differentiation is to tweak the mechanic of Deluding Spores. As the stronger debuff spell, it could tolerate some reduction and needs a word or two trimmed anyway. How about focusing the spell onto just cutting down Attack Dice, the strength of combat-oriented Heroes? If that fails to reduce the spell to ten lines, change "spellcaster" to caster.

Deluding Spores: This spell spreads hallucinogenic spores that affect all Heroes in the same room as the spellcaster. When attacking, victims must re-roll all Combat Dice and use the worse result. The spell can be ended at once or on a future turn by each victim rolling one red die for each of his Mind Points. If a 6 is rolled, that Hero is no longer affected.

Anderas wrote:I just entered the words from the poll (except for deluding spores)
Yes that needs working on. :lol: I edited a little bit the fluff texts. Maybe a native speaker might want to look over them.
I also made a nicer variant of "did not find the picture" :)

I'll get to work on those next.

Anderas wrote:Now, serious questions:
Do we need "Discard the card after use" on every single card?

That question was voted on in the HQ25 spell sets poll. The discard (and LoS) text may be omitted. The introductory section of the pack will explain a global rule for cards to bring the pack in line with NA convention.
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Anderas » Wednesday November 7th, 2018 5:18am

Ok, so I removed that phrase and exchanged Cloud of Flies.

I made the preview with the US format, just to have some variety

As mentioned earlier, those cards can directly be edited by clicking on this link.

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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Thursday November 8th, 2018 6:23pm

I had trouble placing in text edits in the Google Drive sheet, so I'm presenting the spell edits here. A few spell descriptions were gotten and developed from their links found in the OP of this topic.

My opinion is it is important to imitate the style and wording conventions found in the published Spell Cards to maintain continuity. As such, many of the card texts below were reverted to that format. However, some of the opening sentences were amended to work in a bit from your added fluff descriptions.

Deluding Spores: "re-roll" > reroll

[The change matches the WoM Future Sight spell. GimmeYerGold had posted a Noxious Spores card here. I'm not sure if you can pull the art with sufficient resolution or not, but maybe a PM request would get him to provide it.]

Marsh Mists: "This spell creates a concealing fog when cast on any one monster. That monster may then move unseen through spaces that are occupied by Heroes the next time it moves."

Rot: "This spell causes a foul rotting of flesh when cast on any one Hero. Roll 3 Combat Dice. Each skull rolled inflicts one hit. The Hero defends by rolling as many dice as he has Mind Points."

[Other attack spells either include an entity like Vengeful Spirit or something resembling a weapon like Arrows of the Night. Rot feels like neither, (even after dropping the adjacency requirement and red die) so this text avoids the word "attack." Maybe this doesn't matter. Maybe use the art from GimmeYerGold's card, Fever, found here.]

Summon Basilisk: "This spell summons a Basilisk to do the caster's bidding, which appears on any square adjacent to the caster. The Basilisk may move and attack at once."

[I used Mohawk's later version. Like Goblin-King, I prefer using a new monster that already has a figure and stats provided. Check out another of GimmeYerGold's cards, Summon Basilisk, for potential art here.]

Tangling Vines: "This spell may be cast to ensnare one Hero in tangling roots and vines. That Hero may not move and rolls one less Combat Die to defend. The spell can be broken on a future turn by the Hero rolling one red die for each of his Body Points. If a 6 is rolled, the spell ends. An adjacent Hero may also roll to end the spell by forfeiting an action."

Venomous Strike: "This spell summons several vipers that immediately strike any one Hero with poisonous bites, then vanish. The Hero must roll one Combat Die immediately and on future turns. If a skull is rolled, the spell inflicts 1 Body Point of damage. The spell is broken if a white shield is rolled or any Body Points are restored through healing."

["Several vipers" was swapped in to account for the art. I thought it better to mention the vipers vanish, as with Spirit of Vengeance.]
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Anderas » Friday November 9th, 2018 3:27am

hm, so you replaced the voted for "summon swamp beast" with "summon basilisk"?

well, why not. We should really close the poll.

I replaced all "Heroes" and "Monsters" with "Models" so to ensure that also a Hero can use the spell group some time.
Those card pictures are nice, certainly usable. Still missing is Marsh Mists and Tangling Vines. Marsh Mists can have the picture of cloud of Chaos.

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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby j_dean80 » Friday November 9th, 2018 2:47pm

Anderas wrote:I replaced all "Heroes" and "Monsters" with "Models" so to ensure that also a Hero can use the spell group some time.


So after the Pack is accomplished it becomes a new Spell set for the Wizard/Elf?

I believe original text uses "figure".
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Saturday November 10th, 2018 3:18am

I set the poll to run for one day. It will close tomorrow.

It's true Summon Swamp Beast got most of the votes from these two similar spells. Summon Basilisk was added a month later weeks after those 6 votes had been gotten. I had missed some spells in other threads and added them late, but voting had already stalled at that time. I feel that's an apparent weakness of the poll process, not the spell option.

The idea of a spell revision for Summon Swamp Beast was first proposed by Goblin-King:

Goblin-King wrote:Swamp Beast - As we don't have a swamp beast I suggest using something we DO have. Summon basilisk instead. Fits pretty good. Or perhaps go for "drowned corpses and summon some zombies!
Caster summons a swamp beast and places it on any
square in sight. Use the gargoyle model if there's
nothing else. The Swamp Beast acts as an ordinary
monster starting from this round and has the following
stats: Attack: 4, Defence: 6, Movement: 4, Body: 4, Mind: 1.

No change came about at that time; Gold Bearer was resistant to accepting criticism from Goblin-King at that point, so development stalled. Count Mohawk later reintroduced the Basilisk in his spell list picks of which Goblin-King approved:

Count Mohawk wrote:I've gone through the Spell crafting thread and collected a list of 9 magics for the Swamp Spell deck. In alphabetical order:
. . .
  • Summon Basilisk: This spell summons a Basilisk to do the caster's bidding, which appears on any square adjacent to the caster. The Basilisk may move and attack at once.
. . .


Goblin-King wrote:I'm very happy with the selection of spells. Good work!
A few comments though...
. . .
Summon Basilisk: The basilisk is indeed one of the new monsters for this pack, so the wording is fine.

Those two either didn't vote in the poll or didn't change their vote. Their preference changes the count from 6 to 1 to at least 6 to 3, if not 4 to 3. I chose Summon Basilisk to agree with the direction of the project leader and project Hero at that time, the latest decision on the spell. I've always considered these polls to be a guiding tool, but not an obstruction to team development.

I also feel we should try to emulate previously published work when possible. All other Summon spells use available monsters that already have stats. It's simpler. I think that's what Goblin-King and Count Mohawk were after, as well.

That said, you are the current project Hero and your input counts more than most. Both spells can work (though Summon Swamp Beast still needs a line added about using the Basilisk or Gargoyle figure.) A swamp beast is a bit easier to figure in a fight. If you prefer Summon Swamp Beast for the votes, I could accept that.
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Saturday November 10th, 2018 6:57am

j_dean80 wrote:
Anderas wrote:I replaced all "Heroes" and "Monsters" with "Models" so to ensure that also a Hero can use the spell group some time.


So after the Pack is accomplished it becomes a new Spell set for the Wizard/Elf?

I believe original text uses "figure".

Yes, "figure" is commonly used in WoM spells, so there is a precedent. EU Wizard and Elf spells use "player" or "monster." NA spells use "Hero", "monster", or "target." An EQP spell, Hypnotic Blaze, used "figure" when both Heroes and monsters in the room could be affected. Other spells used Hero or monster together.

Since we're working on a common text set for both systems at this point, "figure" can work. The Spell Set Poll showed a desire for separate texts for each Game System, but that can come later, if at all.
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Re: HQ25 Swamp spells poll

Postby Daedalus » Saturday November 10th, 2018 8:00am

Anderas wrote:. . . Those card pictures are nice, certainly usable. Still missing is Marsh Mists and Tangling Vines. Marsh Mists can have the picture of cloud of Chaos.

Could you can Photoshop up this image from the HeroQuest Sticker Album? I don't know if the colors are too difficult to remove.

Image

I pulled a possible Marsh Mists image from the Hero Quest Marvel Winter Special. If it can be used, I'd erase that wood frame line.

Image
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