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HQ25 - Artifacts

Brainstorming topics for the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Quest Pack.

Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Count Mohawk » Monday October 22nd, 2018 8:14am

j_dean80 wrote:
Anderas wrote:You mean those four artifacts needed to complete the quest pack?
I thought they would be searched for and found in quests 19, 20, 21, 22.
On the other hand, the heroes could involuntarily (via YOUR four artifacts) trigger something that they need to correct in the end with the OTHER four artifacts. :D

I made some hours of work and filtered this thread for all the artifacts, just some postings above. Maybe there is also something interesting to use there...


Like you said...4 Artifacts that cause something bad when all found, then the Heroes need the other 4 to correct. Think it would make a nice twist. Others mentioned it before me but I was trying to revamp the idea.

Right. To clarify: We have 4 "good" Artifacts (presumably the group of 4 with the Aero Greaves et al). J_dean is saying there would ALSO be a group of 4 "bad" Artifacts which the Heroes find that end up causing a bad thing later on when all 4 are collected. Presumably we'd include one or two items like the Infernal Armor mentioned by Deadalus on the first page. I wouldn't necessarily want to count the "magic red cape" as one of the "bad" 4, however, unless the Heroes got to keep those Artifacts after, because the Wizard needs his WizCloak expy and it would be kind of silly to have to include a second one in the same Quest Pack.

I could definitely see how the "bad" Artifacts could be invoked, though - the Heroes have to go to the Cult of Chaos to kill them before they do a terrible ritual, right? (see quests 17 and 18) Well, suppose that the ritual goes off anyway because the Heroes have collected the 4 "bad" Artifacts already and were foolish enough to bring them with when storming the castle? I seem to recall a twist like that appearing in the story thread somewhere.


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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday October 23rd, 2018 12:37am

Since Anderas mentioned text counts, I'll take a crack at chopping some of the lengthier artifact texts down to size. Use them, or just parts, as you like. I'm also pushing some opinions and comments like I always do in the hopes that some may help.

Anderas wrote:Battle Gauntlets
These burly metal gauntlets improve the wearer's physical abilities in combat. They are very large and can only be worn by the Barbarian. While using these gauntlets, you may reroll your entire Attack roll once per turn. If you do, you must accept the second roll, even if it worse. You must use this ability before the monster rolls for defense.

    Battle Gauntlets
    .
    These burly, metal gauntlets improve the Barbarian's physical abilities in combat. While wearing these gauntlets, you may reroll all of your Combat Dice to attack on any of your turns. If you do, you must reroll before the monster defense and accept the second roll.

Anderas wrote:Adamant Epaulets
These sturdy epaulets protect their wearer from harm. They are too small for anyone other than the Dwarf to wear them. While wearing these epaulets, you may roll an additional Combat Die when Defending, but only while your Body Points are less than 4.

It's easier for a 10-year-old.

The anachronistic disparity between sword and sorcery armors and post-renaissance epaulets, a military insignia, creates both a clashing fluff issue and physical inconsistency, in my opinion. Perhaps another term would help, but Roman pteryges is too remote. Another sticking point for me is I don't see the Dwarf's broad shoulders creating a size restriction. If they are included regardless, here's another version:

    Adamant Epaulets
    .
    This sturdy shoulder armor
    protects their wearer from harm. You may roll an extra Combat Die to defend, but only while your Body Points are 3 or less.

Anderas wrote:Aero Greaves
These magical greaves lighten their wearer's pace. Only the Elf can wear them properly. While wearing these greaves, you may roll an additional red die when rolling for movement and discard the lowest result.

I've already submitted my buffed alternates in my previous post, though this entry checks out.

Anderas wrote:Spellcraft Amulet
This round amulet is etched with many runes in a language only the Wizard can read. While wearing the amulet, whenever you cast a spell, you may roll two red dice. If the total is less than your current Mind Points, you may immediately cast a second copy of that spell.

This works well.

Anderas wrote:Hammer of Vengeance
This burnished red hammer is capable of mighty blows, but only against powerful opponents. When attacking with this weapon, roll a number of Combat Dice equal to the Defend value of the monster you are attacking, up to a maximum of 5 dice. You may not use a shield while wielding this weapon. May not be used by the Wizard.
I removed "two-handed" to save some letters, but it's still 323 letters long.
This was why we had the no wizard symbol in HQModern, right? :mrgreen:

This text already fits onto a card in ten lines, but here's another version trimmed to nine:

    Hammer of Vengeance
    .
    This burnished red hammer is capable of mighty blows against powerful opponents. When using it, roll a number of Combat Dice equal to the Defend Dice of the monster you are attacking, up to a maximum of five. You may not use a shield while wielding this weapon. May
    not be used by the Wizard.

Anderas wrote:Arcan's Spear
The haft of this magical spear glows with a ethereal blue light. When using it, roll three Combat Dice to attack. While holding Arcan's Spear, your current and maximum Mind Points are increased by one. The length of this spear enables you to attack diagonally. May not be used by the Wizard.

So basically we immunize somebody against sleep. I guess that's the same somebody who would so much love to use the Hammer of Vengeance, so that's a difficult choice. I like it.

It's a bit strange to me that a Wizard can't gain a Mind Point by holding the spear like other Heroes. Perhaps a Wizard can't cast spells while holding it . . . yet he can cast while holding a staff. I prefer just reusing the Talisman of Lore. Is the idea to provide a another Mind Point buff for a total of two in the expansion? Here's an optional version if anyone agrees with this use distinction:

    Arcan's Spear
    .
    The haft of this magical spear
    glows with a ethereal blue light. While holding it, your Mind Points are increased by one and you roll three Combat Dice to attack. The length of this spear enables you
    to attack diagonally. May not be
    used by the Wizard to attack.

Anderas wrote:Dagger of Dowsing
This dagger has a small golden jewel set in its pommel. It may be used to attack with one Combat Die. Whenever you deal one or more Body Points of damage to a monster with this weapon, you may take a Treasure card. If that card is a Wandering Monster or Hazard, it has no effect and is shuffled back into the Treasure deck.

I'm not sure, to be honest... :?: That's strong, going through the treasure deck without risk.

It feels like a coin drop from a video game, which might be the intent? I also feel this one is too strong.

Anderas wrote:Now the three vulcan-ish items of daedalus

Hell Rod
The flared iron barrel of this long-range weapon gives you the attack strength of 4 combat dice. It can be fired at any one non-adjacent target you can see. However, it must be loaded carefully; you may not move in the same turn you fire. When fired, it spouts out the fiery bone fragments and ash of a tortured soul causing you to lose 1 Mind Point. It has enough ammunition for 10 shots before it becomes useless. May not be used by the Wizard.

It'll be very difficult to use. Also it has 446 letters. I would tend to exclude this one.

Those are fair criticisms. All three Chaos Dwarf artifacts needn't be included, but improvement is possible. Chop-chop.

    Hell Rod
    .
    The flared barrel of this weapon gives you the attack strength of four Combat Dice. It can be fired at any one non-adjacent target you can "see." Firing it's unholy shot causes you to lose 1 Mind Point. It has enough ammunition for 6 shots. May not be used by the Wizard.

Anderas wrote:Infernal Armor
This diabolic metal armor gives you 2 extra combat dice in defense. However, because of its weight you roll 3 red dice for movement while only using the lower 2. Furthermore, while wearing this unclean armor your Mind Point total is reduced by 1. May be combined with the Helmet and/or Shield. May not be worn by the Wizard.

I like it. Is that sentence about helmet and shield necessary? Without it, it is nicely short.

Yeah, cutting the helmet and shield reference is fine, though the art shouldn't show a helmet as part of the armor set. Borin's Armor has that problem, which has opened it to controversy. Here's another version without the extra die roll that also may work:

    Infernal Armor
    .
    This diabolic metal armor gives you two extra Combat Dice in defense. However, because of its weight you roll just one red die for movement when you begin or end your turn in a room or corridor with any monsters.
    Furthermore, while wearing this armor your Mind Points are reduced by 1. May not be worn by the Wizard.
The idea is to speed up exploring but still slow down combat like plate mail.

Anderas wrote:Magic Red Cape
The Wizard may roll one more die in defense. Any Minotaur that can "see" this cape, will move to and attack the wearer if he can.

My thoughts: Base defense are 2 dice (they are, aren't they? Or is it one of the differences between the systems?); plus bracers are three dice, plus this one are four dice in defense. Well, and a tiny disadvantage. :mrgreen:
I think there will be no big difference - if the wizard stays back as he should, that is.

Yes, base defense is 2 in both systems. I'd briefly considered attracting attacks from all Minotaurs as well but thought it too mean. You are evil, sir. :twisted: This artifact has a lot of interest tied to its story, so here's my version with a Marvel Winter Special Easter egg:

    Chandra's Cape
    .
    The shadowy folds of this reversible cape gives the Wizard one extra die to defend. However, it's red interior lining enrages any Minotaur that can "see" this cape, causing it to move at and attack the wearer if possible.

Anderas wrote:Lightning Rod
This copper rod enables the Wizard to shoot lightning. Aim at any monster he can "see" and roll a combat die. If hit, the target will lose 1 Body Point. If a model is adjacent to this victim, the bolt arcs. Roll an attack against the new target. If a black shield is rolled, the rod is drained and may not be used until the next Quest.

I shortened the text to 335 letters. Also, the lightning may arc over to friendly models now. It's just more style that way. :twisted: Just my opinion; I'd like to hear your thought's, too?

Sure, let it affect any adjacent figure. That's more like the Lightning Bolt spell.

Anderas wrote:Kobold's Bane
Two snakes twine this magical blade. Roll three combat dice to attack. If you attack and kill a Kobold, you may continue to attack another adjacent Kobold that are also in range. Roll again with one fewer die each attack until you fail to kill one. May not be used by the Wizard.

Shortened the text to 278 letters. I didn't like the last name, but I also don't like this name. Any ideas on this? This could be found in Q4, that one that J_Dean is currently editing

The problem is "Bane" has already been used. Instead, why not reference the ability to counter the Kobolds' strength? I'd recommend this version:

    Mob Render
    .
    Two snakes twine this magical blade. When using this broadsword, roll three Combat Dice to attack. If you kill a Kobold, you may attack another Kobold that is adjacent to you. Roll again with one less die each attack until you fail to kill one. May not be used by the Wizard.
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby benvoliothefirst » Tuesday October 23rd, 2018 2:48am

Some great insight from Daedalus! So happy to see movement on all this. One point: Chandra's Cape (love the name!) should say ..."its red LINING" as opposed to "interior." Means the same but more of a clothing term than architectural.
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby j_dean80 » Tuesday October 23rd, 2018 7:07pm

What about Kobold's Blade?
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday October 24th, 2018 7:16pm

With all the talk about the image on Borin's Armor how bout Borin's Helmet as an Artifact?

"This helmet was long seperated from it's fellow armor. Add 1 combat die on defense. This helmet protects the wearer from falling block trap damage."
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Daedalus » Sunday October 28th, 2018 3:50pm

j_dean80 wrote:What about the "Spiked Shield" as an Artifact?
http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4125&hilit=spiked+shield

Well, artifacts do things regular equipment can't, so yeah.

Anderas wrote:. . I made some hours of work and filtered this thread for all the artifacts, just some postings above. Maybe there is also something interesting to use there. . . .

. . . That said, the spiked shield needs working on. In Mitchiemacha's first idea it introduces two bugs:
* Defense is up to six dice in the base game; so mitchie's spiked shield would attack with six dice. That's way stronger than the battle axe.
* Defense is rolled as many times as you like, so this shield would introduce unlimited attacks per turn. . . .

How about that:
YOUR CONTENT-2
Spiked Shield
YOUR CONTENT-2
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
YOUR CONTENT-2
This strange shield has spikes attached to it. Use it as a shield and add one die to your defense, or use it to attack an adjacent enemy and add one die to your attack roll; but not both in the same turn.
May not be used by the Wizard. May not be used with the Battle Axe or the Staff.
YOUR CONTENT-2
Y
Y

Allowing the choice of an extra Attack Die is a powerful option for the Spiked Shield, as a Hero will usually opt to eliminate a monster before it can attack back. The +1AD option will also be preferred when using a longsword from a diagonal square. Combined with Battle Gauntlets, this would add yet another Attack Die for a +5, diagonal attack.

It should work okay short-term if one or both of these artifacts are taken away by Chaos Dwarves, lost in the end battle, or whatever, but not as well as a second, permanent, +1 AD buff option. :2cents: Only the Barbarian possibly needs as +1 bump, and ideally that should remain at the cost of a defensive trade-off. That's why I like the shield.

I agree with Anderas that multiple attacks stemming from multiple defenses should be prohibited. I also favor a 1-AD damage cap. Here's another version hearkening back to the original thread that does both with a bit less certainty of allowing the Attack Die bonus:

    Spiked Shield
    .
    This shield gives you one extra Combat Die in defense. You may use one white shield rolled to defend an adjacent attack each turn to instead cause a hit against that monster. You may not use a battle axe or staff when using this hand-held armor. May not be used by the Wizard.

This Spiked Shield probably won't be used to attack if the defending Hero must take a Body Point of damage, and it certainly can't be used if the Hero isn't hit at all. Also, the single hit of the Spiked Shield may be fully defended apart from the Hero's other Attack Dice. These characteristics tend to limit the usefulness of the artifact, which makes it a better permanent artifact candidate, in my opinion. It will sometimes require an extra defense roll from a monster, however.
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Daedalus » Sunday October 28th, 2018 5:28pm

benvoliothefirst wrote:. . . Chandra's Cape (love the name!) should say ..."its red LINING" as opposed to "interior." Means the same but more of a clothing term than architectural.

Sure, lining is better. I'm a bit torn (excuse the pun) about the detail, as the MWS image of Chandra's cape doesn't actually show red lining. Maybe the magic power of the cape mutes the trigger color unless a Minotaur is present. The bold lining could be a side effect from the magic used to trap Thantos in his magical prison combined with a curse from the enraged Minotaur. All this fluff doesn't count for much when considering the ten lines of an Artifact Card, however.

j_dean80 wrote:With all the talk about the image on Borin's Armor how bout Borin's Helmet as an Artifact?

"This helmet was long seperated from it's fellow armor. Add 1 combat die on defense. This helmet protects the wearer from falling block trap damage."

That's an interesting possibility. Mind Point issues about Arkon's Spear restriction for the Wizard (or not) and the Spellcraft Amulet brought a different power to mind:

    Borin's Helm
    .
    This protective headpiece was separated from its matching armor long ago. This helmet gives you
    one extra combat die in defense. Moreover, it's magic increases your Mind Points by one. May not be
    used by the Wizard.
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Anderas » Tuesday November 13th, 2018 5:53am

Daedalus wrote:
Anderas wrote:
Dagger of Dowsing
This dagger has a small golden jewel set in its pommel. It may be used to attack with one Combat Die. Whenever you deal one or more Body Points of damage to a monster with this weapon, you may take a Treasure card. If that card is a Wandering Monster or Hazard, it has no effect and is shuffled back into the Treasure deck.

I'm not sure, to be honest... :?: That's strong, going through the treasure deck without risk.


It feels like a coin drop from a video game, which might be the intent? I also feel this one is too strong.

Then let's drop it. I just removed it from the card generation spreadsheet. One card less = less work.


The spiked shield, I still feel it is too strong. What if the hero needs to decide before he rolls for defense?

YOUR CONTENT-2
Spiked Shield
YOUR CONTENT-2
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
Y
YOUR CONTENT-2
This shield gives you one extra Combat Die in defense. You may use one defense die each turn instead of defending an adjacent attack, to attack that monster. Decide before rolling for defense. You may not use a battle axe or staff when using this hand-held armor. May not be used by the Wizard
YOUR CONTENT-2
Y
Y


I removed also the vulcan pot.



Finally: I made a preview for our 13 artifacts we have so far. I'd like to hit the brakes hard here - If it is not absolutely necessary, let's not add even more. That makes one artifact every second quest; that's a lot. We shan't make them "common" except if they can wear out (like the magical throwing dagger - by the way, we can add two or three of them; as they exist they make no additional work)

As always, I made a shared online google sheet so that you can access the text or edit it. Even if you don't edit (so far no-one of you did it); at least you can copy there and paste here if you want to discuss an artifact.

I used Goblin King's Artwork as far as possible. Mob Render has the picture of a crystal sword, maybe we should do something here: Adapt the text or find another picture. The Epaulets' Artwork is really GK's "Badass Armor", also, not yet happy - the picture could be used better in "Infernal armour", no? The Aero Greaves have the Rabbit Boot Picture on it, but in less good quality than the original. That's kind of not perfect in my eyes.


The "Good" artifacts are as per now:
Adamant Epaulets
Aero Greaves
Arcan's Spear
Battle Gauntlets.

Then we have
Chandreas Cape,
Hell Rod
Infernal Armour
Hammer of Vengeance,

that could make our cicle of "bad" Artifacts.

And in the category "Ah yes and before I forget it" we have:
Borin's Helm
Lightning Rod
Mob Render
Spellcraft Amulet
Spiked Shield

Ok, afterwards, we can of course discuss which artifact to put in which category. :-)

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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby j_dean80 » Tuesday November 13th, 2018 8:17am

Borin's Helm already has a pic. Just crop it off the Borin's Armor card.
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Re: HQ25 - Artifacts

Postby Anderas » Wednesday November 28th, 2018 6:49am

I am on the quest for artwork today. I don't want, no, I can't invest a day per picture to make it myself for so many cards. So here we have to repurpose some artists line art.

Sadly most stuff I find is from GW, and that's a bit problematic of course.

Lightning Rod is a Tesla Rod from the 19th century (so no copyright) plus the wizards staff plus the lightning from the lightning bolt spell.
Image

Chandra's Cape, again, half me half the net half HQ stuff.


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Borin's Helm is GW artwork copyright 1989
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