0. HQ25 - Design Document

[Daedalus]

Any needs for adding an ogre; can't they be handled by using models from the decided pack?
A recurring villain? A freaking evil cunning Beastman!
A hired mercenary? A chaos warrior with boosted stats!
Chaos Dwarf slave? A chained up Minotaur!

|_P
Actually I rather fancy a recurring beastman villain. Just popping up 2 or 3 times and then finally slain during the Siege arc.
He needs to be really strong/annoying to make the players REALLY hate him! The "NOT HIM AGAIN"-factor.
Does he cast the Escape spell? Any good ideas how to make him actually survive?

I like Chaos Dwarf slave of sorts to fill this role, but not a slave to the Chaos Dwarves. Rather, I'd like to see a named Chaos Dwarf who kisses up to Morcar, himself. I'm referring to Milnik of the Marvel Winter Special, the ugly Chaos Dwarf who leads Skulmar around in his review of the troops. It's his business to know about all the monsters under Morcar, so he could make a plausible link between factions as he recurs as a lacky liason.

Since according to Morcar, Milnik "knows the tunnels better than anyone," I think Milnik could always escape by retreating through a secret door/falling block combination. Alternatively, he could possess a miner's pick or bombs that allows him to collapse passages and walls to effect his retreat. Better yet, Pass Through Rock scroll. The Heroes would catch up to him with the other Chaos Dwarves at the end, perhaps leading the Heroes to them.

[Daedalus]

I'm glad I reviewed this topic--there's a lot to consider that has been forgotten:

• a special new rules addition I'd retain selling equipment, passing items, large monsters, in shock, spiral stairway, iron entrance and wooden exit, and new Artifacts such as Black Powder Keg. Not sure about New Treasure Cards yet. We add no Armory visits within chapters and bog traps. I'd say we might want to add rules for weaponless attack, attacking above and below stairways, and flooded squares (depending on their frequency of usse in the Quest Pack.) Do we wish to include rules that standardize NA-EU differences, such as falling block traps?
• an Armory addition spear, bracers?, cloak of protection?, ?
• an Alchemist's Shop addition Potion of Freedom (vs. paralysis), ?, ?, ?
• no expansion material in favor of new stuff. Some basics are okay, such as the iron entrance and wooden exit doors, trap doors, maybe stair tiles. Include Swamp spells and bog trap tiles. Maybe include broken wall tiles, bed and chair tiles, and optional spell sets.
• the art was declared to be original only. We're breaking from that due to a lack of artist volunteers. It's best to get permission if reasonably possible. Keep the established Hero Quest look.
• recurring villains for narrative cohesiveness A Beastman (Shaman?) has been put forward. So has a Chaos Dwarf. I'd also propose a Kobold thief or shaman with a spell-casting Kobold Trickster option.

[Anderas]

We add no Armory visits within chapters and bog traps.

Then we need to make smaller chapters, 2-3 quests playable in a single evening. My current (Beastman-Minotaur-Chaos) chapter has 5 quests, i would then subdivide it in 2 chapters.
Advantage of the original game was that you could play the quests independent, except for the last three and that were only three "strong connected" ones. The other story arc, Ragnar - Grak - Ulag, is rather loose and methinks fits perfect.
Kellar's Keep is for me the negative example of how not to do quest design.

Do we wish to include rules that standardize NA-EU differences, such as falling block traps?

I think it is worth a mention; also it's worth mentioning the Monster Stats so that we default on the same system.

an Armory addition spear, bracers?, cloak of protection?, ?

Most people have not only that, also they have some intermediate steps and some more steps so that the hero development takes more time and money.
I wouldn't mind making a new US-Style armory card or adding some base game compatible equipment cards to the EU system.
The effect is limited, however, because many of us use their own system.

an Alchemist's Shop addition Potion of Freedom (vs. paralysis), ?, ?, ?

hahaha potion of antiparalysis. You'd need to take it before you encounter the basi, so it's speculation or waste.
An alchemist's shop is found on nearly every expansion booklet. I think we should have one, but this time with reasonable prices. While we're at it, we can add a mercenaries shop page as well, just to have an overview somewhere in the book. I wouldn't mind adding one or two mercenaries with special abilities, too. The Dwarven Miner, stays for a single quests, many costly Gold Coins. Some average 3-Dice-Stats. Special ability: Can use the actions of three consecutive turns to break through a wall. Place a rubble marker next to him and (if there's a room behind the wall) a brokenw wall tile. If he is interrupted he needs to restart.

It's meant to be along those lines: Offering a Special Ability that isn't very strong but can save someone's life in very special circumstances. One, two or three of them. Or none, if no-one makes the cards.

recurring villains for narrative cohesiveness A Beastman (Shaman?) has been put forward. So has a Chaos Dwarf. I'd also propose a Kobold thief or shaman with a spell-casting Kobold Trickster option.

Yes! Let's have a villain that escapes once or twice. Easiest to do if it is chapter-internal, though. I have already my invincible Minotaur that arches three quests. Maybe I should give it a name.

[Daedalus]

We add no Armory visits within chapters and bog traps.

Then we need to make smaller chapters, 2-3 quests playable in a single evening. My current (Beastman-Minotaur-Chaos) chapter has 5 quests, i would then subdivide it in 2 chapters.
Advantage of the original game was that you could play the quests independent, except for the last three and that were only three "strong connected" ones. The other story arc, Ragnar - Grak - Ulag, is rather loose and methinks fits perfect.
Kellar's Keep is for me the negative example of how not to do quest design.

The design document was set up years ago and provides already considered viewpoint. That makes it a useful tool to keep us headed in the same, original direction as intended. That doesn't mean it is infallible, but we should be sure if we deviate that we are in reasonable agreement so that we don't constantly stall in division.

That said, I respect your position on Armory visits. We needn't require every chapter to adhere to the no-visits rule if there aren't any current objections, seeing how both Sjeng and Goblin-King dropped the project. I like allowing Quest writers the license to determine when in a chapter Armory visits are prohibited, if at all.

Do we wish to include rules that standardize NA-EU differences, such as falling block traps?

I think it is worth a mention; also it's worth mentioning the Monster Stats so that we default on the same system.

Yes, a section dedicated to those rules universally necessary for coordinated play between editions makes sense. I think they could be introduced as recommended for use.

an Armory addition spear, bracers?, cloak of protection?, ?

Most people have not only that, also they have some intermediate steps and some more steps so that the hero development takes more time and money.
I wouldn't mind making a new US-Style armory card or adding some base game compatible equipment cards to the EU system.
The effect is limited, however, because many of us use their own system.

I understand the Armory expansion will have a page in the Quest Book, like the Alchemist's Shop. I hadn't thought about it, but equipment cards for weapons and/or armor also would work well for the EU game. That's fine, an extra folder will handle it. Perhaps a new topic needs to be opened for suggesting and discussing weapons and armor that should be included. I still gotta comment on some other topics first. . . .

an Alchemist's Shop addition Potion of Freedom (vs. paralysis), ?, ?, ?

hahaha potion of antiparalysis. You'd need to take it before you encounter the basi, so it's speculation or waste.

Petrification prevents attacking, defending, (spell casting,) and movement. In typical Hero Quest fashion, the onset isn't specified as immediate. As a potion may be taken at any time, the wording of the Potion of Freedom could exploit this:

You may drink this effervescent mixture just as a Cloud of Chaos spell is cast or a Basilisk gazes upon you. The paralysis is immediately broken. May only be used once.

Our not:

You may pour this effervescent mixture down an adjacent Hero's throat who is paralyzed by a Cloud of Chaos spell or a Basilisk's gaze. The paralysis is immediately broken. May only be used once.

An alchemist's shop is found on nearly every expansion booklet. I think we should have one, but this time with reasonable prices.

Potion of Freedom Cost: 200 100 gold coins

While we're at it, we can add a mercenaries shop page as well, just to have an overview somewhere in the book. I wouldn't mind adding one or two mercenaries with special abilities, too. The Dwarven Miner, stays for a single quests, many costly Gold Coins. Some average 3-Dice-Stats. Special ability: Can use the actions of three consecutive turns to break through a wall. Place a rubble marker next to him and (if there's a room behind the wall) a brokenw wall tile. If he is interrupted he needs to restart.

It's meant to be along those lines: Offering a Special Ability that isn't very strong but can save someone's life in very special circumstances. One, two or three of them. Or none, if no-one makes the cards.

The design document is against including Mercenaries/Men-at-arms, and I concur as they were left for more high-powered expansions. Special abilities can be worked through equipment or artifacts instead. A Black Powder Keg can break through a wall as well as a Dwarven Miner.

If new Mercenaries were added, I'd want them to have lower stats. Less combat and more ability (like a scout) at a cheaper price.

recurring villains for narrative cohesiveness A Beastman (Shaman?) has been put forward. So has a Chaos Dwarf. I'd also propose a Kobold thief or shaman with a spell-casting Kobold Trickster option.

Yes! Let's have a villain that escapes once or twice. Easiest to do if it is chapter-internal, though. I have already my invincible Minotaur that arches three quests. Maybe I should give it a name.

Ha! Yes, you should.

[benvoliothefirst]

I'm trying to think of a period-appropriate, less generic name for the potion of freedom/anti-paralysis. Final Fantasy used "soft" as the name of a similar potion, but that's too short... Softsoap? Skin softener?

What beats rock? Paper? "Jack's Hammer"?

Anti-turgidity! What's Viagra spelled backward? "Argaiv"... "Argaiv's Antidote" has a nice ring to it. But WHO was Argaiv? A potions-master, no doubt, whose life was spent searching for a cure to the basilisks' venom that paralyzed his wife shortly after they were married. He did finally create such a concoction, but due to the lengthy exposure to the softening chemicals, his wife left him shortly after he freed her. He refuses to talk about why...

[Daedalus]

. . . . . .

[knightkrawler]

Anti-turgidity! What's Viagra spelled backward? "Argaiv"... "Argaiv's Antidote" has a nice ring to it. But WHO was Argaiv? A potions-master, no doubt, whose life was spent searching for a cure to the basilisks' venom that paralyzed his wife shortly after they were married. He did finally create such a concoction, but due to the lengthy exposure to the softening chemicals, his wife left him shortly after he freed her. He refuses to talk about why...

"...the softening chemicals..." - comedy gold