0. HQ25 - Design Document

[Sjeng]

MONSTERS
**********
HQ25 is using the monsters from the original game system, but not any of the expansions. (The exception being unique models such as the Wizards of Morcar or Sinestra. They are not a race, but unique characters whose models might be used.)

You're right! I missed that. It must be a oversight then because:

As for the ogres: well, as long as it's the standard ogres from the AtOH pack, I'm all for them
Did some searching and I can't seem to find any post where we opted against them completely, so go ahead, but make sure they FIT within the whole theme of the story arc.

And there's no way I'm losing my ogre NPC. That is not going to happen.

Yeah, sorry about that. I did say I thought we had agreed on Ogres being out. I only had little time to search, and didn't find any clear statements on it. And truthfully, I personally wouldn't mind a single ogre here or there. I do know we voted out the "faction" of ogres (all sorts of them), but I didn't recall that meant the AtOH types as well.

I just got back from a holiday in Paris, so I just didn't have time to spend on this. I will try to do so during my vacation.

I have 4 pages of unread posts to plow through, so I asked other members to help guide the project. Since GK was helping me right at the start already, and TMU and KK were in early as well, we all drafted a guideline, which was reviewed and I posted it just before I went on my holiday. I also pm'd GB about this, trying to explain it all, and that we would post a general guideline to avoid misunderstandings. So even though before I was unclear on the ogres, I did inform you of this guideline before I posted it.

That being said: should we allow a single ogre here and there? Just as 1 special monster? Since it's in the game already anyway, I personally would not mind, as log as we agree on the stats. Just 1 type, like a warrior. No warlords/chieftains/champions. Just asking.

[knightkrawler]

I'm against going for them as a monster type because:
1. Minotaurs are agreed upon, yet might be underused, and have VERY similar stats to Ogres. Let's not botch the bulls.
2. Ogres are too awesome to play a minor role. Their spotlight should be AtOH or a whole new quest pack.

I'm for using ONE Ogre as an NPC at a point in the quest pack where Minotaurs preferredly haven't been introduced. He could be a mercenary for the Kobolds or a slave of the Chaos Dwarfs (I see minotaurs better fitting here, too)
or *hint, hint* a boss for the Greenskin arc, leading an Orc & Goblin pack or whatchamacallit.
That ONE Ogre could - although defeated in combat - recur in two or three quests.
A character spotlight that is sorely missing in AtOH, not necessary for HQ25, but also not redundant in my eyes. Would be a nice touch to the greenskin arc. Tough leader with a specific objective, race and skin color variation, you know.

[TMU]

I would say no for the ogre, since that would mean that it would be another miniature for someone to buy. But I am not against it or anything

[Goblin-King]

A lot of things were never really 100% agreed upon in the name of moving to the next phase...
******

Definitely a no from me for using ogres as general monsters. We have the minotaur. It was decided upon. Let's use it. It doesn't need it's spotlight stolen.

I would vote no as well for a "special character"-ogre.
For me that would be like buying Kellars Keep, and then out of nowhere it tells you "oh yeah, you need an model from another expansion as well".
There is no such thing as "a single ogre here and there". Either they are out or they are in. There really isn't no middle ground in regard to acquiring models and presenting stats etc.
In the early phase when we discussed how to handle monsters, it was pretty clearly decided it should be game-system + new pack.
I can't help but feel that popping in an ogre feels out of place. Why an ogre? Why only an ogre? It really sticks out.

Any needs for adding an ogre; can't they be handled by using models from the decided pack?
A recurring villain? A freaking evil cunning Beastman!
A hired mercenary? A chaos warrior with boosted stats!
Chaos Dwarf slave? A chained up Minotaur!

[Sjeng]

Any needs for adding an ogre; can't they be handled by using models from the decided pack?
A recurring villain? A freaking evil cunning Beastman!
A hired mercenary? A chaos warrior with boosted stats!
Chaos Dwarf slave? A chained up Minotaur!

Well, I can see that. It's more in theme, and the minotaur is indeed in many ways similar to an ogre in bulkiness/strength.

Thanks for thinking of alternatives, I think these fit well, and I hope all can agree on that. So I'd like to ask everyone to go with that and move on

[Goblin-King]

Actually I rather fancy a recurring beastman villain. Just popping up 2 or 3 times and then finally slain during the Siege arc.
He needs to be really strong/annoying to make the players REALLY hate him! The "NOT HIM AGAIN"-factor.
Does he cast the Escape spell? Any good ideas how to make him actually survive?

[MrBigB]

Any needs for adding an ogre; can't they be handled by using models from the decided pack?
A recurring villain? A freaking evil cunning Beastman!
A hired mercenary? A chaos warrior with boosted stats!
Chaos Dwarf slave? A chained up Minotaur!

This feels 100% in the spirit of the original game (Chaos Sorcerer = Ragnar) LOVE IT.

|_P

Actually I rather fancy a recurring beastman villain. Just popping up 2 or 3 times and then finally slain during the Siege arc.
He needs to be really strong/annoying to make the players REALLY hate him! The "NOT HIM AGAIN"-factor.
Does he cast the Escape spell? Any good ideas how to make him actually survive?

A-W-E-S-O-M-E. I could put him in Q3 as the Hero's try to escape out of the dungeon a quick quest note about casting escape when he gets down to 1 BP (or gets a killing blow) seems easy enough, plus after after a couple rounds ending like that players will thrilled to actually kill him on the end

Maybe each time he pops up he gets buffed up a little? Keep it challenging

[TMU]

|Does he cast the Escape spell? Any good ideas how to make him actually survive?

Escape, or maybe just a secret door that closes or a stone collapses to it. Just so that heroes can't follow him. I guess anything goes that blocks heroes from following

[Count Mohawk]

Alternatively, you can give him a few minions to draw some of the Heroes' fire, or put a pit trap in front of him. And all you need to do for an Escape-fueled... escape, is have him cast it immediately upon taking damage.

By the way, are you guys channeling my ideas without telling me? Because my own Quest Pack also prominently features a recurring enemy, among other things.

[knightkrawler]

@ Goblin-king:
Making an Ogre special character is not about race, but about character.
If we have special characters with stats given in the notes and special abilities like spells, you'd need a different mini to represent it all the same, regardless if it's a different monster or the same as elsewhere in the quest. It's just fluff.

But I fully agree that the monsters we agreed upon should be represented by NPCs, too.
A Beastman Shaman and Warlord, a Chaos Dwarf Super-Engineer, a Kobold Dragonpriest, a Fimir Hag...
Those guys.
Making some of those recur through the arcs would help tie the arcs all together and imply an overall theme to the whole quest pack, rather underhandedly at first, then becoming more clear, which we set out to do.

So, reconsidering my previous post, I say no to all Ogredom altogether in this quest pack.