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0. HQ25 - Design Document

Brainstorming topics for the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Quest Pack.

0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby Sjeng » Friday July 25th, 2014 8:52am

HeroQuest25 design document
**********
I'm posting this to avoid unclarity about this community effort.


INTRODUCTION AND INTENT
**********
HQ25 is an expansion pack celebrating the 25th anniversary of HeroQuest by trying to be what COULD have been an official expansion
As such it is using the game system as a base and is basically independent of any other expansion in existence.
In effect meaning: You can play HQ25 using only the material supplied with the game system and HQ25.
The exception being the miniatures which must be acquired via third party.

In addition HQ25 is striving to be a fresh experience for both new and veteran players.
As such we should try and and keep all materials original and not just implement old materials.

Finally HQ25 should keep the simplicity of the original game system.
Other game systems exist for those who desire more fleshed out and detailed rules.
We are not trying to improve upon nor turn HQ into a different game.
We are simply making a quest pack that "could have been".


GAMES WORKSHOP AND INTELLCTUAL PROPERTIES
**********
While HeroQuest is a dead franchise only kept alive by fans, Games Workshop is very much an active company.
As such HQ25 will not include any references to anything Games Workshop/Warhammer related besides what already exists in the official HeroQuest material.
This includes but is not limited to: names, places and races.
The exception is generic terms like "Beastmen" and "Chaos Dwarf", while being found in the Warhammer world, aren't exclusive to it.


MONSTERS
**********
HQ25 is using the monsters from the original game system, but not any of the expansions. (The exception being unique models such as the Wizards of Morcar or Sinestra. They are not a race, but unique characters whose models might be used.)
In addition to the monsters from the game system HQ introduces a new range of monsters:
----------
Chaos Dwarfs
Beastmen
Minotaurs
Chaos Cultists
Kobolds
Basilisks

These monsters will have stats and abilities like any other monster.
There will NOT be any stats for boss/caster/special monsters. These will be put in the quest notes as needed.
Eg. A kobold sorcerer with higher stats and 3 spells - Orcs armed with crossbows - A beastman boss etc.

The original quests had several special monsters like the "Stone Chaos Warriors" from "The Lost Wizard".
Proxying the range of monsters like this is acceptable, but should be reserved for a single quest.
"Stone chaos warriors" should not be a recurring monster as that would turn it into a new addition to the range.

While the original game system DID use a chaos warlock as Sir Ragnar, proxy monsters in HQ25 should resemble what they are.
Eg. Don't use a Kobold as a Skaven.

It is strongly encouraged to focus on using the new monsters!

In general: Be mindful. It should always be clear what the normal/basic monsters are.
***If every monster is special, no monster is special!***


EQUIPMENT
**********
HQ25 uses all equipment from the game system. This includes the wizard exclusive items from the EU version.

In addition there will be an expanded armory with a couple of new pieces of equipment.
This will be a few select items "that was always missing" in the original armory. In the area of 2-4 new items (in addition to the wizard items).

A page in the beginning of the quest book will be dedicated to the expanded armory in the style of the potion shop from other expansions.
This page will just display the new items, not the entire armory which the players should already be familiar with.

***HQ25 will re-introduce the potion shop with a range of new potions tailored to this pack*** These may also be discussed and edited.


SPELLS
**********
HQ25 uses the four elemental decks and chaos deck from the game system.
In addition HQ25 introduces a new deck for the Evil Wizard.
This deck is the "Swamp Spell" and is intended to be used mainly by Kobold and Fimirs.

"Swamp Spell" should not exceed the original 12 Chaos Spells in scale.
The deck should only match the amount to the degree that they can all feel distinct in their effects.

"Swamp Spell" may be used by other monsters as well, but should mainly by used by Kobolds and Fimirs.
Chaos Dwarfs should focus on using "Chaos Spell" to keep the flavor of the two factions unique.


QUESTS
**********
To accommodate the 25th anniversary there will be 25 quests.
The quests will be separated into several chapters. Currently 5 chapters, but subject to change.
Each chapter is a mostly self-contained arc, though each chapter should bridge into the next.
The end result should be a coherent story.

A unique twist to this quest pack will be that the heroes can only use the armory between chapters.
It's the "light version" of the rule from "Attack of the Ogre Horde".
To facilitate this each quest will be marked with both chapter, quest number and quest name.
Eg: Quest 9 - Chapter 2 - The Dark Castle

Each quest should be fun and feel distinct.
It is encouraged to put little twists and unique features in every quest.
However, keep it simple. If it can't be explained in a few lines it's probably too complex.

Remember we have 25 quests to fill! Be mindful in regard to quest notes and quest sizes!
Don't fill the entire board and put in 15 quest notes in every quest!
If there's not enough room on a normal quest page for quest notes without re-sizing or compromising readability there are too many!
If a quest is starting to fill up, save some ideas for the next quest (or kill your darlings).

Be mindful of using stuff like special traps or doors from expansions! HQ25 should be playable with only the games system.
Even though they may not require any physical materials, their usage will still have to be explained in either the quest notes or the start of the book.

Finally HQ25 will be intended to play with 4 fresh heroes as an alternative to the original Quest Book.
The first quest they will have their starter equipment and 0 gold.
This should be reflected in the difficulty level.
With 25 quests HQ25 is equal to the game system + KK/RotWL.
This is more or less the difficulty level we are aiming for.
HQ25 should be challenging, but is not intended as a "Nightmare mode" for veteran players.


STORY
**********
The intro/epilogue and "Mentors messages" should be written in during the production phase.
At the very least loosely for the editors to be able to piece everything together in the end.

Note that story elements may be subject to change during production.
But a well written piece will likely need very little edit.


LAYOUT AND ART
**********
The aim is to make HQ25 resemble the existing expansions in regard to overall "look".
HQ25 will be using graphic and the general layout from the game system.
This includes but is not limited to: maps, fonts, cardbacks, icons.

All new materials like covers, cards and misc illustrations will be original art made specifically for HQ25.
Partly to protect the rights of other artists, but also to make HQ25 stand out.


MISC
**********
All quest packs introduces new elements and so will HQ25.
These are the elements that will be explained in the beginning of the book.
Eg. new traps, special doors or other game mechanics.

We should have a couple of well thought out new mechanics.
To warrant these they should be used throughout the entire pack, not just in a single quest.
(Single quest mechanics should simply be in the quest notes)

Again: HQ25 strives for the simplicity of the original game system! This section should be short and limited.
Basically HQ25 should be "plug and play". The player shouldn't need to read through several pages before actually playing.


EDITORIAL
**********
In the end phase, a few editors will be responsible for putting everything together.
The editors will be in supreme command and be free to change, move or delete anything!

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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday July 25th, 2014 9:24am

So we've got to take out the chaos gods and the ogres then, after I got the all clear to use ogres who were in it from the start? Oh and we're not allowed to use the WoM hero spells that I wrote into the wizards special artefact that people seemed to like?
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby TMU » Friday July 25th, 2014 1:52pm

Gold Bearer wrote:So we've got to take out the chaos gods and the ogres then, after I got the all clear to use ogres who were in it from the start? Oh and we're not allowed to use the WoM hero spells that I wrote into the wizards special artefact that people seemed to like?

If that is what the document states, then yes.
"There is no greater danger than playing it safe."


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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday July 25th, 2014 2:02pm

It doesn't, that's why I used :?:s. Hopefully the ogres are included as official monsters since they've always been in and I've already been told that I can use them, and have been working with them heavily.

The WoM hero spells were for the wizard artefact, not available from the start. It wasn't a problem before so I'm hoping it isn't now.

This would only be an issue if were planning on making any money from. If we were GW would be on us like a flash knowing them, but we're not, so where's the problem?
This was never a issue until KK realised he could use it.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby TMU » Friday July 25th, 2014 3:07pm

Check the GW part and monster part. It reads there ;) About the artefact I don't say anything.
"There is no greater danger than playing it safe."


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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday July 25th, 2014 4:34pm

No it doesn't! There's a list of new monsters but ogres aren't new and I checked by pointing out that they've been in from the start and were never removed and got the all clear to use them.

Any official content from any of the packs is allowed (with the exception of monsters) and I had the idea of using the hero WoM spells on the special wizard artefact and I thought that was the plan.

Using GW names isn't a problem because we're not making anything out of this. Look: http://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2491&p=42147#p42147

It's free advertising for them. We should just put it in the quest book that it belongs to them. If skavin were voted in as one of the official monsters do you think that anyone would be saying we shouldn't be using them? Of course not. They're GW too. This is just another attempt to attack what I've made sneakily through the back door. I think it's because I've put quite a few ideas into this and people don't like one person having so much input. I'm sure that if those same ideas had come from elsewhere there wouldn't be any problem.

It's ridiculous to be honest and I'm getting really sick of it. I didn't want it to go like this. I don't want to waste energy by struggling with every little thing. I was really enjoying creating content for this project but it's being ruined by a couple of people and that's a big shame.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby TMU » Friday July 25th, 2014 5:19pm

Sjeng wrote: GAMES WORKSHOP AND INTELLCTUAL PROPERTIES
**********
While HeroQuest is a dead franchise only kept alive by fans, Games Workshop is very much an active company.
As such HQ25 will not include any references to anything Games Workshop/Warhammer related besides what already exists in the official HeroQuest material.
This includes but is not limited to: names, places and races.
The exception is generic terms like "Beastmen" and "Chaos Dwarf", while being found in the Warhammer world, aren't exclusive to it.

Sjeng wrote: MONSTERS
**********
HQ25 is using the monsters from the original game system, but not any of the expansions. (The exception being unique models such as the Wizards of Morcar or Sinestra. They are not a race, but unique characters whose models might be used.)

It reads right there. :?
"There is no greater danger than playing it safe."


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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby knightkrawler » Friday July 25th, 2014 5:50pm

Gold Bearer wrote:If skavin were voted in as one of the official monsters do you think that anyone would be saying we shouldn't be using them? Of course not. They're GW too.


We would have called them
Ratmen
Vermyn
Vermin
Vermen
Deepchylde
Brood
The Breed
Nagor
Sskreek
...
...
...

The "not using names established by GW" is not just about intellectual property, but also about the lack of creativity it would show to borrow a combination of a miniature and name for it. The word "Skaven" is a neologism by GW, coined by GW in meaning. As opposed to that, "Chaos Dwarf" is a collocation of two words with allocated lexical meanings, as is Beastman (only contracted in spelling). There's a world of difference between those two.
I see no problem in actally incorporating the four chaos gods in the background, but calling them Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh would in my humble opinion be trespassing too obviously. It clearly shows we're deriving from other peoples' ideas, which of course we do, but it doesn't have to be so obvious, does it?
The chaos gods could be termed The Bloodless One, The Filthbearer, The Unforgiving, and The Faceless One, for example, if we feel the need to take that background into account deeper than anticipated.
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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby Gold Bearer » Friday July 25th, 2014 7:35pm

TMU wrote:
Sjeng wrote: MONSTERS
**********
HQ25 is using the monsters from the original game system, but not any of the expansions. (The exception being unique models such as the Wizards of Morcar or Sinestra. They are not a race, but unique characters whose models might be used.)

It reads right there. :?
You're right! I missed that. It must be a oversight then because:
Sjeng wrote:As for the ogres: well, as long as it's the standard ogres from the AtOH pack, I'm all for them ;)
Did some searching and I can't seem to find any post where we opted against them completely, so go ahead, but make sure they FIT within the whole theme of the story arc.
And there's no way I'm losing my ogre NPC. That is not going to happen.

knightkrawler wrote:The "not using names established by GW" is not just about intellectual property, but also about the lack of creativity it would show to borrow a combination of a miniature and name for it. The word "Skaven" is a neologism by GW, coined by GW in meaning. As opposed to that, "Chaos Dwarf" is a collocation of two words with allocated lexical meanings, as is Beastman (only contracted in spelling). There's a world of difference between those two.
I see no problem in actally incorporating the four chaos gods in the background, but calling them Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh would in my humble opinion be trespassing too obviously. It clearly shows we're deriving from other peoples' ideas, which of course we do, but it doesn't have to be so obvious, does it?
The chaos gods could be termed The Bloodless One, The Filthbearer, The Unforgiving, and The Faceless One, for example, if we feel the need to take that background into account deeper than anticipated.
If I'm using something that belongs to someone else I'm always up front about it and give them the credit they deserve rather than being devious and crafty about it by trying to hide it where it's from. That would definitely (and rightfully) get their backs up if they find out about it.

And would be exremely surprised if we were calling them anything other than skavin.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

Expanded Combined Spells: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4296

A psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it. - Terence McKenna
DMT - The Spirit Molecule: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwZqVqbkyLM


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Re: 0. HQ25 - Design Document

Postby TMU » Friday July 25th, 2014 7:58pm

Gold Bearer wrote:
TMU wrote:
Sjeng wrote: MONSTERS
**********
HQ25 is using the monsters from the original game system, but not any of the expansions. (The exception being unique models such as the Wizards of Morcar or Sinestra. They are not a race, but unique characters whose models might be used.)

It reads right there. :?
You're right! I missed that. It must be a oversight then because:
Sjeng wrote:As for the ogres: well, as long as it's the standard ogres from the AtOH pack, I'm all for them ;)
Did some searching and I can't seem to find any post where we opted against them completely, so go ahead, but make sure they FIT within the whole theme of the story arc.
And there's no way I'm losing my ogre NPC. That is not going to happen.

But you see, that now we did find that where it says it is not good to use them. I am not the only one deciding on this so I won't put a definit no-no on that, but still I think we will stick to these rules posted here. :p
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