HeroQuest - Amped Edition (custom rule & quest book)

[Stoner81]

Still going through the spells and adding the tick boxes to the other spell schools along with descriptions of each spell. I have tweaked a lot of them and changed the wording to make them more clear so once I am done editing the character sheet version I will need to go back and edit the spell descriptions in the spell school section so as they match... it is taking forever



Stoner81.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Stoner81,

I have every intention at some point to set aside the time that your Amped Edition deserves for a proper read through and hopefully provide you with some useful feedback, however there are only so many hours in the day and sadly not all of those can be dedicated to Hero Quest

That said I have had a quick glance through your rules and there was one thing that I thought I would mention considering your recent posts.

Have you considered (and if you have, would you be willing to reconsider) splitting your custom rulebook document into more than one document, the main one covering the rules (as per the original "Rules of Play" and one of more other documents covering the card text (as per the original cards / screen/ armoury)

The reason why I mention this, is because I have done that with my own house rules and found it beneficial. For one it makes several smaller documents instead of one large one which is more modular and easier to handle (read / review / download / print etc), secondly it helps me think about and try and keep a clear distinct between rules and other text that isn't rules (like you have done with removing the ‘use once and discard’ text from the spell cards and incorporated it into the rules around spell casting).

Thirdly and most relevant at this moment in time, I later split my "scrolls", my terminology for the text that isn't rules (cards, screen, armoury) into multiple documents - one for the gamemaster (traps, monsters, dread spells) and one for the heroes (treasure cards, equipment cards / armoury, hero spell cards)
This means that I have all my spell card text for heroes arranged in a document separated into sections: Wizard spells, Elf spells and so on (you would need more splits) which enables me to print off the generic spell book containing all the text for all the spells, for a particular hero, for example the Wizard or the Elf, as a spell book, so that they can put that with their character sheet, having ticked off in pen the spells that they ‘know’ and in pencil the ones that they have used in a particular quest.

This means that all the spell card text is in one place and one place which saves me having to maintain the same text in two separate places and then forever have to keep them aligned every time I make changes.

It also means that spell management (the card text, which ones you know, which ones you have used and so on) is kept separate from the character sheet so that they stay the same for all heroes, spell casters or otherwise.

[Stoner81]

It isn't something I have thought about doing since the whole premise behind it was to have everything in one rule book. However, I believe the same, or similar, effect can be had by just printing out the entire book and then photocopying the relevant parts as needed for either yourself (EWP) or for the Heroes depending on the need. Having it all in one document makes it easier for me to edit since I don't have to keep track of multiple files at once since everything is all together but I can see the benefit of what you are saying. If that works for you then go for it by all means

Thanks for taking the time to read my creation once you get round to it. A lot is still being worked on at the moment especially the spells (I have found so many typos and bit that many spells have been reworded for better clarity) and the character sheet needs a huge overhaul really since I'm not happy with it as it currently is.

Also note that I haven't added the acid pools from the Mythic tier books since I don't think the icons are in Heroscribe yet(?) but as/when/if they get added then they will be added to my book too.



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Been a few days but I have finally... at long bloody last, gotten the spell descriptions added to the character sheet. While doing this entire process I found a bunch of typos and other errors that have been fixed. In addition I have also changed/re-worked some spells since they were not well written or clashed with other abilities etc. Now I have to go back through and update the main spell schools lists to match what is on the character sheets. All the spell schools now have a tick box next to the school name and each spell so as a player can simply tick the box to show which schools and which spells they have access to (this is also written on the character sheet).

Speaking of character sheet, that too has had an update/overhaul so hopefully it's a little better.



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Added Zenithfleet's idea about using Grins Stone Map in Kellar's Keep to my quest book ---> viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6402



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

A few updates folks, sorry it has been a while been busy with that pesky thing called life

Quest Book - Added the quest notes for marker "G" in New Beginnings and also added in a missing door in "The Trial".

Rule Book - Reworked the Druid spell "Shapeshift", fixed a bunch of grammatical errors and updated Holy Water in the random treasure table. Also reworked the Theif ability Stealth to Stealth Strike - grants +1 Attack Die as long as another ally is adjacent to the monster you are attacking.



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Updated the rulebook since a bunch of typo's needed to be fixed and things added that were missing (like tick boxes on the character sheets). Play testing is going well so far

New book is uploaded.



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

New uploads today folks!

I have split the rule book down a little bit so there are not separate downloads for the character sheet and spell sheets to hopefully aid in printing out since not all Heroes will use spells etc. The potions sheet is still a part of the main character sheet though. As you may notice I have tick boxes to the spell sheet titles and to each spell. This is in order to facilitate what spell schools are known and which spells are known the Hero by simply put a tick in the box

The character sheet has been updated also which will hopefully be better now. It was found the during playing working out how much Attack and Defence a Hero had was a small issue, as a result there is now the "Modified Totals" box in which is placed the totals of your Hero after additions/subtractions etc and depending on what weapon you are using. Hopefully the box is big enough to write in what weapon is being used and the amount of dice needed (if not then please let me know and I will make it bigger).

Also included an "Injuries" table to it to track Hero injuries more easily. I have also ruled that if a Hero gains 5 injuries or more then they must be retired from the game and a new one started.

I have also updated the rule book a little about searching for traps and for traps by doors. These can be searched for now by searching the door for traps. If a trap is found then the Heroes are told there is a trap but they do not know the sort. Also fixed some formatting issues and other typos.



Stoner81.

[Stoner81]

Rulebook updated with some clarifications and also updated the quest book by fixing a missing grey area in Castle of Mystery.



Stoner81.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Stoner81,

Your preface states "the aim of this book is to remove inconsistencies and grey areas in the original rules..." so in the spirit of this can I recommend that you take a look at this thread Polishing the Second Edition as that lists problems found in the original game, almost 40 so far and still growing, plus linked discussions and in many cases resolutions, which whilst you may not choose to implement the same fixes, might still give you pointers around inconsistencies and grey areas in the original rules that need addressing.

My initial review of your Amped Edition is below, lots of points, some of value some less so, but all are intended purely in the spirit of constructive criticism of a project that I admire!

Please note that at this stage I have only started to review the "Complete Rule Book" PDF and even then I have ignored everything that is in tables (which is most of it) but I can only cope with bite-sized chunks.

I’m also interested in your approach to making a “combined” ruleset, and why you chose this approach and how you found it, in the sense that I think there are 3 possible approaches.

A. Start with NA edition and where there are gaps, inconsistencies, issues, problems then look to EA editions for guidance.
B. Start with EA Second Edition and where there are gaps, inconsistencies, issues, problems then look to EA editions for guidance.
C. A true hybrid, combine both sets into a single document, then eradicate the duplication and compare the differences and choice the better option.

Personally when I started my first “published” integrated rules I went with option A, seduced by the big ticket items, multiple monster BP and Chaos spells, into assuming that the NA edition was an “upgrade” of the EA Second Edition, however I more recently reverted to option B (the one used for “Polishing the Second Edition”) as I found that many issues from SE either weren’t resolved by NA, or the resolution introduced more issues than it fixed, NA edition introduced new rules or rule changes and associated issues where the SE rules were already adequate (allowing searching of pits as a separate room, splitting out trap and secret doors searches, saving yourself from death through a healing spell) and some text changes that were not needed and decreased clarity so on balance of the two I found the SE to be a more robust starting point. Option C may be logically the best option but it is an enormous amount of painstaking work to compare and contrast the two to identify where two differently phrased rules are effectively and functionally the same (and one can be removed as a duplicate) and where two rules are similarly worded but are functionally different, before you even get onto deciding which is the better option. Also as neither the SE or NA editions are particularly well formed in terms of their own internal logic and idea of trying to fuse the two sounds like an accident waiting to happen!

Preface

1. Whilst I don't oppose the use of the term "Dungeon Master" the original game already has the generic term "Evil Wizard Player" that represents that role which is distinct from any characters that player may play such as “Morcar” or “Zargon” (or indeed “Mentor”, or “The Witch Lord” and many others). This distinction is reasonably clear in the SE version (EWP is used 36 times and Morcar only 4 times, specifically referencing the character), but the NA edition blurred the lines here by using the specific character name "Zargon" instead of the "Evil Wizard Player" generic role label. Changing “Evil Wizard Player” to “Dungeon Master” won’t break anything (apart from possibly D&D IP ) but in my opinion doesn’t add anything either.

2. Referring to the Dungeon Master / Evil Wizard Player and other players as “they, them or theirs” would be equally consistent as referring to them as “he, him or his”

3. Just an observation that in the preface you mention expanding the character sheet use and moving away from cards to reduce clutter and create more space around the table (I have incidentally gone the other way and reduced the role of the character sheet to be almost entirely used solely between quests as a permanent record of your characters development, and in-game use of cards and tokens, but each has advantages and disadvantages) but in a later section you mention that the new character sheet is A4, so roughly four times the size of the original A6ish and recommend the use of a clipboard for each player to save space around the table.

Character Creation and Sheet

4. You mention under Body points that being “reduced to 0 or lower Body Points could result in being killed” and refer the reader to the combat section but in that section it states “if a player character is reduced to 0 Body points or lower then he dies!” but also “Important Note – If a character has 1 Body Point left and takes multiple points of damage, they are only reduced to zero Body Points”. This last statement contradicts the two earlier statements around a Body point total being lower than zero.

5. In terms of general layout, having 19 pages – 1 “Schools of Magic” page and 18 pages of spell tables - to get through to arrive at the starting the game feels odd and I think would put off many new players having their first read through of the rules, perhaps all of that could be moved to later in the rulebook, possibly an appendix?

6. On a similar theme, perhaps for speed of getting players playing their first game you could introduce a new section, giving them the option to get started with a limited number of “pre-generated” characters, such as “Human Barbarian” and so on, and then moving the 2 full pages of Character classes tables to later in the document, to digest once they have played a few games (and died) and are familiar with the basic rules.

Schools Of Magic

7. Last line reads that “adjacent” includes diagonal is that a specific exception to the general meaning of the term adjacent for the purposes of spells or does that mean that “adjacent” cover both orthogonally adjacent and diagonally adjacent squares in general?

Starting the Adventure: Order of Rules

8. You state that rules need to be interpreted in the following order:
i. Quest Notes
ii. Monster or special monster rules
iii. Equipment and magic
iv. This rulebook

However this is a little confusing as both “monster or special monster rules” and “equipment and magic” appear in this rulebook so categories ii, iiii and iv are essentially in the same order, this may just be wording. This also doesn’t establish a precedent if one is needed between Equipment rules and Magic rules (which may be intentional)

Starting the Adventure: Order of Play

“Play moves round until it comes back to the Dungeon Master who can then move any and all monsters on the game board that have been discovered by the players. Monsters who have not been found cannot be moved until they are discovered”

9. This piece of text is confusing to me, the use of the word “found” and “discovered” in the same sentence implies that the two terms are different but the difference is not explained. The DM is restricted to moving monsters on the game board, would any monsters that have not been “discovered” or “found” be on the gameboard? Also no restriction around whether the DM can move monster 1, move monster 2, take an action with monster 1 and so on.

10. List of what you can do on your turn includes movement, perform an action (actions are listed out separately), drink a potion, use a fate point. This implies that drinking a potion and using a fate point can be done on your turn but are not actions, but there are no restrictions mentioned around whether these non-actions can be done once or multiple times during your turn and no mention of other non-action like opening doors, opening chests, looking and so on

11. Your optional rule of unthreatened movement, I think is flawed. The general idea is fine and is common to many similar games, but HQ doesn’t have any way of discriminating between turns on which monsters are present and those where they are not, in fact monsters can appear during a characters turn. The great thing about HQ rolling for movement is that it contains an in-built initiative function, you open a door revealing a monster 8 squares away, you roll your movement dice, a high roll indicates you have got the jump on the monster and can reach and attack first, a low roll indicates that you have failed to get the jump and your movement falls short and the monster takes the initiative and moves into attack first. This optional rule allows a player to exploit this by ‘taking the option of a fixed 8 square movement’ (as there are no monsters on the board) then opening the door and revealing the inevitable monster, and ensuring that he gets first strike, which defeats the richness of the HQ movement roll mechanism.

Enough for now my fingers are getting tired…