Fixing "The Spirit Queens Torment"

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

In fairness, Tolkien's work actually establishes that Sauron literally created the orcs. As far as HQ goes, I don't believe any edition has stated this to be the case with Zargon. I would also point out that not being inherently evil is not the same as not being evil. Certainly most orc societies and thus individuals are evil of their own choice. They weren't corrupted by Zargon so much as they chose to side with the enemy of their enemies. The fact that exceptions to the rule exist does not invalidate the rule, it just makes one think a bit more about the consequences of their actions.

It was actually Morgoth, that created the orc race... which was a core inspiration (along with a lot of Tolkien creatures - in the initial stages of development) for the orcs in the Warhammer Old World (which is the setting for the 1989 game canon), I never said Morcar/Zargon had anything to do with the creation of orcs, I was merely pointing out that somethings (places, races and creatures alike) can quite simply be considered "Evil".

As evidenced in humans, some people without influence or trauma simply enjoy cruelty and by some peoples standards are "evil".

Vikings were viewed as "evil" incarnate and the scourge of the "civilized" world, but to them it was just them living how they lived. In the same subjective take, certain humans within their culture partake in cannibalism, from the opposite side of the fence this is viewed as "evil"...

The main point I am making is that AH have for the most part taken a grim fantasy setting and made it extremely tame with only a simple central archetype villain as the cause for all the evil in the world... however all of this digresses from the topic of fixing the Artifact issue in The Spirit Queens Torment...

[Markus Darwath]

It was actually Morgoth, that created the orc race... which was a core inspiration (along with a lot of Tolkien creatures - in the initial stages of development) for the orcs in the Warhammer Old World (which is the setting for the 1989 game canon), I never said Morcar/Zargon had anything to do with the creation of orcs, I was merely pointing out that somethings (places, races and creatures alike) can quite simply be considered "Evil".

As evidenced in humans, some people without influence or trauma simply enjoy cruelty and by some peoples standards are "evil".

I stand corrected on the Tolkien. It's been a very long time since I read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, and I just wasn't able to slog my way past the prologue of the Silmarillion (sp?) in spite of several attempts.

But you kind of make my point here. -Some- humans are just born evil, but not all, nor even all members of any readily identifiable sub-group. And you also allude to cultural differences as to how evil is defined. If orcs (and goblins) are natural intelligent creatures, as opposed to being created or summoned, then it makes no sense for them to all be inherently evil without exception. Fimir/Abominations and the 0MP undead, there's no problem with recognizing those as evil simply by existing.

Vikings were viewed as "evil" incarnate and the scourge of the "civilized" world, but to them it was just them living how they lived.

Actually, Vikings were not a people, it was an activity/lifestyle. At various points the Norse, Danes, Saxons and others engaged in Viking and it wasn't universal to their nationality, nor did all of those peoples approve of it.

The main point I am making is that AH have for the most part taken a grim fantasy setting and made it extremely tame with only a simple central archetype villain as the cause for all the evil in the world...

I disagree. I see plenty of people/creatures that are evil just by their own choice. Most of them ally with Zargon, but that has much more to do with the theme of the heroes as participants specifically in the fight against Zargon. There's plenty of room for evil that doesn't come from Zargon. In fact, I could be mistaken but I don't believe the civil strife in Elethorn for MotM and RotDM are specifically Zargon's doing. It arose from sinister ambition in a member of the elven royal family.
I guess I'm kind of saying that having all orcs be inherently evil is what actually makes the setting more tame and less grim and gritty, because there's never any moral quandary about butchering them on sight. Brutality is just offhandedly justified and sanitized "because they're evil."

[Vorimir]

At the end, Sinestra was helped by Zargon and she was being influenced by a dread spiritlike creature so...
I also think they turned a barbarian grim fantasy world into another random today d&d world with orcs paladin, dwarven wizards and the list goes one.