Hero Collection II: Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Oct-Dec '22)

[Kurgan]

I think the Magical throwing Dagger is an item on itself, one use only. The Bandolier has standard knives only.
I am still surprised about some people has a special skill in creating problems and overcomplicate things

To be fair we didn't have all of the info all at once when the pack was first revealed, so speculation was bound to happen.

[Kurgan]

I think the Magical throwing Dagger is an item on itself, one use only. The Bandolier has standard knives only.
I am still surprised about some people has a special skill in creating problems and overcomplicate things

Just a few side questions for the Magical Throwing Dagger (MTD):
1.) If the Wizard finds a MTD, would he need to equip it prior to throwing? Some here at the inn play an action to change equipment.
2.) Can the MTD be used as a regular dagger with the 1 combat dice attack instead of being thrown?

It's a throwing dagger, so single use only, you can't use it to get infinite unblockable attacks (which would certainly be a much better perk than throwing it!). And an adjacent attack with a dagger is 1 (blockable) die, just like unarmed combat.

Say more what you mean about "equipping"... do you mean in terms of whether an Ice Gremlin can steal the magical throwing dagger from the hero (since the weapon in his hand can't be stolen)? I would say the item can't be "equipped" in that way. It's something you take out to throw. But it's different than Borin's Armor which you have to wear to get the bonus. That's how I think it was intended to be used. If you prefer, per Zargon's privilege, to treat it as a magical attacking dagger, that would be much more powerful!

[wallydubbs]

Yes, I meant it as a single combat attack dice, never leaving the heroes hand he can still attack with 1AD.
I'm aware, once it's thrown it's an automatic 1 hit and it's gone.

And by equip, I mean if the Wizard is holding a staff (a 2-handed weapon) and he takes out the Dagger. That would count as switching weapons. Some Zargon's play that as an action.

[Kurgan]

Yeah and some have rules for dual wielding (a homebrew of course... the Rogue being the first official exception to that!), but by default switching isn't an action (or it's a "free action") the only time that presents a problem in my opinion when it's someone trying to cheat with the Shield plus Battle Axe/Staff, in those cases it would make sense to implement something if they are trying to stretch those rules to always get the benefit from both pieces (but I would let the hero carry both, not be forced to "drop" one).

[cynthialee]

And it brings me to this question...


Can the Rogue use all skill cards in a single turn if applicable? As a difficult mode Zargon I tend to think you get to chose 1 card per turn, maybe 2 if the character is a 'Champion'.

[Kurgan]

All the Rogue Skills are passive. So they are intended to "stack." I guess if you wanted to have the player be forced to choose only one at a time, that's your prerogative as Zargon! I don't personally think it would break the game.

In Space Crusade there is a similar phenomenon with the Eldar Exarchs... they have a lot of abilities that are in effect for the entire "mission" (and yet they are not completely unstoppable).

[HispaZargon]

So, do you think the Rogues Skills are not well explained on their cards? Probably yes... or not too bad, really.

I mostly agree with QorDar about the rules do not limit anywhere if the attacks performed by the Rogue are only close combat ones, I think the Rogue rules intentionally allow ranged attacks with the daggers when using the skills Ambidextrous and Opportunistic Striker, even a combination of both (1 close combat attack with a shortsword or a dagger and 1 ranged attack in the same turn with another dagger from the Bandolier, for example).

Another point I see is the quantity of daggers inside the Bandolier... Zargon twitter account said that "a zillion daggers looks silly to me" when refering to the Bandolier (see picture below), which I think confirms it contains infinite daggers... however, the Bandolier card says that "you are always considered to be armed with a dagger", not with infinite daggers. What does this mean for me? Well, it means for me that the Rogue has many daggers inside the Bandolier but not an infinite number, so maybe he needs to limit their use a bit. How this limitation is represented in the game for me? Well, his starting weapon is a Dagger, which will wield in one hand, AND he also starts with the Bandolier, which will provide him another Dagger in the other hand. What happens if the Rogue throws a dagger? Could we regain it with ANOTHER dagger from the Bandolier? In my opinion, he should not, since the Bandolier only counts as "a" Dagger, not as "two" Daggers. If the Rogue wields two Daggers (one from the Bandolier) and throws one of them, from such moment he will only wield one Dagger, the only one provided by the Bandolier. If he throws it after that, he will regain another Dagger from the Bandolier, but he would only have one Dagger in hands until he buy another in the Armory.

Just another interpretation of the rules, but if we read them strictly, maybe the Bandolier is not overpowering the Rogues so far.

Zargon twit from 04/Oct/2022:

Zargon_Twitter_2022-10-07.jpg

[cornixt]

It seems like people are trying to overcomplicate things by treating the item dagger and the bandolier dagger as separate things that you need to hold simultaneously to use the Ambidextrous skill, and that throwing both in a single turn means you can't use the skill again because the bandolier only refills one. Twitter Zargon is just scoffing at the idea that the rogue needs another dagger in addition to the bandolier dagger since the bandolier just keeps producing more of them anyway - the "looks silly to me" seems more like a judgement on the appearance of the bandolier.

Make things easier on yourself and just assume that the rogue can use the Ambidextrous skill to throw two daggers from the bandolier in the same action.

[Kurgan]

If we're going to nitpick like that then wouldn't losing your bandolier and just happening to have two daggers mean you get the double attack?

The bandolier just means you always have the power of a single dagger and a toolkit.

[HispaZargon]

Hohoho... I was sure this would lead to a good debate.

Another question derived from some comments I read on Facebook: assuming the Rogue Skills are passive abilities since they do not need performing any extra action by the Hero to be used, do you think they may be combined together in the same turn? For example are you sure 'Ambidextrous' and 'Opportunistic Strike' may be both used during the same attacking action? Yes? No? Why? Thanks.