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*OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon Hill

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby KentKaliber » Tuesday March 28th, 2023 11:43pm

UPDATED to add Rise of the Dread Moon.
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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby Sonic Whammy » Friday August 4th, 2023 2:11am

Make a note to add the free quest Knight Fall in between Mage of the Mirror and Rise of the Dread Moon.
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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby HispaZargon » Friday August 4th, 2023 8:00pm

In my humble opinion I don't see clear if online quest Knight Fall occurs after MOTM.

The only details we know are that it occurs after ROTWL and before ROTDM, which allows a lot of options where to be placed.

Is there any official communication from Hasbro about when should be placed? They only recomended to play it before ROTDM, but I think we don't know exactly when its story happens.


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby HispaZargon » Tuesday August 22nd, 2023 6:52pm

Hi,

Here you have the difficulty results I have obtained for each quest using my HZ-Model v.1.0.0, ordered following the official order defined by Hasbro:

Image

It seems that current Hasbro intentions go more in the line of creating challenging quest packs, for experienced players, but trying to not cross the high difficulty lines crossed by classic FH and MoM packs.

More information about this results, please check this post.


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday August 22nd, 2023 10:17pm

Where would you put Rogar's Hall?


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby HispaZargon » Wednesday August 23rd, 2023 3:35am

Well, Rogar Hall has around 8000 - 9000 DPs using my model, which is crazy for a beginners quest. Additionally all of its story finally results to be an illusion, so I decided not to include it in the charts to avoid polluting them with those results.


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday August 23rd, 2023 10:52am

I revisited Rogar's Hall again recently and despite it being called "training" I am thinking maybe we shouldn't view it as a "first ever" quest, and more like a "test of the greatest heroes" (note all of Mentor's talk early on about how they are not yet true Heroes, on the path to becoming Heroes, etc. before the Trial).

You could view RH as a trial by fire that "everyone loses" like Star Trek's Kobayashi Maru (meant to gauge your reaction to a hopeless situation) or as a real test of some veteran heroes who have been away from the game for awhile (which in reality is I think what Baker was going for with this, because both he and most of his intended audience had been away from the game for many years).

I suppose that would mess up the timeline, since Avalon Hill's new chronology freely mixes classic era quests with Mythic exclusives and the new retail releases. I would see it more like this:

Game System, Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord (all released in 1989, "revised" to the NA rules in '90, '91), Against the Ogre Horde (1990), Wizards of Morcar (1991),
Mage of the Mirror (1992), Frozen Horror (1992), [Wizard Quest Pack, Dwarf Quest Pack in that order, probably 1993]
Next...

Rogar's Hall (2020), Prophecy of Telor, Spirit Queen's Torment, Crypt of Perpetual Darkness ('20; in order of them being unlocked), Rise of the Dread Moon (2022)

I think Knightfall rightly goes before Rise of the Dread Moon since it was intended to be the "prequel quest" to it. New Beginnings (2022) could go before Knightfall, as a start for the party of heroes who are brand new who begin the new adventures. The Forsaken Tunnels of Xor Xel (2021) would go before that one, even though storyline wise it is tied to Kellar's Keep (but is really more in keeping with the theme of Return of the Witch Lord).

So I have a bias of playing them in release order, but I also agree with the idea of playing them in order of increasing difficulty if played with the same party of characters that have been increasing in strength (starting off with a new party is always possible to reset the trajectory).

Then again, in terms of remake editions everything changes. We could view it in terms of Avalon Hill releases (the dates are approximate since some customers got stuff much earlier than the official dates:

Rogar's Hall, (Oct, 2020) online
Game System, Kellar's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord, Prophecy of Telor, Spirit Queen's Torment, Crypt of Perpetual Darkness (Oct, 2021) [retail GS was out shortly after]
Forsaken Tunnels of Xor Xel (Dec, 2021) online [about the same time the retail versions of KK/ROTWL came out]
New Beginnings (Apr, 2022) online
Into the Northlands (July, 2022) online
Frozen Horror (July, 2022)
Mage of the Mirror (Nov, 2022)
Knightfall (July 15, 2023) online
Rise of the Dread Moon (July 15, 2023)
Prophecy of Telor (Fall 2023) * not yet released, revisions unknown
Spirit Queen's Torment (Fall 2023) * not yet released, revisions unknown
Against the Ogre Horde (Q1 2024, after Jan 15th's Path of the Wandering Monk) * not yet released

In the Companion App the online quests are all placed in their own section apart from the others, as optional adventures. The quest packs are arranged in the same basic order (though you can start wherever you like on whatever quest you wish):

GS, KK, ROTWL, FH, MOTM, ROTDM. Version 1.8 arranges them in two rows instead of a linear map, but the "Pulse Exclusives Quests" (online) are always at the end.

Digressions and tangents aside, I think Rogar's Hall could be a fine challenge for a party of heroes who has finished the quests up to 1992 (even though a large number of players frankly did not get to play FH/MOTM... whether because they lived outside of the US or didn't get a chance to own them in their short shelf life). It is a test of the skills of the veteran players of the classic era. Post-release, as it includes the Mentor figure, it is intended for the Mythic owners to play, and could be attempted after completing the GS, KK/ROTWL but before Prophecy of Telor/Spirit Queen's Torment/Crypt of Perpetual Darkness, I would say, as a prelude to the "new" material. It was released as a kind of playtest alongside the Druid, Warlock and Bard playtests I think, and probably works better if the Potions of Healing are treated as +4 instead of 1d6 (note the incorrect graphic used in the promotional material of the Avalon Hill page). Lots of speculation on my part of course... vs. the "official" announcements of Avalon Hill today, so take it with a grain of salt. ;)


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby manaknight14 » Tuesday June 11th, 2024 9:24am

Reviving this thread because I saw a screenshot somewhere of a Discord (I think) conversation between HispaZargon and Doug Hopkins regarding the order placement of Against the Ogre Horde. HZ basically said something like "In the old days AtoH took place immediately after RotWL. Is that where it should still go or should it change with all these other expansions out now?" Doug replied that the original placement of immediately after RotWL was still the best time to play the new AtoH, so we have an official(ish) confirmation that Against the Ogre Horde should go between Return of the Witch Lord and Into the Northlands.

Still haven't seen any word on Jungles of Delthrak, but the pack isn't even out yet. I noticed that JoD is the first expansion to incorporate something that was originally introduced in Crypt of Perpetual Darkness (the grasping vines trap). Could this be the first pack to get placed after CoPD?
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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby HispaZargon » Tuesday June 11th, 2024 11:59am

manaknight14 wrote:Reviving this thread because I saw a screenshot somewhere of a Discord (I think) conversation between HispaZargon and Doug Hopkins regarding the order placement of Against the Ogre Horde. HZ basically said something like "In the old days AtoH took place immediately after RotWL. Is that where it should still go or should it change with all these other expansions out now?" Doug replied that the original placement of immediately after RotWL was still the best time to play the new AtoH, so we have an official(ish) confirmation that Against the Ogre Horde should go between Return of the Witch Lord and Into the Northlands.

Yes, you are fully right in these afirmations.

manaknight14 wrote:Still haven't seen any word on Jungles of Delthrak, but the pack isn't even out yet. I noticed that JoD is the first expansion to incorporate something that was originally introduced in Crypt of Perpetual Darkness (the grasping vines trap). Could this be the first pack to get placed after CoPD?

Interesting point... but I honestly don't see enough strong the link with vines traps... so if I had to make a guess, I would go to practical thinking, so I would say that maybe this new JoD questpack should be placed BEFORE CoPD, why? Because CoPD has not been published for retail so I would be surprised if Hasbro thinks that JoD should be played after a questpack never released for the general public. Additionally, the special characters mechanics introduced in JoD goes in line with the same mechanic introduced for the first time in RotDM, so it makes sense to me that maybe JoD should be played inmediatelly after RotDM. Of course all this is just speculation from my side, and probably the real intention of Hasbro is allowing JoD to be played in any moment, but at the same time they have demonstrated before that questpacks order is not something totally ignored by Hasbro during questpacks developments, so...


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Re: *OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon H

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday June 11th, 2024 6:23pm

CoPD ends on a cliffhanger (perhaps one that will never be officially followed up on), but then so does ROTWL. My idea in this modern era has been it was intended all along that the players were to write the conclusions or "next quests" in terms of those ambiguous endings, rather than awaiting an official completion. Otherwise you'd have to say those quests are last (both of them?).

Other than the cliffhanger thing I no longer have any strong opinions about where CoPD should go in terms of chronology, except probably sometime after the GS due to its difficulty. Maybe the Dragon encounter could be loosely tied in with the first Dave Morris novel (where the heroes encounter but don't get to fight a dragon... and in the barbarian one he fights a dragon-like creature) which was out in 1991. So you could place it sometime after KK, ROTWL, and ATOH, but maybe before WOM? Wild guess just basd on that foreshadowing that probably didn't enter into the planning, but still there you go.

If you're playing as the Berserker/Explorer then Dungeons of Delthrak may be your first set of adventures... (same with ROTDM if you're the Knight, etc.).


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