*OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon Hill

[HispaZargon]

Regarding "First Quest" options... Yeah, even if you follow it to the letter.. at best "Mentor" can save three heroes from dying permanently (but they might only get 1 BP back since these are 1d6 healing potions, not instant 4's like the EU edition... keep in mind the NA deck includes only THREE potions of healing, while if you recall the EU deck had two) since he can do so after the fact rather than requiring to have the potion... the four heroes still have high percent chance of failing this quest, again and again. Wouldn't mind seeing HispaZargon or anybody else with their own "difficulty calculator" run through it, but I imagine that will back up my suspicion here even though I haven't playtested it myself.

Hi, here are the results I obtain using current version of my HZ-DCM v.1.0 Quest Difficulty Calculation Model, playing all the quests following American rules (higher difficulty per category marked in bold):

TOTAL QUEST DIFFICULTY:
- The Maze: 985 points
- The Trial: 4607 points
- The Beginnings: 3719 points
- Rogar's Hall: 9480 points

TOTAL MONSTERS DIFFICULTY:
- The Maze: 985 points
- The Trial: 4607 points
- The Beginnings: 3009 points
- Rogar's Hall: 9153 points

TOTAL TRAPS DIFFICULTY:
- The Maze: 0 points
- The Trial: 0 points
- The Beginnings: 710 points
- Rogar's Hall: 327 points

MAXIMUM INSTANT MONSTERS DIFFICULTY PLAYING IN THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MODE:
- The Maze: 164 points (1 Orc)
- The Trial: 1139 points (1 Gargoyle + 1 Chaos Warrior + 2 Orcs)
- The Beginnings: 473 points (1 Chaos Warrior + 1 Goblin)
- Rogar's Hall: 1136 points (3 Chaos Warriors)

These are the model results I obtain, but as I always say, the model is already under development, so by now it is only a prototype with limitations (the model does not account yet the heroes' growth in equipment nor rewards they receive like potions, artifacts, etc. nor wandering monsters type except explicitly located in the quest map).

Nevertheless, I clearly see that Rogar's Hall is a too difficult quest for beginners, even if the heroes takes the 3 Healing Potions at the begining since they are the ones from the Treasure deck, which could also be potentially found by the heroes in the other less difficult quests. According to my model, Rogar's Hall quest has similar difficulty level as the less difficult quest from Against the Ogre Horde or Wizards of Morcar/Zargon questpacks which I think is totally crazy.

The Beginnings quest already provides up to 18 BPs by means of several healing potions extra to those 3 included in the Treasure deck so this quest is really easy, I think. Probably a very useful quest if playing with kids of course.

In my humble opinion, I think The Trial is a good quest for beginners from difficulty standpoint. The only problem I see with such quest is it does not teach the players about traps rules and this quest shows too many different monsters and furniture models, which I think could reduce the aesthetical hype once playing the next quests. But, as said, from difficulty point of view I have seen playing The Trial by teenagers with just two heroes since the beggining (Barbarian and Elf) and they both completed the quest fully alive.

[Kurgan]

Re-reading Rogar's Hall it sounds like it was intended for a single run through. You get 150 gold coins reward to be divided among the SURVIVORS IF you successfully complete the quest (fat chance!). Dying doesn't matter because you get resurrected after the quest as if it never happened. So once you fail (which you probably will) the intention would be to then move on to the Trial, possibly with 150 extra gold to spend on something (a helmet or shield for instance, or a Staff for the Wizard and a couple of extra daggers).

If one player is controlling all four heroes of course, or they agree to share gold, the fact that the reward is only divided among the "Survivors" matters little.

The random artifact you find has to be returned at the end, but the quest doesn't clarify if other gold treasure and potions found (by searching for treasure) are illusory or not, so presumably you can keep them at the end of the quest (250 extra gold could be yours!).

If the heroes don't survive, they don't get to keep any treasure anyway, so chances are they'll play this thing for several hours and then come out of that wringer with nothing to show for it but defeat. Zargon will then have to try to convince the hero player(s) that most quests are nothing like that one they just played, being much shorter and easier, and by the time they face quests like that again they'll have had the chance to save up to get many power weapons and found many useful artifacts. It's like a video game where the final boss taunts you early on and scares you, but by the end of the game you're finally ready to take him out.

[gaeryth]

I'm going to treat Rogar's Hall as a Kobayahi Maru type situation. Beating the simulation, or failing the simulation, both constitute "successfully completing the quest" and thus the players would get the 150 gold reward, possibly with extra gold from within the quest. I'm planning on running the quest as if Mentor is controlling the monsters (instead of how normal quests are run, with Zargon controlling the monsters) so I might be more lenient in certain situations.

[Spookyhappyfun]

One would be to flip back to the EU's body point rules (maybe this was what Baker was originally thinking when he wrote it?) so that each monster only has 1 (Fimirs, Gargoyle, Chaos Warriors and Mummies become more manageable!) and this drops the overall monster BP total to 37.

I'm doing this with my version. Once the Heroes get one successful hit in, the monsters disappear in a puff of smoke. It's all a magical training from Mentor so he's not fully recreating the monsters. The players still get attacked, but that's also an illusion. The Heroes may feel the pain mentally and "die", but it's all part of his magical illusion and they're fine at the end once it's over. They aren't brought back to life because they never really die.

They still might not make it all the way through, but they'll know that's an option upfront. The idea is to learn how to cope with possible loss and to try to survive. To be ready for what Zargon has in store for them and so they are more prepared for the real Quests ahead.

I'm also doing the 1 BP thing so the players don't really know what the stats are on the real monsters until the encounter them in the later Quests since, once the encounter and defeat the monsters, I give players access to that monster's card so they then know the stats since they have the experience.

[Kurgan]

Cool way to do it, so really like a magical simulation or dream more than a 100% real quest where at the end they just say "just kidding!"

[Kurgan]

They seem not to have cared too much about any official order at least in terms of the Companion App version 1.4, just throwing two (of the three) free quests into their own generic section called Pulse alongside GS, KK and ROTWL sections. The app isn't the end all, be all, but for what it's worth...

[KentKaliber]

Does anyone have any idea where FROZEN HORROR fits into the canonical order of the Quest Books?

I've always been confused on where this fits........

[manaknight14]

I'll be interested to hear Avalon Hill or Zargon answer where this falls in the sequence. It's fairly clear that the new Into the Northlands quest is meant to immediately precede the Frozen Horror quest pack, but not where FH fits among the other packs. It wouldn't be surprising at all for it to be last among the as-yet-announced expansions. However, I could see it falling between Return of the Witch Lord and Crypt of Perpetual Darkness. The heroes being away in the Northlands for FH (and the elven kingdom for MotM) provides a convenient opening for Zargon to invade and set up the scenario presented in CoPD. Plus CoPD ends with what sounds like a teaser hook to lead into brand new expansions... although seeing how we're still waiting to resolve the Skulmar hook from RotWL 30 years later, this might not mean anything.

[Kurgan]

I guess for the solo quests (including the Prelude), those are the FIRST QUESTS (for that character at least), potentially.

Back in the EU edition, they were explicit that you could choose whether to take on KK or ROTWL first after the game system. These many latter quests didn't exist. The EU exclusives haven't been remade yet, so they don't yet exist in this timeline (except by fan fiat and GM option, which means whatever you allow at your table IS CANON!). Into the Northlands is an optional first quest to come before Frozen Horror quest 1. It's a solo quest, but it wouldn't have to be for the Barbarian (would help the most to have him be the one, or at least give the loot acquired on it to him before he begins 1992's quest 1!).

But many different situations. The solo quests in the Dave Morris novels came out at different times (1993's Tyrant's Tomb was the last official HQ quest publicly released until the remake I believe...).

I imagine Into the Northlands will appear in the "Pulse" section of the app like the other two. Hopefully they'll add Rogar's Hall soon, regardless of its problems, for ease of use, and maybe they can get Stephen Baker to narrate.. I'd brave it for that experience alone!

[KentKaliber]

Hey Everyone!
Avalon Hill has kindly replied and let us know where THE FROZEN HORROR fits into the canonical order! I have UPDATED that on the first page of this thread!