*OFFICIAL* Order of CURRENT HeroQuest Books per Avalon Hill

[QorDaq]

To me, logically, despite the timing of the Master List from AH vs. the latest 00 Quest, I take it more or less as follows:

There are now 3 possible intro Quests players can choose from. The Trial is still the "Official" 1st Quest. Rogar's Hall and A New Beginning, could be considered as alternate intro Quests.

I support this based on the article write-up for A New Beginning, which states unequivocally that this Quest is designed to reduce the new player challenges in The Trial by calling A New Beginning an "Apprentice-Level" quest. Additionally AH suggests playing it as either a primer for, or a replacement of The Trial.

Unfortunately, as others have noted, AH's attempts at clarity may suffer in their presentation--particularly where Rogar's Hall is placed before The Trial in play order on AH's Master List.

But I feel we may simply be over-thinking the issue. In a nut shell, these 3 Quests *could* be seen as alternate difficulty levels for the Intro Quest:

Easier (A New Beginning),
Medium-hard (The Trial), and
Hard (Rogar's Hall)

Thus, giving us a choice of where to start. At least that's my take, and how I intend to use them.

My take does not, however clarify anything as to AH's intent, though with such a sandbox of a game and setting, it's good that players can decide for themselves how best to approach the game.

Regardless, thanks to the OP for passing the info along.

[cyrunicorn]

# Title Titre Designer/Source Location Lieu Notes
0 Rogar’s Hall (Training Quest) Le Hall de Rogar (Quête d'Entraînement) Stephen Baker 2020-10-21 - Avalon Hill - WebQuest Unknown location Lieu inconnu https://heroquest.avalonhill.com/en-us/ ... ogars_hall
0 New Beginnings Nouveaux Départs Doug Hopkins 2022-04-08 - Hasbro Pulse - WebQuest 0 Unknown location Lieu inconnu just before or replacing The Trial (juste avant ou en remplacement de L'Épreuve)
1 HeroQuest (The Gathering Storm) La Quête des Héros (L'Orage Menaçant) Stephen Baker HQ Game System 1989-2021 To the east of the Old World vers l'Est du Vieux Monde HeroQuest Base Set Quest Book
2 Forsaken Tunnels of Xor-Xel Les Tunnels abandonnés de Xor-Xel Doug Hopkins 2021-12-22 - Hasbro Pulse - WebQuest 1 World Edge Mountains / Karak Varn Montagnes du Bord du Monde / Karak Varn This NEW Quest Bridges the gap between the Base Set and Kellar's Keep
3 Kellar's Keep Le Donjon de Kellar (Karak Varn) Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1989-2021 World Edge Mountains / Karak Varn Montagnes du Bord du Monde / Karak Varn
4 Prophecy of Telor La Prophétie de Telor Stephen Baker 2021 - HeroQuest: Mythic ($2.0m Unlock) Melar’s Maze Le Labyrinthe de Melar
5 Spirit Queen’s Torment Le Tourment de la Reine des Esprits Teos Abadia 2021 - HeroQuest: Mythic ($3.0m Unlock) Ruins of Wyvern Keep Ruines du Donjon de la Wyverne
6 Return of the Witch Lord Le Retour du Seigneur Sorcier Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1989-2021 Unknown location / Plains of Death / Kalos Lieu inconnu / Plaines de la Mort / Kalos
7 The Crypt of Perpetual Darkness La Crypte des Ténèbres Perpétuelles Joe Manganiello 2021 - HeroQuest: Mythic ($4.0m Unlock) Southern Region / Rat and Candle Tavern / Haunted Swamp / Crypt of the Death Knight Kedrick Gilbane Région du Sud / Taverne du Rat et de la Bougie / Marais hanté / Crypte du Chevalier de la Mort Kedrick Gilbane
8 The Halls of Durrag-Dol Les Halls de Durrag-Dol (Les Salles de Durrag-Dol) White Dwarf #134 - 1991 (VF Maike05 2021) World Edge Mountains Montagnes du Bord du Monde
9 Revenge of the Weather-Man La Revanche du Mage Élémentaire Comic Marvel Winter Special 1991 Unknown location Lieu inconnu
10 The Inn of Chaos L'Auberge du Chaos Greg Fewer Adventures Unlimited Magazine #5 - 1996 Unknown location Lieu inconnu
11 The Eyes of Chaos Les Yeux du Chaos Carl Sargent White Dwarf #145 - 1991 The Tombs of the Phalanx Les Tombeaux de la Phalange
12 Against the Ogre Horde Contre la Horde d'Ogres Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1993 Unknown location Lieu inconnu
13 Dargvellig Voy – The Realm of the Witch Queen Dargvellig Voy – Le Royaume de la Reine Sorcière Roman Von Haug 2002 or before! Unknown location Lieu inconnu Unofficial (Fan made) Optional Quest 0 for The Wizards of Morcar
14 The Wizards of Zargon (Morcar in UK releases) Les Sorciers de Morcar/Zargon Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1993 Shuddering Forest (Unknown were it is) Forêts de l’Épouvante
15 The Dark Company La Compagnie de l'Ombre Stephen Baker HQ Advanced Quest 1992 Unknown location Lieu inconnu
16 The Tears of Times Passed Les Larmes du temps passé (Le temps des larmes est révolu) Jacob Busby 2003 Keldor Forest Forêt de Keldor Unofficial (Fan made) This NEW Quest Bridges the gap between the European & North American versions of HeroQuest
17 The Frozen Horror L'Horreur Gelée Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1992 Northern Land / Ice Mountain Terres du Nord / Montagne de Glace
18 The Mage in the Mirror Le Mage du Miroir Stephen Baker HQ Quest Pack 1992 Elven Kingdoms / Gliness Fen Royaumes Elfiques / Gliness Fen
19 ?

[Darkfox190]

Personally, I think I'll be running it as... New Beginnings is for new players, or players who prefer a lighter experience. The "Easy" difficulty of a video game. The Trial is for experienced players starting a new run, or players who enjoy more difficulty. The "Hard" difficulty. Rogar's Hall is a challenge mode, like old school video games where the expectation wasn't to beat it, but to compare your score or how far you got to your friends. Those unlockable ramped up difficulties you see in games that are meant purely as a test of skill, rather than the expected way to experience the game.

What we need now is a proper "Medium" difficulty intro quest.

When I start playing the game with my friends, soon I hope, they'll all be new to the game. I'll be running New Beginnings for them, for sure! Rogar's Hall will have to wait, as I think it may be too punishing for new players to really appreciate. What I'm unsure of at the moment is doing The Trial after New Beginnings, or just replacing it with New Beginnings entirely.

[Nlinindoll]

On Twitter, Zargon and Avalon Hill are saying that New Beginnings is meant to be played before Rogar’s Hall.

https://twitter.com/bowforhire/status/1 ... 5dHB81yCzQ

https://twitter.com/generationme_/statu ... 5dHB81yCzQ

[KentKaliber]

On Twitter, Zargon and Avalon Hill are saying that New Beginnings is meant to be played before Rogar’s Hall.

https://twitter.com/bowforhire/status/1 ... 5dHB81yCzQ

https://twitter.com/generationme_/statu ... 5dHB81yCzQ

That's the EXACT clarification we needed! NEW BEGINNINGS is the Official "FIRST QUEST" and I have updated the ORDER at the start of this Thread.

[Kurgan]

Rogar's Hall is way too hard to be the first quest and really feels like a one-off promo quest, for very tolerant players (respect to Stephen Baker for his other, superior contributions).

Here I want to also speak up for the long-forgotten 1989, first edition of HeroQuest which began with "The Maze" (as also reproduced on Phoenix's Page (converted to the NA format from the original UK edition).

Additionally a brand new Barbarian or Elf may have the first quest as the Solo Quest 1-3 of Frozen Horror/Mage of the Mirror.

Official or not, it's nice to have options, even if many people will do whatever they want anyway.

Still, this is the kind of thing where if they do give guidance they should be prepared for people to take it, so it should be good advice (see the errata threads and suggestions for improving Frozen Horror, etc).

[KentKaliber]

Everyone keeps talking about Rogar's Hall being "TOO HARD" but keep in mind, in this quest, MENTOR gets to accompany the Team and SAVE THEM using Healing Potions ---- so this Quest certainly may not be as hard as it looks.

I plan to run my very FIRST Rogar''s Hall with my current Team soon --- and I'm very excited to see what the game plan experience will be.

WILL REPORT BACK AFTER WE PLAY IT!

[CavemanLogic]

Everyone keeps talking about Rogar's Hall being "TOO HARD" but keep in mind, in this quest, MENTOR gets to accompany the Team and SAVE THEM using Healing Potions ---- so this Quest certainly may not be as hard as it looks.

Too true. It is also stated that "you may move Mentor to stand in any space. Treat him as a regular hero. Other heroes may move through Mentor. Mentor does not take part in combat."

This means that Mentor can't attack or be attacked. And like any other Hero, Monsters can't move through Mentor's space. So you basically have an invincible, moveable wall along for the ride on this Quest... Who also doles out Healing Potions! So, maybe it *is* a bit easier than I was thinking it was going to be...

Please, let us know how it goes!

[Nlinindoll]

I played Rogar’s Hall as the first quest with my party of heroes back in November. Three were entirely new to HeroQuest and one was experienced. All heroes were fresh, starting weapons, no extra equipment. Even with the healing potions from Mentor (I think the quest limits it to four potions), the heroes burned through those and still died (full party kill) about half way through the quest.

[Kurgan]

Regarding "First Quest" options...


Yeah, even if you follow it to the letter.. at best "Mentor" can save three heroes from dying permanently (but they might only get 1 BP back since these are 1d6 healing potions, not instant 4's like the EU edition... keep in mind the NA deck includes only THREE potions of healing, while if you recall the EU deck had two) since he can do so after the fact rather than requiring to have the potion... the four heroes still have high percent chance of failing this quest, again and again. Wouldn't mind seeing HispaZargon or anybody else with their own "difficulty calculator" run through it, but I imagine that will back up my suspicion here even though I haven't playtested it myself.

To their credit, they did make a small correction via the public playtest for Rogar's Hall, but the only fix was to note the proper placement of secret door G that was missing from the very first posting.

Using healing spells, that's two more saves, at best, but remember the spells only restore up to 4 (can't go over maximum if they're healing a living hero). Of course you'll need the Dwarf to disarm traps, and if he dies you're left trying just to JUMP them (and since you lack the Rabbit Boots or any special potions, there is a 50% chance of failure on those pits which then become permanent hazards in the game if you ever do need to backtrack).

It is designed to be this way! Of course the base rules state then in the case of a total party kill (or any failure to complete a quest) a replay of the quest should require that the quest be re-arranged next time to prevent memorization.

Then again if you just have the heroes play the quest once (which will either be short if they lose, or very long if they win... nearly double the time of a standard game system quest)... whether they win or lose, and then move on, that seems the least frustrating way to use it. I don't personally recommend it for most gaming groups played without changes.

For reference, Rogar's Hall has 57 Monster BP (closer to the difficulty of the EU "Dark Company" from "Advanced Quest" or in the range of EQP difficulty), plus multiple traps. The Wandering Monster is a goblin, but they're special goblins that have a chance to do higher damage. PLUS the bad guy gets a random "Dread" spell (which could be pretty nasty... imaging if it were firestorm, cloud of "dread" or summon undead).

The Trial, by contrast, has 35 Monster BP overall (and Orc as wandering monster), with no traps (hazard cards from searches are still possible of course). And as we all know, the NA edition of the Trial has been a notorious TPK quest, especially for young first-time players.

If Rogar's Hall is just a one time demonstration of how hard the game can be... great. If you expect the heroes to win it (and play it OVER AND OVER until they do), I think they should be given more help than what they're given by default. It feels more experimental than a real quest to me, as is, especially for young first time players who may be overwhelmed by the extreme difficulty and not understand why they're supposed to lose after all that effort.

If you want a very easy first quest, play "the Maze" (with only SIX monster body points, not counting Wandering Monsters) although it doesn't teach you about teamwork, it's more competitive and may be fun for younger heroes. Training quests are fine (the EU first edition has those "one room goblin deathmatch" scenarios in its instruction booklet that do that), and the idea of role playing Mentor getting the heroes ready for their journey is a cool idea, but the fact is that for many of us we're either playing a rare game that was hard to get together with adults... or we're playing with small children who are learning to be better players. Neither of those demographics I think take well to the basic layout of Rogar's Hall, again, respect to Stephen Baker but this one just doesn't work well, in my humble opinion. If you're so good that you beat it easily, then you are a super player (or cheated).

One way you could make Rogar's Hall easier (but much longer, potentially) is to assume (as Stephen Baker did when making it, since he included the Mentor figure, which otherwise would be the generic stand-in of the Chaos Warlock/Dread Sorcerer gray figure), is to have it played with more than four heroes.... throw in the Bard, heck, have the Druid and Warlock play too! Then it would at least have the benefit of more firepower for all those extra monsters. Do you have the Knight? Let him/her play! Granted, if those are being controlled each one by a human player, that's a pretty crowded game, but you need all the help you can get if you change nothing else! (and now there will be less healing to go around, but at least the new heroes have their own ways of healing or saving from death too).

Fixing Rogar's Hall could take many forms. One would be to flip back to the EU's body point rules (maybe this was what Baker was originally thinking when he wrote it?) so that each monster only has 1 (Fimirs, Gargoyle, Chaos Warriors and Mummies become more manageable!) and this drops the overall monster BP total to 37.

Another would be to say that instead of using the actual cards, just say each hero can be restored ONCE to Full BP after dying automatically, via Mentor's training powers or whatever, and then leave the rest to the actual spells (you could also leave the Healing Potions in the Treasure Deck to be found and possibly used as even more healing).

Or you could delete about half the monsters... which would also halve the time it would take to "win" the quest.

For another contrast, "The Trial" in the EU 2nd edition (1990) had 26 Monster BP (not counting Wandering Monsters) but stipulated that ONLY the only cards used that quest were the Monster Cards. So yes, the monsters all had only one body point (and the monster distributions were different than the NA edition) but no treasure deck means no wandering monsters, but also no gold or potions, and no spells means the wizard is extra vulnerable. But then in that version the shortsword also could attack diagonally by default, so there's your door blocking strategy right there, something not possible in the NA edition until you get the staff and/or longsword.

The Japanese game system had a remarkably easy first quest (under the first stage "beginner" rules), where the only magic was "first aid" that the Magician (Wizard) could use as many times as desired (but only healing 1 BP per turn to himself or another hero) and only 8 monster BP (Wandering Monsters in this edition can't be fought anyway, they make an unblockable attack once and then vanish, with one of five possible monsters depending upon the card if I recall correctly).

So Japanese first quest is probably the easiest, EU 1st edition The Maze is also a very easy choice (Orcs still have only one BP under the NA rules if using Phoenix's adaptation). Next The EU Trial is quite a bit harder. New Beginning is easier in some ways than the NA Trial (less monster BP, more rewards) but harder in others (harder boss fight, traps present). Then the NA Trial, and lastly Rogar's Hall ranks up there with some of the more difficult official quests as written... because it wasn't designed to be won. And of course Solo Quests for the Elf and Barbarian Packs are very broken, ranking up there in difficulty not so much for the overall monster BP (although those are high) but the sheer number of things that can go wrong (traps, unwinnable fights with Yeti, scarcity of healing, etc). So EQP 1 has 17 monster BP but the wandering monster is a mummy. BQP 1 has 35 monster BP (and wandering monster is once again 2 BP). Both of these require some tweaks to prevent multiple attempts after dying since intended for a brand new player.

The Dave Morris novels include some solo quests ("A Growl of Thunder" in Tyrant's Tomb and "Running the Gauntlet" in Screaming Spectre), that aren't necessarily meant as "first quests" but certainly could be, and those are much easier in comparison because you actually can find a powerful companion to help you (or if you get lucky, a shortcut will let you beat it before you even need them!).

Growl of Thunder (EU rules = 25 monster BP; NA rules per phoenix = 39 monster BP) Barbarian solo can get a Wizard NPC to help (4 BP, 1 attack die, Water & Earth spells, so he could heal up to 8 BP!).

Running the Gauntlet (EU rules = 12 - 24 monster BP depending upon his choices; NA rules per phoenix = 21 - 37 monster BP; depending upon his choices!) Wizard solo can get a standard Barbarian NPC to help (8 BP, 3 attack dice, but charges 50 gold every time he loses 1 BP). It's possible to win this quest under the NA rules only fighting 6 BP worth of monsters AND getting all his used spells back!). In the EU original, you can do the same only facing 4 BP of monsters.

So these two are a little different I will admit. The first "group quest" for the Remake should either be The Trial, the Maze or New Beginnings, in my humble opinion. Skipping the Trial misses a rite of passage though for the classic game! The Maze will be missed by nostalgic EU players from '89.

In the end, most people will just play "The Trial" since it's the first quest, and they aren't going online to the fan community looking for alternate quests from the past or even the alternates proposed by Avalon Hill writers before they play.

Yes, adding these to the Companion App could help people learn about their options.