Ye Olde Inn

Kurgan wrote:Nice collection.... is that Dragon Riders of the Styx I see above? I had an articulated Knight action figure associated with that line but his legs broke off, now the guy is worth a fortune it seems.

For me Dragon's Lair was a game I saw in one arcade one time (didn't play it because the place was closed, not because it was so expensive), but wow. We had a kid's picture book that was derived directly from the game. It wasn't until many years later that I tried one of the pc conversions and most recently the Blu-Ray edition (which I am gifting to a friend, cool as it is, I just don't have the same nostalgia for it that he does, still a milestone of gaming).

Back to HeroQuest...

Yes I collect vintage toys from my youth (Star Wars, Gi Joe, Transformers, Gobots, Willow, Ghostbusters, Robotech, ZOIDS, Thundercats, Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, Clash of the Titans, and many more lines), board games (every one you have ever heard of and many more you haven't), video games (hundreds of NES and Atari games), etc. I have a complete set of Dragon Riders of the Styx both the plastic army men style miniatures and mats and the 3 3/4th articulated line. Collecting vintage. It's what I do. That is why I have a complete set of HeroQuest board games and all the associated merch.

Dragon's Lair was a stunner when it came out in 1983 we could only stare and watch helplessly enthralled as the bigger kids played, as any quarters put in were devoured in seconds as it was hard to progress even past the first couple of screens when you can barely reach the controller and buttons on a reaction based game. You have to realize how different it looked compared to contemporaries such as Asteroids or Pac Man. A whole new level of awesome that blew our minds. There is a reason why it is one of a very few arcade games to make the Smithsonian Collection, it truly was a ground breaking phenomenon for it's time. So much so that I collected EVERYTHING that has ever come out for it (one of my favorite brand properties along with HeroQuest) coloring books, video games, kids books, cartoons, teleplay cassette book, puffy and regular stickers, even party plates and napkins, and proudly packed my lunch in a metal Dragon's Lair lunchbox in elementary school. I had to have two so I could show each side in my vintage metal lunchbox collection on a shelf. I even have a book on collecting Dragon's Lair to make sure I got it all. I knew posting that picture was risky and could derail the topic, so we will leave it at one reply and as you said, back to HeroQuest.

Reading this quest book immediately made me comment by page 3, Gnomes and Death Knights are definitely Dungeons & Dragons bleed over into HeroQuest, but I would expect no less from Joe Manganiello, who got his own personal D&D character canonized and made into a figurine that anyone can now buy. Arkhan the Cruel
https://screenrant.com/joe-manganiello- ... s-avernus/
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Arkhan

Gnomes did exist in the earliest versions of the Warhammer World (and thus the vintage HQ game world), and even a few ancient GW gnome minis were made (that look like dwarfs, I've yet to find decent gnome mini's that doesn't look like dwarfs, hobbits, wrong scale humans, etc. arrgh.) but were long gone by 4th edition, so any HQ tie in is a bit of a stretch. Death Knight is so well known in D&D because of Lord Soth of the Forgotten Realms that it has ceased to be a generic undead term or title, but is understood as a specific type of undead by the fantasy community at large.

I'm no expert on Warhammer, but wasn't the 3rd edition of Fantasy Battle out as of 1987? Just in time for the premiere edition of HeroQuest 2 years later. Fourth Edition would have been contemporary with Wizards of Morcar and EQP/BQP (think that's right). I've skimmed through scans of 3rd edition and I see a lot of HeroQuesty type stuff in there and other things that people talk about that you don't see in the NA edition.

Edit: Maybe I'm wrong. Online references to WH 3rd edition say it came out '87, but the core rulebook I was looking at that talked about gnomes and dragons is actually dated 1991. I wasn't part of that game scene with book releases and so forth, so anyone know the real story? Then after that back to HeroQuest once again...

Edit: Threw up the wikipedia timeline to remind me. GS was released in the US 1990, KK/ROTWL 1991 (same year as the Japanese edition of the game system).

Kurgan wrote:I'm no expert on Warhammer, but wasn't the 3rd edition of Fantasy Battle out as of 1987? Just in time for the premiere edition of HeroQuest 2 years later. Fourth Edition would have been contemporary with Wizards of Morcar and EQP/BQP (think that's right). I've skimmed through scans of 3rd edition and I see a lot of HeroQuesty type stuff in there and other things that people talk about that you don't see in the NA edition.

Edit: Maybe I'm wrong. Online references to WH 3rd edition say it came out '87, but the core rulebook I was looking at that talked about gnomes and dragons is actually dated 1991. I wasn't part of that game scene with book releases and so forth, so anyone know the real story? Then after that back to HeroQuest once again...

3rd edition Warhammer was going strong when HeroQuest was in development (which is why we have FIMIR)) but the change to 4th edition consolodated the Warhammer rules and really set the foundations for the OLD WORLD setting. Much of the stranger stuff, questionable stuff, and D&Desque stuff was removed for a streamlined 4th edition, hence FIMIRS didn't make it. The HeroQuest production run spans both editions as 3rd Edition came out in 1987 and was replaced when 4th Edition came out in Oct. 1992

Okay, so third edition would be the basis after all.

Hi, what do you think about dragon official stats? In my opinion it should have been stronger compared with other HQ criatures and characters...

SPOILERS!!! My thoughts... (the gnome only features in the introduction that I recall...)

So there's a kind of cliffhanger ending? I guess so did Return of the Witch Lord (which was never officially resolved). I guess because the quest never ends... you're just intended to make your own quests to answer what happens next.

Now THIS is the "hard questpack" on the level of the Dark Company in terms of monsters (BP totals in the 50's, for the last quest for example). Good thing you have access to the Alchemist shop between quests once again, eh?

The Dragon "only" having 5 BP may seem slim, but he has super strong attack and defense... and just look at the spells he has! Cloud of Chaos (er, Dread) is a devastating spell, especially considering he could follow it up with the "Firestorm" equivalent. Does the anti-venom cure acid? I will have to do some more reading... just starting to look at this one.

As far as bosses go, yes, you may be well equipped by this point, but he is stronger in some ways than the Frozen Horror boss (albeit that pack overall is extreme difficulty, with BP's going over a hundred, and its last two quests were a two parter (with no recharging in between), so that is even extreme in terms of being a sheer meatgrinder of an adventure).

But while the difficulty of Prophecy of Telor and Spirit Queen's Torment seemed just about right (monster Body Points never go over the 30s), this one is more on the level of the KK/ROTWL or Dark Company in terms of difficulty and straight up threat. Maybe this one SHOULD be played last? You can also make off with a massive reward (and apocalyptic visions that haunt you long after).

Let me reiterate... Cloud of Chaos [Dread] is a BEAST of a spell. It's like casting sleep on ALL the Heroes. Remember how effective sleep can be against a single target? Plus FIRESTORM let's you blast the entire room and while it will hit the monsters (but not the spellcaster) too, it is guaranteed to do 1 damage to all Heroes, and could do up to 3 each! Those two spells in combination can be absolutely catastrophic. Yes, maybe one person could have the Fire Ring and resist the fire attack, maybe another has high minds points and the Talisman and resist the Cloud, but dang, that's powerful and multiple bad guys have those things in this quest pack.

The "dread" sorcerers who don't have firestorm or cloud of dread tend to have "command" another potentially lethal spell, depending upon the hero they corrupt is armed with (the rules don't clarify it lets you use combat magic it just says you can move and attack other heroes).

At first I thought maybe the Dragon could ONLY be harmed by the Dragon spear, but it's just extra effective against him (4 combat dice instead of only 3). Now the Dragon still defends with black shields, but still!

While Baker went for the rich storytelling and puzzles/gimmicks in Prophecy of Telor, here Mangianello goes for sheer brutality in fighting. Lots of dread spell users or special strong monsters in many quests, and strong wandering monsters too though not an excessive number of traps. A clever use of cheese though, and a Minotaur (sort of) ! It looks like a few quests in Joe ditched the storytelling in favor of pain and punishment.

For comparison, the Trial, one of the hardest GS quests (other than the last two) had monster BP in the high 30s (even with no traps). BQP (the hardest official quest pack) tends to triple that number (but they expect you will have mercenaries with you by that point).

The new traps don't seem too crazy. There are dread skull type enemies that can shoot at you for 2 BP but die in 1 hit (they can't defend). The acid pools sound exactly like regular pits (unless you assume they do damage for every turn you sit on one, but the text only says you take damage from moving onto them). The grasping vine traps are interesting and sound like something fans came up with... you can expend an action cutting through the vines (or another can cut through them to free you, otherwise they are just like a spear trap, that goes away once they are destroyed.

There's some stuff about magical darkness but I didn't study it too carefully. I guess that's a cool idea and having an artifact that can counteract it is cool too.

This like some of the other new quest packs makes use of the Wooden/Iron in/out doors packed with KK/ROTWL.

Back to Joe's pack (I could be off by 1 or 2 BP as I was skimming through and tired):

Quest 1: 33 monster BP (a bit on the high side for a first quest, though various rewards are possible)
Quest 2: 40 monster BP
Quest 3: 31 monster BP
Quest 4: nearly 40 monster BP
Quest 5: nearly 40 monster BP
Quest 6: 40+ monster BP
Quest 7: nearly 50 monster BP
Quest 8: 40+ monster BP
Quest 9 & 10: 50+ Monster BP

Joe's quest looks to have a very casual style, kind of an informal "You probably know this is a game you're playing, right" kind of atmosphere as opposed to the more flowery style of storyteller Baker and even more laid back and informal than Abadia's quest book, in my opinion. "Amidst the chaos..." indeed! There is a strong "fan made" vibe to this pack. Probably best to play this with fully equipped Heroes.


/End SPOILERS>..!

WARNING, SPOILERS AHEAD:

I don't know if it has been already marked by somebody in the Inn, but strictly talking, The Crypt of Perpetual Darkness questpack has included 3 new artefacts, not only 2... There have been included the Crown of Shadows, The Dragon Spear.... and the Lightning Bolt Spell Scroll. This scroll was never included before in any classic expansion, moreover, its spell corresponds to a Dread/Chaos spell, instead of an Elemental spell.

Great catch HZ! This one slipped me by me completely... is there no Artifact card for it, only a reference on the back inside page of the COPD (that abbreviation... a disorder of the lungs, yowtch) quest book?

Another interesting detail... wow... it lacks the end line "Scroll crumbles to dust after it is used" present with the other Spell Scrolls.

Add it with the Spear in terms of missing cards.

This made me look at each one and write them down...

Artifact References (on the inside back page of each new quest book):

Crypt of Perpetual Darkness:

Crown of Shadows (Artifact)
Dragon Spear (Artifact)
Ring of Return (Artifact - Game System)
Magical Throwing Dagger (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Holy Water (Equipment - Game System)
Spell Scroll Lightning Bolt (Game System Dread Spell... no card for Artifact version)
Spell Scroll Tempest (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)
Battle Axe (Equipment - Game System)
Crossbow (Equipment - Game System)
Potion of Speed (Equpiment - Game System)


Spirit Queen's Torment:

Fortune's Longsword (Artifact)
Phantom Blade (Artifact)
Anti-Poison Quill (Artifact - Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Ring (Artifact - Game System)
Dust of Disappearance (Artifact - Return of the Witch Lord)
Rabbit Boots (Artifact - Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Courage (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Fire of Wrath (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Tempest (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)
Orc's Bane (Artifact - Game System)

Prophecy of Telor:

Rod of Telekinesis (Artifact)
Ring of Fortitude (Artifact)
Spell Scroll Heal Body (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Tempest (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)
Spell Scroll Ball of Flame (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Courage (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Fire of Wrath (Artifact - Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord)
Spell Scroll Sleep (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)
Spell Scroll Rock Skin (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)
Spell Scroll Genie (Artifact - Kellar's Keep)

Hi, the alchemist bench of quest #11 of Prophecy of Telor also includes three Lightning Bolt spell scrolls.