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Overview of the Old World

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday April 24th, 2024 5:32am

I have that Warhammer: The Old World map. My question is how drastically would it have changed from before to after the Chaos Incursion that happens between those years?
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday April 24th, 2024 11:14am

I should follow up my earlier comments that now Avalon Hill has, through Encarmine's interviews, basically de-canonized the Dave Morris novels. The Warhammer stuff is no longer canon within the current HeroQuest franchise. They haven't strictly stated it anywhere, but the assumption now among fans is that until they have remade and re-released some piece of classic era, legacy HeroQuest content, it is assumed to be "non-canon." Of course the whole idea of what is "canon" or not within the HQ world may seem a bit silly, because every quest is different. But so far they haven't released any scenarios that are labeled "what if" meaning they may or may not have taken place within a single timeline. However, if some of the speculation about Jungles of Delthrak is true, that might change in theory... but we are talking the actions of a certain group of heroes on the world stage as opposed to some other history or geography of the world they find themselves in.

As if any of that needed to be said, if you were sticking strictly to what they have released... the whole point now is that the gaps in the background of HQ is still wide open for you to insert, at your table, whatever you want into it. That includes putting all the Warhammer (whether that era or some other) and/or Dave Morris stuff back in if you wish! In fact, simply re-imagining the world is entirely within the spirit of HeroQuest past and present.

That said, I think the new "Old World" stuff coming back is an interesting development for those who are looking for inspiration. Have at it, I say! As for whether I'm going to do that, I think I'm sticking to just digging around for classic HQ era Warhammer fantasy (as cheaply as I can get it) and see what I can find.

I do think it's interesting that even though AH/Hasbro is consciously avoiding Warhammer lore, at the same time some similar things end up happening or coming out. I guess because in the end, even GamesWorkShop doesn't own all these themes and ideas, anymore than TSR or WOTC did or anymore than Tolkien did, etc. if you go back far enough, much of it would be in the public domain of human legend, that many have put their own spin on over the centuries and decades. But if you plan to package it and sell it, check with an IP lawyer first, probably.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » Thursday April 25th, 2024 2:36am

Kurgan wrote:I should follow up my earlier comments that now Avalon Hill has, through Encarmine's interviews, basically de-canonized the Dave Morris novels. The Warhammer stuff is no longer canon within the current HeroQuest franchise. They haven't strictly stated it anywhere, but the assumption now among fans is that until they have remade and re-released some piece of classic era, legacy HeroQuest content, it is assumed to be "non-canon." Of course the whole idea of what is "canon" or not within the HQ world may seem a bit silly, because every quest is different. But so far they haven't released any scenarios that are labeled "what if" meaning they may or may not have taken place within a single timeline. However, if some of the speculation about Jungles of Delthrak is true, that might change in theory... but we are talking the actions of a certain group of heroes on the world stage as opposed to some other history or geography of the world they find themselves in.

As if any of that needed to be said, if you were sticking strictly to what they have released... the whole point now is that the gaps in the background of HQ is still wide open for you to insert, at your table, whatever you want into it. That includes putting all the Warhammer (whether that era or some other) and/or Dave Morris stuff back in if you wish! In fact, simply re-imagining the world is entirely within the spirit of HeroQuest past and present.

That said, I think the new "Old World" stuff coming back is an interesting development for those who are looking for inspiration. Have at it, I say! As for whether I'm going to do that, I think I'm sticking to just digging around for classic HQ era Warhammer fantasy (as cheaply as I can get it) and see what I can find.

I do think it's interesting that even though AH/Hasbro is consciously avoiding Warhammer lore, at the same time some similar things end up happening or coming out. I guess because in the end, even GamesWorkShop doesn't own all these themes and ideas, anymore than TSR or WOTC did or anymore than Tolkien did, etc. if you go back far enough, much of it would be in the public domain of human legend, that many have put their own spin on over the centuries and decades. But if you plan to package it and sell it, check with an IP lawyer first, probably.


ONLY the original publications of MB/GW HeroQuest are canon. The remake obviously isn't, they took the namesake and the game mechanics but stripped out the location story and timeline which is the very essence of "canon" in any fandom. Generic settings cannot be canonized. Now that they have developed their own original stories that becomes a separate narrative that still has adaptations of the original in it but in no way retcons or makes the original work "no longer canon or de-canonized." Their narrative becomes it's own canon, separate from the original namesake game.

The Old World is not any part of the new game for obvious reasons due to intellectual property of the original company Games Workshop, who are no longer involved, but it certainly was part of the original game. I think of them as two completely separate games linked only by gameplay and namesake at this point.

Consider this analogy: Bram Stoker's Dracula book and short story Dracula's Guest are the only original material of Dracula and thus the only true Dracula canon, but that character has been used in countless other media from fiction, movies, television, games, video games, theatre etc. each one of those would be their own separate universe and independent canon but in no way erases, replaces or invalidates the original source material as canon. Castlevania series of games for example has an entirely separate "Dracula canon" that is only tangentially connected to the actual Dracula novel.

This is precisely the reason why the new rereleased game material from Hasbro/Avalon Hill should be in it's own separate section of the forums as the lore is completely different from the original games at this point despite remaking most of the original products, it is it's own canon and has nothing to do with the Warhammer derived original game canon, and discussion of it doesn't belong it the same discussion as the original game (beyond comparison threads and posts) and certainly not in a thread titled "Overview of the Old World." This is a discussion about the original version of HeroQuest developed and published by Milton Bradley and Games Workshop that everyone knows was directly adapted from Warhammer.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » Thursday April 25th, 2024 9:10pm

Not much of anything has actually changed in the lore of HeroQuest between the 90's and today though, has it? Not mentioning something vs. changing something is what I mean here. Before you get fired up to argue I'm drawing some strict lines, I'm not trying to do that. I'm actually looking at it from various angles. You may not like my take on things, but I'm perfectly happy you have yours. If we were trying to setup some kind of fan produced compendium of Warhammer and HeroQuest blended together, that would always be a fan creation, not something official. It would not be something that could ever (or should ever) be imposed on anyone as a condition for being a HQ fan. Now onto the parts that are really important...

If we want to get really pedantic names changed between the EU, NA and Japanese (and other localized) editions of HeroQuest back in the day too (please tell me we're not going to start arguing that only the UK version is the "real" thing). Or does only the cartography matter? Seems the geographical setting is the least meaningful part of HeroQuest (we talk of "world building" all the time but we're more talking about events and characters than maps). Instead it's about the creatures, the technology, and themes (which any WH fan will tell you are decidedly different in this board game than the wargame IP it borrows from). If we look upon the officially published material, there were several groups of four heroes out there at more or less the same time doing similar things against different looking bad guys with different names doing more or less the same sorts of things. Almost like a legend transposed into different eras and cultures....

I think it's only fair if we're going to throw the modern "Old World" of Warhammer in here (wait, are we saying OTHER editions of Warhammer can be "canon" for HeroQuest and not just those from 30 years ago???), then we can freely discussing modern HeroQuest as well. I know some people are really passionate about Warhammer here, but I would remind them of the main focus of these forums and this site (plenty of sections with other games too, why isn't this thread in the "warhammer fantasy" section? because it's talking about HeroQuest primarily). It would be cool to have a separate section for the modern era of HeroQuest, but I would say good luck with keeping them separated at this point. These are separate games that have connections but need not be seen as the same thing (unless one wants to).

As I've said, my interest in 90's Warhammer is a curiosity, not a rule I would try to impose on anyone who is "world-building" for their HeroQuest. But if we we are okay admitting new GamesWorkShop stuff beyond HQ into HQ, why wouldn't we also admit new Hasbro stuff? Hasbro owned MB back in the day, just like it owns AH now, after all. Stephen Baker may not be in charge of everything HQ, but neither was he back in the day either. So I think there's plenty of room for many interpretations here, based on the needs or desires of the player beyond what any company can do (thankfully HQ is not the sort of game where much can be "enforced" on players vs. a competitive war game sold in its own branded stores like WH). I tried to nuance everything, thanks for reading, just so someone doesn't walk away from this thread thinking "this guy really hates Warhammer, he must not be a true HeroQuest fan."

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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » Friday April 26th, 2024 12:42am

The reason Warhammer: The Old World is relevant is because of timeline. It lands just a few years before HQ presumingly takes place, as opposed to WFB 3rd edition which was presumed to be about 200 years later. The Old World and 3rd edition are still in the same world setting, only minor changes. The new remake HQ place names and lore cannot say the same thing. The WHOLE point of this thread is fitting HQ into the Warhammer setting. If that is not your personal goal, I respect that, just don't try to hijack the thread towards yours. It's okay to appreciate something from the sideline. There are lots of threads on the Inn that I read even though I don't agree or fully agree with them nor will ever implement. I just don't bother responding in those threads.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » Saturday April 27th, 2024 3:10pm

No man, and I mean this respectfully... you can start a thread, but you can't stop members who disagree with you in any way from participating. I'm not hijacking or derailing, but you seem to be trying to control the conversation by changing the rules then not applying them consistently. I'm saying it's logically contradictory to say that we can use a modern GWS product to amend the background lore of vintage HeroQuest (pick your edition), but we shouldn't do the same with Avalon Hill's official HeroQuest.

Now IF you wanted to assert that ONLY GamesWorkShop approved materials should be used with HeroQuest, okay fine, but then you also run into the problem that GamesWorkShop approved remake HeroQuest. They specifically sat down with Hasbro, the once-again owner of HeroQuest (after they bought back their IP from Chaoseum and GameZone) and hammered out what terms they wanted changed moving forward. HeroQuest 2021 literally would not have happened if not for GamesWorkShop. I'm not going down the rabbit hole of Advanced HeroQuest (is it set in a different time period than classic HQ even though the game lays out rules for using the exact assets of one game within the other?) and any relation to Warhammer Quest.

It's all well and good to poke fun at my supposedly negative rejection of Warhammer Fantasy as the actual "canon" of HeroQuest (bad fan, doesn't like the same things I do!?), but it ignores the fact that I'm perfectly open to people doing whatever they want with the game. I even supported the idea of using stuff published around the time HQ came out (though mostly before) as a mine for inspiration. Anybody can talk about Warhammer and why you should get into Warhammer, what's best about Warhammer, what's the hierarchy of Warhammer canon, etc... but we're all relating it back to HeroQuest. If you want my suggestion, don't limit what others can do with the game, but I can perfectly understand you wishing to limit yourself since we're dealing with mountains of material here and it could start to become hard for anyone to manage.

I look at old HeroQuest and new HeroQuest and I don't see a lot of actual changes. Yes, there are mentions of a few Orcs being good guys in a certain time period or isolated location. Yes, there is reinforcement of the idea that not all Ogres are out to kill the heroes (mention of Ogre mercenaries already existed in the original edition of ATOH). But what we generally see is simply substitution of names. Is the "Sea of Talons" located on a different planet from the "Sea of Claws"? I would just see it as an alternate name for the same thing, much like the "World's End Mountains" (World's Edge Mountains) or "Darkfire Pass" (Blackfire Pass), "Kabba Karn" (Karak Varn). You could say that calling the Emperor and his Empire "the King" and "the Realm" implies a smaller scale, but every Emperor is a King, and an Empire is also a Realm when you think about it.

Small little lore tweaks have occurred within remake HeroQuest as well. For example care was taken to refer to Zargon with generic pronouns (though the original HeroQuest called him a "man") while ATOH remake explicitly refers to Zargon as "he." Likewise the Orcs were sanitized a little bit in their monster description indicating the bad Orcs were the ones allied with evil wizards, while the description of the Orcs in "New Beginnings" (intended as an alternate first quest prior to the Trial) gives them a description word for word from the 1990 edition (though without the mention of them being enslavers of goblins). At least some Elven beliefs were presented in the Haslab release of Spirit Queen's Torment... a belief in the afterlife as well as invocation of "the gods." While it was always possible to imagine that these might not be some universal statement of Elf theology but simply the beliefs of certain individuals, nevertheless the reference to "the gods" was removed in the retail version of SQT. Rise of the Dread Moon introduced a "Temple of the Moon" and other lunar imagery (expounding on what was somewhat implied in the 1992 edition of Mage of the Mirror). Without getting on a whole side conversation about religion in HeroQuest, certainly the concept of an "evil god" was present in the Japanese edition of 1991 and spirits (of various kinds) have existed in HQ since the beginning.

The Wandering Monk introduced some type of "reverence for the elements" as some alternate application of Elemental magic by certain individuals (we have no idea the size or influence of whatever Order or monastery the Monk came from). The map is rather vague and for all we know, it might be "inaccurate" (like one could judge Dave Morris' maps, though his in-text geography is rendered nonsensical as even he admitted and I don't blame him for a piece of possible miscommunication from his publisher at the time).

Perhaps the biggest "change" in Lore might be the removal of the mention of "Chaos" and replacement with "Dread." But the Chaos Warriors were always called "Dread Warriors" even back in the earliest release.

So setting aside any old grudges or thoughts that I'm trying to derail your thread (not at all), I would say if one wishes, one can add the Warhammer background (however defined) to the Remake HeroQuest absolutely 100% if they wish.

After all, what Hasbro has LEGALLY agreed to do, does not stop fans from doing on their own, so long as they're not selling it with the HQ name. GamesWorkShop can't at this time release a new HeroQuest book either. But the previously released material all still exists if you can find it (or reference a scan in our digital internet age), thankfully.

I certainly have created my own "head canon" world for HeroQuest, that is not beholden to either anything written by GWS or Hasbro. However I certainly did consult the Illustrated guide to the Warhammer World as well as the 3rd Edition core rulebook when I was coming up with it. I do prefer a lot of the old terminology from HeroQuest '89-92 over the remake stuff, but I don't reject that either. If you had to pin me down, I'd say I'm using the classic heroquest as my foundation, adding the remake to it, and interpreting a few things through Warhammer eyes. I look at Battlemasters and Space Crusade as being connected here. But when it comes down to it I'm starting with HeroQuest and adding Warhammer (to a limited extent), not the other way around. But that's just me. Since I'm not reading all of the books I'm probably missing some cool things I might want to use, so I'm grateful when others point them out to me. That's not putting any burden on Warhammer fans, they don't exist to serve my game table, but if they're willing to share information with the internet, then I can draw from it if I wish, just like people can use my ideas to make their own mods (or decide they don't like it and so consider what NOT to do, lol). Collecting HQ can be expensive enough, I'd rather utilize WH fans as a resource than try to collect and sift all that data myself. Is that selfish or lazy or me? I guess, but we all have to set limits. I bet there's some fandom you might be casually a part of that you're not a leading expert in, and that's fine. And when I'm at your table, your "headcanon" rules the day when you're the GM, which I can fully respect.

Still I think considering the size and scope of the Warhammer materials, wouldn't anyone who is taking on the task of trying to make HeroQuest "compliant" with WHF be required to make creative decisions... artistic choices in how they reinterpret and blend the material? I didn't get the impression from the hardcore lore experts on here that it was always a 1:1 correspondence even if you limited yourself to a specific edition. I certainly feel that Warhammer is a lot less accessible to the average gamer just getting started, so holding them to a rigid standard on it I don't think is very fair or inviting. But the fact that there are fan wikis and lists and things out there does certainly help. You can't expect someone who doesn't own all those books to buy them up and rewrite them into one massive definitive compendium to stand for all time and only then do they get to play!

Taking a bunch of books written in the 80's and using them to come up with geographic locations to feature quests and pulling out creatures to serve as monsters sounds great or to inspire the introduction of new magic spells all sounds great. I'd never be against that. But mechanics wise, one would certainly have to pick and choose, or else you just end up transforming one game into the other. Now you're just using more Warhammer pieces on your HQ board, or putting your HQ figures on the WHF battlefield with new stats (nothing wrong with that either, but if the stated goal is to "use" the Warhammer lore more fully in HQ, it would seem you're setting boundaries within which you're still playing HeroQuest just with more Warhammer "flavor").

Does new HeroQuest "add to the lore"? Yes it does, but so far as I've seen (and I'm open to being corrected on that if you have specific examples), it treads carefully to stay within the main boundaries set by legacy HQ. Some experimentation was done with creating new content within the Haslab campaign with the Mythic tier certainly (Dragons were already present in the HQ world via the Dave Morris novels and I'm pretty sure that wasn't his innovation). At least one female Orc appeared in the official Marvel Winter Special of '91.

Most of what you find is in Rise of the Dread Moon that expands somewhat Mage of the Mirror. The new heroes really don't stray that far (draft notes indicate the Elven Kingdom of HeroQuest was intended to be portrayed as a matriarchy but this didn't make it into the release version, and the Rogue Heir is presented with options for both sexes) either. Guardian knights were mentioned previously but not explicitly defined (and who is to say a certain individual couldn't have taken a different path after his or her village was destroyed, or how Sir Ragnar did). We don't yet know much about Jungles of Delthrak (other than some association with Dwarves). The whole concept of the "Dread Moon" and its evil boosting abilities (which struck me as something out of "Avatar") seemed odd until I saw that there is Morrslieb in Warhammer lore. For a lot of this stuff because it is fantasy, I think it's much easier to blend things while imagining there is knowledge that has been obfuscated by the growth of legends, and the existence of rival interpretations of things via different religious or philosophical beliefs helps to explain why we can't always take sayings from characters like Mentor as 100% objective fact (if it contradicts your favorite Warhammer concept or idea for instance).

The Orc Bard (in Spirit Queen's Torment) was a sticking point for a lot of fans who disliked the idea of "good" Orcs. However in so far as the Bard is used at all (he's strictly optional) he could easily be viewed as a rare anomaly. The other Orc allies are tied into the fact in (remake) HeroQuest that some Orcs were once not evil, so whether that jibes with any version of Warhammer lore you can tell me. I've heard that Half-Orcs existed in the first edition as mercenaries, but were they always evil? There are some slight contradictions within SQT from the rest of remake HQ such as characters being surprised that the bad guys are using elemental magic alongside "dread" (chaos) magic, but this seems odd as elemental spells have been part of the "Chaos Spell" deck for thirty years (see Tempest, Ball of Flame, etc). I'm not saying its perfect, perhaps you could say that these characters are simply mistaken, far from being all knowing (AH muddied the waters a bit by putting out "official quest pack order" lists upon the insistence of fans, which I don't think always work the best).

I'm sure the Warhammer fan community is vast and all opinions can't be represented here by just a few individuals, so we'll do what we can with what we have.

I suppose you could here say no way no how and de-canonize Spirit Queen's Torment, but there's at least a lot of other material still to consider. But I'm not the Warhammer Lore expert. Perhaps there is something bigger I'm missing here. Ask me about HeroQuest, and I'll try to answer whether it can be reconciled with the particular lore you're using. That is, if you wish to have a dialog. But the bigger question is, can we, as fans, learn about Warhammer and use it in HeroQuest? Of course! But each table answers that question their own way, it can't be imposed upon them. So here you're going to get different visions, not just reinforcement of one person's particular interpretation.
Last edited by Kurgan on Saturday April 27th, 2024 8:26pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » Saturday April 27th, 2024 4:22pm

I'm not throwing "verbal punches." I was just stating that the point of this thread is designed around fitting HQ into Warhammer lore. Warhammer throughout the different editions still takes place in the same world. There have been slight changes between editions but the overall is the same world. This is why The Old World is still viable. The Old World is the closest version on the timeline to when HQ is being presumed. That gives more content (place name locations, characters, etc.) relevant to HQ.

As far as the Orcs in Warhammer, they are either evil or chaos. Half-Orcs are either neutral or evil depending on which parent raised them. Most however find other Half-Orcs to live amongst or join the Orcs.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » Saturday April 27th, 2024 5:45pm

So here's an attempt at some contributions of my own...

The Gargoyle from classic heroquest is based on the design of the Bloodthirster which in turn draws inspiration from the Balrog in Tolkien's Fellowship of the Ring, a "demon" (in that book as one of shadow and flame). However the HQ Gargoyle has entirely different abilities, more being like a living statue creature (created by magic of course), sometimes with magic spells of its own. The remake Gargoyles ditch the Bloodthirster/Balrog design, but the minis gets re-used as a "fire daemon" within Prophecy of Telor, paying tribute to the old roots, though it's the kind of foe that can be defeated by a team of heroes the likes of which appear in HQ rather than causing trouble for an angelic Maiar type being as seen in LOTR (and also as a representation of the "demon form" of the Druid later).

WHF RPG 1st edition ('95) seems to match up with WHFB 3rd edition core in terms of describing Half-Orcs/Half Caste. So if we were to imagine the "good guy" Orcs in HeroQuest (even the Bard) were 'half' orcs, we could imagine them fighting for the heroes' side, and even being able to use magic. Do the four heroes always have to be "Good" or could they be "neutral"? The heroes do spend a lot of time basically playing the role of mercenaries for the Emperor/King or running errands for Mentor (similar to the heroes in their eastern adventure). The idea of these Orcs as being outcast or marginal figures would fit in with the fact that they are so rare even in HeroQuest. As a trade there are minstrels but I didn't see a Half-Orc one, though maybe he's just not very good at it? Many of the careers/trades fit with HeroQuest as I see the HQ mercenaries fitting into the militaman or mercenary for example. Someone more familiar could probably find a good fit for each of the encountered characters from HQ.

I've never had a problem seeing the Abominations as the same thing as the Fimir, even if they are physically different (no tail, two eyes instead of one). Mysterious, quasi-demonic looking creatures associated with watery areas possessing great strength and sometimes even magic.

That the goblins were slaves of the Orcs is fine as even remake HeroQuest depicts the goblin in the artwork with broken shackles. It could be that these goblins have been freed and are not being forced to fight by their Orc and Abomination allies.

The "gods" and temples, oracles and spirits of the Known World could include the vague and brief references mentioned in the original Spirit Queen's Torment, and the Chaos god (not named) in the Japanese edition (he could be imagined as some kind of daemonic champion I suppose, similar to the Frozen Horror). I see that the RPG only names a few of the deities but imagines a pantheistic, polytheistic world with too many objects of worship to name and new cults starting all the time (hinting you can just make up your own for the game table).

Ghosts that appear alternately substantial and ethereal fits in with the Specters and Wraiths from Rise of the Dread Moon.

The elves in HeroQuest are not differentiated between High, Wood, Sea, or Dark, but you could imagine them falling into those categories. Perhaps the civil war in MOTM/ROTDM is between different factions of elf, maybe fought on different fronts, or representing some alliance of different groups on each side. Many have said the classic HQ Elf hero reminds them of a Wood Elf, but the new Elf takes a couple different aesthetic designs. He (or she) can use elemental magic or specific elf magic drawn from various types (referencing here the draft notes): illusion, mentalist, or nature.

What is Morcar/Grimdead/Zargon? (are we even to assume they're the same person?) He's not "Morkar" the ancient Chaos Warrior. He's not a minor chaos god either but a man, a human sorcerer ("Evil Wizard") who, like Mentor, has lived for centuries (perhaps millennia depending upon how one interprets the timeline). Magic exists in HQ that can extend life beyond normal means. I suppose the Witch Lord (his "general"?) is a Necromancer and not undead himself but he's also been killed and revived or put into a deathlike state before and recovered.

I suppose it might not be allowed in WHFB but ROTDM incorporates Alchemy and basically makes the Wizard double as an Alchemist (not needing an expensive, limited use re-agent kit in order to craft potions, only the re-agent itself and access to an Alchemist's Bench). Druids exist in both WH and HeroQuest with their nature magic. ATOH remake gave us halfling (rather than human as in the Mythic release) druids.

I haven't found anything on WH Warlocks yet ("Chaos Warlock" was used in the original HeroQuest but the term "Chaos Sorcerer" was favored in the expansions)... I guess these guys appear in WHFRPG 2nd edition? Male witches who worship demons and such, though the HQ Warlock is specifically a half-ling type character who has "bonded" with a dark creature (see "Demonform" though the plastic figure provided is a gargoyle it could be viewed as a stand in for the creature depicted in the card art, not everything in HQ is literal to the plastic figures).

I thought it was interesting that in the section on Alchemists the pursuit of transmutation of other substances into gold was considered "fruitless" but in HeroQuest it has been achieved (see "Potion of Alchemy" from vintage era Wizards of Morcar, granted, it's pretty rare, a single card out of all of those expansions... if we're assuming it transforms a piece of equipment into real gold, as opposed to just being a scam and trick only).

The "Monks" mentioned in Warhammer Fantasy don't sound a lot like the Wandering Monk, but maybe fits in somewhere else under some other name, being inspired by tropes of quasi-mystical martial arts monks.


An old theory on here (and elsewhere probably) is that Sigmar was reincarnated as Rogar, the mighty predecessor of the Barbarian in the HeroQuest game we play. I guess one could also imagine that somehow Grugni the Dwarf deity has been embodied by the modern day Dwarf. Or was it that these deified heroes were actually the "original" four that Mentor recruited to beat Zargon/Morcar the first time centuries ago? This doesn't have to be so, but it's a fun idea to play around with. I imagine it came about based on the "suggested names" given in the first HQ edition that included some of these Warhammer names (though who is to say you can't have someone named after a figure of the past, legendary or otherwise... just like in our world). The heroes actually get to delve into the past of Telor (the Wizard hero from centuries ago companion of Rogar) and even meet his spirit (minor spoilers there for PoT).

I'm not going to get into the theory that Prince Magnus could in fact be Magnus the Pious (let someone else figure that out). But so far I'm seeing many of the concepts found in HeroQuest don't seem impossible in the world of Warhammer laid out (granted, some of this comes AFTER HeroQuest, even if by just a few years... '95 vs. '93/'94).

There's a lot of lore dropped in "HeroQuest II: Legacy of Sorasil" that I don't claim to have expert knowledge in (see the threads attempting to draw that out for use in the physical game) and comments have been made that it feels more "D&D" like, but I don't see an issue with having Clerics in there, I mean I saw many pages talking about Clerics in the WHF book(s).
Last edited by Kurgan on Saturday April 27th, 2024 8:38pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » Saturday April 27th, 2024 6:53pm

Dwarfs are neutral, evil, or chaos.
High, Sea, Wood Elves are good. Dark Elves are evil or chaos.
Fimir are evil. (Not a Goblinoid race.)
Goblins are evil or chaos. Not all Goblins are Orc slaves. There are Goblin tribes.
Halflings are neutral.
Most Humans are neutral but some are evil or chaos. (Same as Norse.)
Weres are usually neutral but can be of any alignment. (They can transform between Human and Wolf form.)
Chaos Warriors were once Humans but followed a Chaos God and then go through mental/physical transformations.
Chaos Sorcerers are the same but know magic.
Ogres are neutral. They will usually work as mercenaries. (They will not work with Goblinoids.)
Dragons can be of any alignment.
Giant Wolves are evil.
Witch Lord would most likely be a Lichemaster. A powerful Wizard who used magic to keep his powers going beyond death. Can use Necromancy to summon an army. Usually evil but can be any alignment.
Mummies are neutral.
Skeletons and Zombies have same alignment as their Necromancer.
Ghosts can be any alignment.
The HQ Gargoyle is modeled after the Bloodthirster of Khorne which is a Greater Demon. The mechanics are more like a Gargoyle though which looks different.

Mentor would just be a powerful Wizard and Zargon would most likely be a Chaos Sorcerer possibly turned to a Daemon Prince.
Grimdead could be a minor Chaos God. (There are thousands.)
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » Saturday April 27th, 2024 8:49pm

j_dean80 wrote:Fimir are evil. (Not a Goblinoid race.)


But sometimes they're green, good enough for me. HeroQuest doesn't say they're goblinoid, they just use green plastic and sometimes the creatures work together.

So we have several "neutral" characters. Can you explain to me what Warhammer means by "neutral"? Does that mean that the player can play this character however they want (doing "good" or "evil" actions as they see fit or taking one path or the other)? Or does it just mean they don't choose one "side" or the other in the war against Chaos? For many years I have been told that Warhammer is a dark, gritty world (the lore is just an excuse to explain why your two big armies are fighting each other on the table; and still not quite so over the top pessimistic or nihilistic as 40K) while HeroQuest is more... heroic, or optimistic.

Can a neutral character fight alongside a "good" character in a mission? I heard about Chaos dwarfs. So it seems like there are good and bad of many different "races" in Warhammer fantasy. So that seems to indicate it's compatible with HeroQuest where most are not depicted as only one or the other (maybe there are no "good guy" undeads, although there are good spirits).

Ogres are neutral. They will usually work as mercenaries. (They will not work with Goblinoids.)


What if they pay well? Then again, the Ogres in HeroQuest are being influenced by magic (but not such that if you kill the sorcerer they suddenly fight for your side, like some other characters in say MOTM). Is classic HeroQuest in need of changing to conform to Warhammer lore?

Mummies are neutral.


I'm surprised by this, but I guess that means they have free will, rather than being automatons controlled by evil magic. So you could have a Mummy hero?

Skeletons and Zombies have same alignment as their Necromancer.


I guess in HeroQuest we don't have any outright Necromancers, but there is that artifact called the "Bone Wand" that you can steal from the bad guys and use it to (once per quest) control Skeletons to attack enemies (or each other).

Mentor would just be a powerful Wizard and Zargon would most likely be a Chaos Sorcerer possibly turned to a Daemon Prince.
Grimdead could be a minor Chaos God. (There are thousands.)


I disagree with the idea that Grimdead and the "evil god" were intended as the same character in Japanese HeroQuest. Maybe it makes more sense in the original Japanese? We know that Zargon/Morcar isn't one of the interactable characters in any of the quests, though his influence is felt throughout. But I took it as the "evil god" is a character that Grimdead and his minions are trying to resurrect, similar to what happens with the Witch Lord and the Frozen Horror in their respective adventures (and the heroes have a convenient opportunity to destroy them before they reach their full power). But whoever he is, you're saying he could be an actual physical being in the world? I take it then that some of the chaos gods can assume physical form (I may need to re-read those sections as I thought those were just being treated as their minions).


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